PDA

View Full Version : Opinions/Advice '56 Champion 2dr.



Allan Songer
11-21-2007, 01:35 PM
I just looked at this 1956 Champion 2 dr. It's an original CA car and was last registered in 1966 (!). Unfortunately it has been sitting OUTSIDE for the last 30 years--about 15 years ago someone bought it and did a bit of body work. The windows were left down for 15 years and the floors have rotted from the inside OUT. The frame is solid, the rockers/sills are solid, even the fenders and trunk are pretty much rust free. The coral and white you see are the original paint.

I am a CA guy and rust really scares the snot out of me--are the holes in floors a REALLY big problem? Should I run away from this?

I passed on the '57 Scotsman a couple of months ago and regret it. I really want to build a hotrod out of one of these ugly ducklings and already have an original R1 motor.

I know that building a car like this will be a BAD financial decision, but I still have the itch.

I can get this car for less than $500. What do you guys think?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/runsgood99/Champion1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/runsgood99/Champion2.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/runsgood99/Champion3.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/runsgood99/Champion4.jpg

mbstude
11-21-2007, 01:48 PM
Go for it!:) That would really make a neat car, and that one is quite savable.
You California guys are wimps.. Most, if not all, of the Studes that my family has redone were nowhere near as solid as that one. ;)

Sounds like a plan, be sure to keep us updated on your progress. :D

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Drive_59020_small.jpg
Hey, It's a Drivers' Club!

mbstude
11-21-2007, 01:48 PM
Go for it!:) That would really make a neat car, and that one is quite savable.
You California guys are wimps.. Most, if not all, of the Studes that my family has redone were nowhere near as solid as that one. ;)

Sounds like a plan, be sure to keep us updated on your progress. :D

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Drive_59020_small.jpg
Hey, It's a Drivers' Club!

ST2DE5
11-21-2007, 02:15 PM
I have a 56 Commander 2 door. I wouldn't really call it a ugly duckling. After they are fixed up they look neat. All the floors pans are available. I found a bunch of NOS parts at SASCO. I was suprised to find so many. Just my 2 cents I think they look better all one color. Mine is baby blue.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s197/wagon56/MoparMeet2.jpg
7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2
As soon as you find a product you like they will stop making it.

ST2DE5
11-21-2007, 02:15 PM
I have a 56 Commander 2 door. I wouldn't really call it a ugly duckling. After they are fixed up they look neat. All the floors pans are available. I found a bunch of NOS parts at SASCO. I was suprised to find so many. Just my 2 cents I think they look better all one color. Mine is baby blue.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s197/wagon56/MoparMeet2.jpg
7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2
As soon as you find a product you like they will stop making it.

studegary
11-21-2007, 02:30 PM
That car doesn't look bad to me. Even if the car was free, it wouldn't pay to rebuild or restore it for resale. If this is what you want, go for it.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
11-21-2007, 02:30 PM
That car doesn't look bad to me. Even if the car was free, it wouldn't pay to rebuild or restore it for resale. If this is what you want, go for it.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

bams50
11-21-2007, 03:03 PM
I don't get what's scary about floor rust- it's just metal, and they make that every day! Being a CA car, I'd look closely at the roof, along the edges; this is a problem with a lot of CA cars, depending where they're from. This rust is MUCH harder to fix correctly than floors...

If I was within say 300 miles or so of it, for $500 I'd grab it in a minute- a no-brainer!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-21-2007, 03:03 PM
I don't get what's scary about floor rust- it's just metal, and they make that every day! Being a CA car, I'd look closely at the roof, along the edges; this is a problem with a lot of CA cars, depending where they're from. This rust is MUCH harder to fix correctly than floors...

If I was within say 300 miles or so of it, for $500 I'd grab it in a minute- a no-brainer!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Michidan
11-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I've done the floors on one before. The panels themselves are not so tough. Hardtops and converts have extra troughs underneath and then it really get nasty. I do not believe this car would have those.
I would be much more concerned about what lurks behind the 1/2 done bodywork along the sides. Check closely where primer is found.

FWIW - I think the 56 sedans are way under-rated. Nice car.

Dan
52 hardtop
www.studebakerhardtop.com

Michidan
11-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I've done the floors on one before. The panels themselves are not so tough. Hardtops and converts have extra troughs underneath and then it really get nasty. I do not believe this car would have those.
I would be much more concerned about what lurks behind the 1/2 done bodywork along the sides. Check closely where primer is found.

FWIW - I think the 56 sedans are way under-rated. Nice car.

Dan
52 hardtop
www.studebakerhardtop.com

bams50
11-21-2007, 03:39 PM
There won't be any issues under that primer, I can tell from the picture. At most would be a dent not roughed out well enough, maybe a little perforation along the bottom edge.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-21-2007, 03:39 PM
There won't be any issues under that primer, I can tell from the picture. At most would be a dent not roughed out well enough, maybe a little perforation along the bottom edge.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Allan Songer
11-21-2007, 03:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

There won't be any issues under that primer, I can tell from the picture. At most would be a dent not roughed out well enough, maybe a little perforation along the bottom edge.


Bingo! I dont think there's ANY rust in the doors or fenders--just some half-ass shade tree body work. The car really did rust from the inside out.

There is NO rust in the roof.

How did you replace the floors? Did you pull the body from the frame--I'm guessing that is the proper way to do it and it sure seems like A LOT of work. The floor panels will cost a couple of hundred more than the car! Crazy. I know this will be a money pit from which I can never crawl out. Even without a paint job, I'm looking at 10-12 grand to get the darn thing on the road (including rebuilding the R1 and upgrading to disc brakes and V8 suspension with sway bars, etc.) Pretty stupid!

The hood has sublte "kinks" in the rear corners near the hinges. This too looks like a tough repair--I would think you'd have to fabricate some sort of corner stiffener . . .

I'm on the fence as far as buying this one--the seller is letting me think about it through the weekend. He's moving to Ohio and if it doesn't sell he's going to scrap it by the first of the year (or so he says).

Allan Songer
11-21-2007, 03:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

There won't be any issues under that primer, I can tell from the picture. At most would be a dent not roughed out well enough, maybe a little perforation along the bottom edge.


Bingo! I dont think there's ANY rust in the doors or fenders--just some half-ass shade tree body work. The car really did rust from the inside out.

There is NO rust in the roof.

How did you replace the floors? Did you pull the body from the frame--I'm guessing that is the proper way to do it and it sure seems like A LOT of work. The floor panels will cost a couple of hundred more than the car! Crazy. I know this will be a money pit from which I can never crawl out. Even without a paint job, I'm looking at 10-12 grand to get the darn thing on the road (including rebuilding the R1 and upgrading to disc brakes and V8 suspension with sway bars, etc.) Pretty stupid!

The hood has sublte "kinks" in the rear corners near the hinges. This too looks like a tough repair--I would think you'd have to fabricate some sort of corner stiffener . . .

I'm on the fence as far as buying this one--the seller is letting me think about it through the weekend. He's moving to Ohio and if it doesn't sell he's going to scrap it by the first of the year (or so he says).

bams50
11-21-2007, 07:56 PM
No need to pull the body from the frame to fix floors! You can buy Classic's repair panels, or make some from sheet metal- not easy, but not the end of the world. As for the hood, that's another simple repair we can walk you through.

The real concern to me is the beginnings of a pattern here: You find a car, say you want to build it, solicit advice, and vascillate- ultimately passing. You say you "regret" passing on the Scotsman, but here's another good candidate for what you want to do, at a more than reasonable price, and you sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of it- or trying to get us to do so. Like the Scotsman, this car's more than worthy of doing. And also like the Scotsman, it's a relatively easy restore and fits your stated criteria...

I think the bigger point is if you really want to tackle this type/size of project... if you do, go to it, and we'll be behind you! If not, decide that and move on. There's no wrong answer! And if you decide no, it appears that if you change your mind, there will always be another car when you're ready! I absolutely could be off-base, the question did come to my mind...

If I could get this car to NY for $1000, I'd buy it in a minute, and save it for a future project[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-21-2007, 07:56 PM
No need to pull the body from the frame to fix floors! You can buy Classic's repair panels, or make some from sheet metal- not easy, but not the end of the world. As for the hood, that's another simple repair we can walk you through.

The real concern to me is the beginnings of a pattern here: You find a car, say you want to build it, solicit advice, and vascillate- ultimately passing. You say you "regret" passing on the Scotsman, but here's another good candidate for what you want to do, at a more than reasonable price, and you sound like you're trying to talk yourself out of it- or trying to get us to do so. Like the Scotsman, this car's more than worthy of doing. And also like the Scotsman, it's a relatively easy restore and fits your stated criteria...

I think the bigger point is if you really want to tackle this type/size of project... if you do, go to it, and we'll be behind you! If not, decide that and move on. There's no wrong answer! And if you decide no, it appears that if you change your mind, there will always be another car when you're ready! I absolutely could be off-base, the question did come to my mind...

If I could get this car to NY for $1000, I'd buy it in a minute, and save it for a future project[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

rockne10
11-21-2007, 09:14 PM
Yes, the floor panels from Classic Enterprises will cost $528 with shipping. Many a worse projects have been tackled. I say go for it. Those slab-sided sedans have a definite elegance when done simply and tastefully and, ya gotta love those exhaust ports out the rear bumper.

rockne10
11-21-2007, 09:14 PM
Yes, the floor panels from Classic Enterprises will cost $528 with shipping. Many a worse projects have been tackled. I say go for it. Those slab-sided sedans have a definite elegance when done simply and tastefully and, ya gotta love those exhaust ports out the rear bumper.

Dick Clemens
11-21-2007, 09:46 PM
In my day we would have gotten the top off of a junker and cut to fix spotted a few places, sealed it the best we could and down te road we went. If its not to be a show car then do it the cheapest way you can.

studedick from the lower Ozarks

Dick Clemens
11-21-2007, 09:46 PM
In my day we would have gotten the top off of a junker and cut to fix spotted a few places, sealed it the best we could and down te road we went. If its not to be a show car then do it the cheapest way you can.

studedick from the lower Ozarks

StudeRich
11-21-2007, 10:01 PM
Allan, I can tell you this, 2 dr. Sedans do not come along every day for under $1000.00 It actually looks pretty straight! Go for it buddy! [^]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
11-21-2007, 10:01 PM
Allan, I can tell you this, 2 dr. Sedans do not come along every day for under $1000.00 It actually looks pretty straight! Go for it buddy! [^]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Allan Songer
11-21-2007, 10:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


I think the bigger point is if you really want to tackle this type/size of project... if you do, go to it, and we'll be behind you! If not, decide that and move on. There's no wrong answer! And if you decide no, it appears that if you change your mind, there will always be another car when you're ready! I absolutely could be off-base, the question did come to my mind...

If I could get this car to NY for $1000, I'd buy it in a minute, and save it for a future project[8D]



If I lived on a lot bigger than 50 x 100 (I'm at the beach) or if I hadn't LOST 12 parking spaces at work when the city came by and FORCED me to landscape our parking lot earlier this year, then I would have bought the Scotsman in a heartbeat. I have NOWHERE to park the darn thing until I start the project and I'm a good six months away from that (not a money thing, there's another car half done in my garage--1952 MG TD-- that I HAVE to get going before I tacklle this one).

I priced storage fees, but at $100/month it doesn't make ANY sense. I THINK I've found someone who will let me park the car on his lot for the next few months--during that time I can at least do the floors, gather parts, build the motor, etc.

I'm buying the car--I'll pay the man on Monday and he told me I can leave it there for at least a month or so. Once I have the pink slip, I will then solicit MAJOR help from you all in tackling the floor replacement--this is something I haven't even CONSIDERED doing before!!

Allan Songer
11-21-2007, 10:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


I think the bigger point is if you really want to tackle this type/size of project... if you do, go to it, and we'll be behind you! If not, decide that and move on. There's no wrong answer! And if you decide no, it appears that if you change your mind, there will always be another car when you're ready! I absolutely could be off-base, the question did come to my mind...

If I could get this car to NY for $1000, I'd buy it in a minute, and save it for a future project[8D]



If I lived on a lot bigger than 50 x 100 (I'm at the beach) or if I hadn't LOST 12 parking spaces at work when the city came by and FORCED me to landscape our parking lot earlier this year, then I would have bought the Scotsman in a heartbeat. I have NOWHERE to park the darn thing until I start the project and I'm a good six months away from that (not a money thing, there's another car half done in my garage--1952 MG TD-- that I HAVE to get going before I tacklle this one).

I priced storage fees, but at $100/month it doesn't make ANY sense. I THINK I've found someone who will let me park the car on his lot for the next few months--during that time I can at least do the floors, gather parts, build the motor, etc.

I'm buying the car--I'll pay the man on Monday and he told me I can leave it there for at least a month or so. Once I have the pink slip, I will then solicit MAJOR help from you all in tackling the floor replacement--this is something I haven't even CONSIDERED doing before!!

bams50
11-21-2007, 10:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Clemens

In my day we would have gotten the top off of a junker

That's the way I do it! Station wagons are the best- bigger piece!

If you want a show-car, get the CE pans; if not, just trim the rust back to solid metal, cut a patch to fit, and weld in... coat with POR-15, and seal with silicone caulk. Good for 40 more years!

Here's my Lark wagon floors I did this year:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR001.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR002.jpg



http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR005.jpg

I welded most, and finished with brass where the metal was a little thin.

Again, you can get a lot more correct, but a 60 Lark wagon driver doesn't warrant all that cost and labor.

Besides, no one will ever see the repair!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR003.jpg

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-21-2007, 10:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Clemens

In my day we would have gotten the top off of a junker

That's the way I do it! Station wagons are the best- bigger piece!

If you want a show-car, get the CE pans; if not, just trim the rust back to solid metal, cut a patch to fit, and weld in... coat with POR-15, and seal with silicone caulk. Good for 40 more years!

Here's my Lark wagon floors I did this year:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR001.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR002.jpg



http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR005.jpg

I welded most, and finished with brass where the metal was a little thin.

Again, you can get a lot more correct, but a 60 Lark wagon driver doesn't warrant all that cost and labor.

Besides, no one will ever see the repair!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/STUDEFLOOR003.jpg

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

rockne10
11-22-2007, 08:23 PM
quote:seal with silicone caulk
Bob, I haven't had much luck using silicone. It will peel in short order and is not a friend to paint. I would recommend 3M Flexi-clear. It's specifically for auto body seams. They also make one, I think it's called Hard n Fast, but it has a tendency to shrink.

rockne10
11-22-2007, 08:23 PM
quote:seal with silicone caulk
Bob, I haven't had much luck using silicone. It will peel in short order and is not a friend to paint. I would recommend 3M Flexi-clear. It's specifically for auto body seams. They also make one, I think it's called Hard n Fast, but it has a tendency to shrink.

Rosstude
11-23-2007, 12:52 PM
Allan,
I'd say "go for it", it looks solid from here. If you still need storage, and Riverside is not too far, your welcome to some outside space I have. Off the topic a bit, but not too far, I was helping a neighbor today, and here is a parts car that has to go due to the lot being sold,
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/Picture013.jpg
Its got a title, but no engine,trans, dash or interior, but is rust free, and could be had for a under $200.
Anyway, Allan I have a new drivers side floorpan from classic I am not going to need, contact me if interested.
I like the looks of the 2 door, nice sleeper, and nice driver.

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

Rosstude
11-23-2007, 12:52 PM
Allan,
I'd say "go for it", it looks solid from here. If you still need storage, and Riverside is not too far, your welcome to some outside space I have. Off the topic a bit, but not too far, I was helping a neighbor today, and here is a parts car that has to go due to the lot being sold,
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/Picture013.jpg
Its got a title, but no engine,trans, dash or interior, but is rust free, and could be had for a under $200.
Anyway, Allan I have a new drivers side floorpan from classic I am not going to need, contact me if interested.
I like the looks of the 2 door, nice sleeper, and nice driver.

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

Allan Songer
11-23-2007, 04:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Allan,
I'd say "go for it", it looks solid from here. If you still need storage, and Riverside is not too far, your welcome to some outside space I have.

I am going for it. I'm meeting the owner at his lot tomorrow or Monday to seal the deal.

I just sent you an email . . .

Allan Songer
11-23-2007, 04:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Allan,
I'd say "go for it", it looks solid from here. If you still need storage, and Riverside is not too far, your welcome to some outside space I have.

I am going for it. I'm meeting the owner at his lot tomorrow or Monday to seal the deal.

I just sent you an email . . .

bams50
11-23-2007, 05:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Allan Songer
[br Once I have the pink slip, I will then solicit MAJOR help from you all in tackling the floor replacement--this is something I haven't even CONSIDERED doing before!!




There you go! As is always the case, I'll be glad to help in any way I can; I have lots of experience in this type of work. I'll help you through it, step by step, if you need!

Good luck, good for you, and nice work Ross for offering the storage![^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-23-2007, 05:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Allan Songer
[br Once I have the pink slip, I will then solicit MAJOR help from you all in tackling the floor replacement--this is something I haven't even CONSIDERED doing before!!




There you go! As is always the case, I'll be glad to help in any way I can; I have lots of experience in this type of work. I'll help you through it, step by step, if you need!

Good luck, good for you, and nice work Ross for offering the storage![^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Allan Songer
11-24-2007, 10:34 AM
quote:There you go! As is always the case, I'll be glad to help in any way I can; I have lots of experience in this type of work. I'll help you through it, step by step, if you need!

Good luck, good for you, and nice work Ross for offering the storage![^]



I am SURE I'll be in touch before I dive in!!

Thanks, buddy!

Allan Songer
11-24-2007, 10:34 AM
quote:There you go! As is always the case, I'll be glad to help in any way I can; I have lots of experience in this type of work. I'll help you through it, step by step, if you need!

Good luck, good for you, and nice work Ross for offering the storage![^]



I am SURE I'll be in touch before I dive in!!

Thanks, buddy!

Allan Songer
11-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Update: $400 changed hands this afternoon and I am now the owner of this "project" car. I have the pink slip in my hand and I'll heading over pick up the car on a pal's trailer on Thursday morning.

Wish me luck--I think I'm gonna need it!

Allan Songer
11-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Update: $400 changed hands this afternoon and I am now the owner of this "project" car. I have the pink slip in my hand and I'll heading over pick up the car on a pal's trailer on Thursday morning.

Wish me luck--I think I'm gonna need it!

bams50
11-27-2007, 04:21 PM
No luck needed- just the effort!;)

Never fear... the Forum's here!!

Gee- maybe I should come out West and help Steinkamp straighten out the Lark, then head down and weld up your floors:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
11-27-2007, 04:21 PM
No luck needed- just the effort!;)

Never fear... the Forum's here!!

Gee- maybe I should come out West and help Steinkamp straighten out the Lark, then head down and weld up your floors:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Allan Songer
11-27-2007, 05:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

No luck needed- just the effort!;)

Never fear... the Forum's here!!

Gee- maybe I should come out West and help Steinkamp straighten out the Lark, then head down and weld up your floors:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131


Well, it sure is nice and warm here in CA in January!! Might be a nice break for you seeing that January in your neck of the woods is pretty darn cold!

Allan Songer
11-27-2007, 05:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

No luck needed- just the effort!;)

Never fear... the Forum's here!!

Gee- maybe I should come out West and help Steinkamp straighten out the Lark, then head down and weld up your floors:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131


Well, it sure is nice and warm here in CA in January!! Might be a nice break for you seeing that January in your neck of the woods is pretty darn cold!