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59 Lark VIII 2DHTP Wanting that "Gasser" look without cuttting

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  • Frame / Springs: 59 Lark VIII 2DHTP Wanting that "Gasser" look without cuttting

    My son and I are working on what was MY first car, and I am transitioning it to him. He wants to have the car have that "Gasser" look (I do too, but...). I want the look, but I don't want to cut up the car and change the suspension, brakes, and everything else to get there. I currently have a numbers-matching car, but it is far from perfect. (85K miles, with some rust on the rockers, floorboards, and a partially caved-in roof thanks to a tree.) I don't want to butcher the car because I have discovered it is a bit rare (I have only ever personally seen one other 59 2DHTP and it was a basket case.)

    How can I raise the front to give it a MUCH higher profile, while maintaining the A-frames and some alignment adjustability? I can have new rear springs custom made to be re-arched, and overload leafs, etc. to get the rear up.

    I have looked at replacing the stock worn-out springs in the front with the Olds rear springs, but that will only get me back to stock height. Any word from the old-timers on what was done way back when? i already have the spring spacers and other stuff in there, and I do NOT want those, as I view them as unsafe. I am open to having custom front springs made, but what rate, height, etc do I use? Will I be able to get it aligned?

    What about changing spindles? There are some that do "drop spindles" but what about "raising spindles"? Are there particular cars that I can pull parts from that I can use to modify? Do I cut and weld a set of replacement spindles and brackets? Or is my only choice to remove the front and weld on leaf springs and a truck front axle?

    We want really wide, low-profile rear tires without cutting the rear fenders. We want tall skinnies on the front. He liked the look of the 62 Champ grille, so that's what we installed.

    Maybe after that, we need to get with Mr. Harbit to figure out how to tune the Studebaker engine for real HP!

    I am looking for opinions, good and bad.

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    Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
    1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

  • #2
    Couple of thoughts here...try using a taller (longer) spring in the front end, but you don't want to go too crazy...remember that the alignment of the tires change as the suspension moves, so if the car is riding higher in the front end the alignment will need to be re-calibrated. Now I'm not sure if there is enough adjustment in the stock studebaker design to allow proper alignment when the car is riding at mostly on the 'extension' side of the normal arc of travel. From what I gather camber adjustment is pretty limited in the factory design. If you lower the rear ride height and slightly raise the front end you may achieve a moderate gasser stance. You want to go with a low profile rear tire, but that is rather anti-gasser in the classic sense, as back in the day the slicks were rather narrow and tall, not short and wide. IIRC, I think it was Kenny Bernstien sp? who ran a c/k gasser with a nose-bleed front end that was achieved with long springs in the front suspension. While the car was a true gasser back in the day there was reference that spooky handling was experienced on the strip...makes one wonder if you'll experience the same?? Maybe consult the 'experts' on the HAMB...I'm sure they are more in the know. If it was my car, I'd be making the conversion to solid front axle with either single transverse leaf with radius rods etc, or parallel leafs. Lots of info on the web to do conversions...often wondered if the front axle/springs/linkage from a Champ would work on a Lark...may be the CASO way of doing the job? good luck, Junior
    sigpic
    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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    • #3
      Thanks junior!

      That's the kind of info I'm looking for and what I've been thinking. I was searching around today and saw that the front axle of a Champ may just be the ticket. The brakes would match, the wheel bolt pattern would match, etc. I can possibly make it so the spring pads bolt-on rather than weld, but we'll see there.

      Thanks for the info on the tall skinny on the rear. I'll do more research on the Kenny Bernstein info and what he had done. I'll also register on the HAMB and see what transpires.
      Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
      1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BILT4ME View Post
        Thanks junior!

        That's the kind of info I'm looking for and what I've been thinking. I was searching around today and saw that the front axle of a Champ may just be the ticket. The brakes would match, the wheel bolt pattern would match, etc. I can possibly make it so the spring pads bolt-on rather than weld, but we'll see there.
        Not quite! Your Lark will have a 5x4.5" wheel pattern. A Champ has a 5x5" pattern.

        Asking on the HAMB is a good idea. That forum is a huge treasure trove of hod rod knowledge.

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        • #5
          Darn! I thought the 5 bolt pattern was the same!

          Maybe I could change the spindles?

          I'd love to keep it all Studebaker, but I don't want to sacrifice a Champ (unless it's in REALLY bad shape) to make mine more fun.

          Thanks Guys!

          Keep the good info coming!
          Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
          1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

          Comment


          • #6
            No, there's not enough adjustment in the Stude front suspension to raise the front end to "gasser" height.

            The other concern is the "gasser" look is 1/4-mile-only. Literally everything done to raise the center of gravity to increase weight transfer off the starting line to increase rear tire traction totally FUBARs a car for street driving. It won't handle as well, won't ride as well, won't stop as well.

            I helped restore a Falcon gasser with a beam axle conversion. It's a car of about the same wheelbase and weight as a Lark. Jacked up tall, with slicks on the rear and skinny tires up front, on the strip, it left the line like a rocket and pulled incredible 60' times. On the highway, it was literally scary and dangerous.

            As always, your/son's car, your money, your decision. Just drive one with the modifications you're suggesting before building it.

            jack vines
            PackardV8

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            • #7
              Thank you PackardV8!

              That is sound advice. I want to thoroughly review the plan before we jump into it. In the mean time, we will upgrade it to NOS condition and make it very driveable. Once we go down the Gasser rabbit hole, I'm afraid there would never be any coming back....

              Next step is to rebuild the existing front and rear suspension and steering in order to make it ride and drive correctly. Then we can decide what to do as we drive it around.

              I'm sure the modifications would make it rough riding and "squirrelly" to drive if we go to the gasser thing. If we wanted to make it "period correct" then we would also strip most of the interior which kind of defeats the "family" setting of doing this.....

              Keep the ideas and opinions coming! I REALLY appreciate the guidance here! I'm not afraid to do either one, but I want to fully scrutinize each version, then set the plan in motion.
              Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
              1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

              Comment


              • #8
                I think the front end you may be looking for would be found under an early Ford Econoline Van. Ford bolt pattern, same as STude. Springs are already arched for the weight, etc. Now then, that being said, I would have to concur with those above who are trying to deter you from a "full on" Gasser. But I think the look could be attained without going to extremes. Squat the rear end so you don't have to have the front end up to the clouds. Use conventional front brakes in lieu of no brakes, as Gassers sometimes did. Use a slightly wider, road friendlier tire up front which will give you some stability and braking traction. That way you get a sorta best of both worlds type of car. Make it loud with the cutouts in the exhaust for the shows, but slightly less loud through noisy mufflers for the street. And if you don't really want to drag race it, get a cam profile that sounds lumpy at idle and gear it for the "leaping" ability that a Gasser should have. Sounds like you're going to have a ball.
                I, for one, would love to see the two of you build the dream and enjoy the ride.
                sals54

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                • #9
                  forgetful or what?...wheels 777 has that cool lark with the BBC and solid front axle that he`s done drag week with. Not too often he posts here, but perhaps PM him?
                  sigpic
                  1954 C5 Hamilton car.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BILT4ME View Post
                    I'll do more research on the Kenny Bernstein info and what he had done. I'll also register on the HAMB and see what transpires.
                    I had mentioned in another thread that I had a pic of a 53 Stude that Bill Clements, owner of Chevy Craft in Lubbock had found and restored. He had...


                    I re-read the article on the Kenny Bernstein gasser (Elapsed Times spring 2013) and there is no mention of spooky handling...so I must have read it somewhere else. I go through a lot of retro car magazines like Hot Rod Deluxe, Rod and Kulture etc. and perhaps I read it somewhere else, and perhaps it wasn't even the Bernstein car, maybe another period gasser with raised stock front suspension. Sorry for mis-leading you if you've done any research up to this point. I know the source will come back to me...just brain farting now. cheers, junior
                    sigpic
                    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey, Built 4 Me it's sure nice to know another owner of a 59 Lark 2dr. Hardtop. They sure do seem to be a rare bird. Mine is the Regal model. I have no expertise in "Gassing" anything but I commend you for not wanting to "chop" or alter the car's originality. Stick with that plan! As my son put it after driving mine: "It's like a little hot rod in it's original configuration. She's got a lot of get up and go."Good Luck to you and your son on your project.....T.J.

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                      • #12
                        Others have advised well on the modifications. I will just add that your car is really not that hard to replace or super valuable. So if you want to modify it, go for it, and enjoy!
                        Proud NON-CASO

                        I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                        If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                        GOD BLESS AMERICA

                        Ephesians 6:10-17
                        Romans 15:13
                        Deuteronomy 31:6
                        Proverbs 28:1

                        Illegitimi non carborundum

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                        • #13
                          Wow! Thanks for all the input! I appreciate the time each of you places toward assistance!

                          @sals54: I like the idea from the Econoline van. I am disappointed because after living in the city for 25+ years, I had to move off the farm and get rid of all my extra cars, toys, etc. I had in my posession, a 68 Econoline van, a 53 Chevy Pickup, and a 52 Chevy truck that I could have pulled the front springs and axle from any of those! Whatever we do, it MUST be streetable for distance driving. We are not going to do all-out racing. Just kind of going for the look, something a bit "spicier" than the vanilla Lark.

                          @junior: Thanks for the additonal info. I have looked at wheels 777 Lark and that's kind of what we are looking at, but I want to see if we can achieve it without the leaf spring mods first. We like the Lark Ness Monster, too! I looked up the Kenny Berenstein info and didn't really find anything describing the handling. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

                          @T.J. lavallee: It's nice to hear of at least ONE other 59 2DHTP! (Sending friend request...) I personally have only seen one other and it was ready for the crusher (in my opinion) but it sold at auction for $485 and it was in ROUGH shape. The fact that my car is all numbers matching, makes it valuable....sort of. Not in real money.... It's more sentimental value to me really.

                          As @Bob Andrews states: "I will just add that your car is really not that hard to replace or super valuable.", he's correct. If I went to the point of making my car a full-on original restoration and spent $30K to get it right....It would still only be worth about $12K-$15K. So, if I look at the $$$....I should modify it to exactly what we want and make it what WE want it to be. It would probably be worth more as a street rod than an original (assuming we could find someone that wanted a Studebaker Lark street rod). I am REALLY nervous about doing this, as I hate to destroy something that is already 56 years old and all original to cut and weld on it to make it a custom. I am NOT a "purist" and I LOVE street rods, I just have a really hard time cutting up MY all-original first-car, numbers matching relic to turn it into a street rod, even if it's not perfect. Maybe Bob Andrews knows of a stash of 59 2DHTP someplace?????

                          So, what we will probably do, is to take it back to semi-original and make it VERY driveable with NOS parts or whatever replacement parts necessary, not worrying about being "Studebaker correct" on every little thing. We'll continue the research while we do this and enjoy driving it. The key will be reliable, look "cool" (translated to "different"), and drive it. One thing is for sure: If we build a car, it will be driven. No "show car" for us. We want to enjoy it!

                          There were 7996 Studebaker Lark 2DHTP made. I don't have the numbers for how many were V8's. All were Regal trims. My car is only missing a few options (windshield washers, Twin Traction, lay flat front seats, and back-up lights) I am adding the lay-flat front seats, and I have added a 4V carburetor from a 1955. I am tracking down a rear axle for the Twin Traction.

                          My options are:
                          Regal trim
                          Automatic Transmission
                          259 CID V8
                          AM Radio with front and rear speakers
                          Clock
                          Power Steering
                          Paint Color: Hawaiian Seafoam Green

                          Thank you all again!
                          Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
                          1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

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