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kustommusic
05-19-2015, 09:03 PM
Hello fellow SDC members, Newbie here with some questions. I have a '62 Lark with a (?) 259 in it. But there are no numbers on the pad. I'm told it is a replacement engine, but without any identification how do I tell?:confused: I would also like to verify the cubic inches (without a tear down).
One last question; My Lark has the two speed auto trans. and I would like to service the transmission, What type of ATF is recommended?

bezhawk
05-19-2015, 09:21 PM
Pull a spark plug, and put a long screwdriver in the hole. Turn over the engine and note when it bottoms out. If it is 3.5" stroke then you have the two fifty nine.
If it's longer, then its a larger engine.
Type "F" fluid is used in the "3" speed automatic. Studebaker never used a 2 speed auto [except for the 56 Golden Hawk with the Packard ?Ultramatic.
If you notice the quadrant has a "L" on the indicator. Start out in this, upshift to d, and the transmission will then shift to 2nd, and then high gear.
You may be confused, because in "D" the car starts out in 2nd, and make the one shift to high.

StudeRich
05-19-2015, 09:31 PM
Since the Studebaker Borg Warner Flight-O-Matic Transmissions are very similar to Ford-O-Matics, I prefer the recommended fluid for them the Type "F" or "FA", the Dexron II, III or whatever will also work with more of a slip shift than the "Firm" shift of the Type F.

Your Trans. is a THREE Speed! You simply have to use "L" to get Low, it can be manually shifted by starting in L, when "wound out" in Low 25-30 MPH, shift to D, Pull it right back to L to lock Second, holding Pedal to the floor, and shift to D at 60-70 or your choice speed. :!:

It is best to Drain the Complete Trans. including the Torque Converter, yes there IS a drain plug, spin the engine around until it lines up with the Hole in the converter housing and drain it all then you will not have mixed Fluids. warm after driving is best.

Skip Lackie
05-20-2015, 10:38 AM
In case you didn't know: engine serial number locations are explained at the bottom of this table.

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/V8EngineID.asp

Replacement engines came without serial numbers. The dealer was supposed to stamp the original engine number on the pad of the replacement engine, but it was rarely done.

PackardV8
05-20-2015, 10:54 AM
Pull a spark plug, and put a long screwdriver in the hole. Turn over the engine and note when it bottoms out. If it is 3.5" stroke then you have the two fifty nine.

Of course you meant 3.25" stroke and somehow dropped the 2.

Look down the spark plug holes. If flat top pistons, usually a 224", 232" or 259"; if dished, usually a 289".

jack vines

kustommusic
05-20-2015, 08:33 PM
OK!! Thanks for the "schooling" on my questions. I had no idea I had to shift to low to locate 1st. gear then manually shift up. I've actually owned a handful of Studebakers in my time but now that I think about it they were all sticks, even my current '63 Lark 2dr (four speed). Thanks to all that took time to reply. :!!: Kustommusic

bezhawk
05-20-2015, 09:05 PM
Of course you meant 3.25" stroke and somehow dropped the 2.

Look down the spark plug holes. If flat top pistons, usually a 224", 232" or 259"; if dished, usually a 289".

jack vines
You're right. My numbers are fubared since I spilled on the keyboard. Don't forget the R series engines also had flat top pistons.

PackardV8
05-21-2015, 08:11 AM
Then, there's the sleezeball who sold me a "P" block with 289" dished pistons hung on a 259" crank. That's why I say "usually" and agree measuring the stroke is best.

Of course, as long as we're discussing what one might see looking through the spark plug holes, there's the very (un)likely possibility of seeing R4 popups.

jack vines

BILT4ME
05-22-2015, 05:18 PM
I have a 1962 259 V8 and I have my original 1959 259 V8 for my 1959 Lark VII. In my garage, I have what I have been told is a 289 crank (unknown year) and (8) pistons with conrods.

1) Can you install the 289 crank, pistons and conrods into the 259 block to make a 289?
2) Are there certain years that should or should NOT do it on?
3) I want to "optimize" my performance in my V8 engine. Are there aftermarket camshafts available? Are there special grinds I can have done to and existing cam?
4) I am open to porting/polishing/matching my heads/intake/exhaust for optimum performance. Any suggestions here?
5) Is Ted Harbit the authority for this information?
6) I assume if I do this, I better install a Dana 44 TT rear axle or make a custom Ford 9"?
7) Is there a better block to use or start with due to oil filtering capabilities? (1959=no oil filter, 1962= partial flow , ????=Full Flow)
8) How can I tell if the crank I have is actually a 289 and what it is from?

I have the A/T in this 2DHTP. It originally came with eh Dana 23 rear axle that wass exploded when I bought it 34 years ago. It has since gone through at least 4 more rear ends due to poor assembly, too heavy foot, and childhood ignorance. I am currently in the process of rebuilding a Dana 27 open diff to install in it (3.54:1) when it SHOULD have 3.31:1.

Lots more questions where these came from.....

Alan
05-22-2015, 05:32 PM
1) Yes, but.
2) ?
3) Yes, numerous.
4) I will let the guys that like to eat grit answer this one.
5) Ted is the authority but don't drive him nuts if you are not buying anything.
6) If going with the Dana 44 use a flanged axle like on 53-56 Ford Wagons.
7) 63-64 Full flow.
8) There are casting numbers on it and there is a chart around here to decipher it.

StudeRich
05-22-2015, 05:45 PM
Well Mark if you stick around here I am sure you will get them all and more answered, no problem glad to have you here.
The very best place to start learning is always getting the paper Books or ONE CD with all of this included:

'59-'64 Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog.
'59-'64 Studebaker Body Parts Catalog.
'59-'64 Studebaker Shop Manual.

Available at: http://studebakervendors.com

I can answer some now and others will help.

Yes you can install your 289 Crank and Pistons in the "V" serialized 259 Block, but of course it will need a full hone and Rings which may not work if the short stroke wear pattern is too deep, better yet re-bore with New +.030 289 Pistons and Rings.
The Connecting Rods are all the same in all V8's except 1964, Special Order, High Performance Jet Thrust R3 & R4 Engines.

When doing it this way you have an option for shallow dish or flat Top Pistons to increase the Compression as much as you can afford Fuel for, to simulate an Avanti R1 unsupercharged Engine with 10.25 to 1 stock flat tops, or 9.0 to 9.50 shallow dish.

As to which year block is better, it does not matter all '55 to '64 224, 259 & 289 Blocks will work fine as 289's or larger.
It is a matter of opinion if the later late '62 to '64 Full-Flow Oil Filter Blocks are better, they are good, but do not plan on a lot of Boring oversize because when going more than .060 oversize (sometimes even less), there are sometimes "breakthroughs" into the water jackets. The earlier Engines have better core centering than the full-flows.

Yes Ted Harbit is a good "go to Guy" for good high performace info, but the Parts you need like his R2+ Cam Re-grind and other Performance Parts come from Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker or other Studebaker Vendors at: http://studebakervendors.com

BILT4ME
05-26-2015, 05:56 PM
Thanks @Alan!

I appreciate the concise answers. These make sense to me. I will see if I can find the casting numbers on the crank and chase it down. I can certainly appreciate bugging someone and then not buying from them. That's just not the right thing to do. I have looked at a rear axle from a 1956 golden Hawk, but I'm not sure if the spring pads are in the same place or if the flange to flange dimensions are the same as my model 27. The axle I am seeing appears to be a flanged Dana 44 with an open diff and 3.07:1. I can easily find parts to fit a Dana 44 for R&P as well as aftermarket lunchbox lockers.

BILT4ME
05-26-2015, 06:05 PM
Thank you @StudeRich!

I have owned the factory set of books for over 15 years. I have "originals".

I thought the connecting rods were longer on the 289 to give it the displacement based on a longer throw on the 289 crankshaft? You're telling me that the only difference is the piston design? I think I'm missing something here.....bore x stroke x 8 = CID.

I currently have a 62 (I think a full-flow) engine in the car, but I have the original 259 that has no oil filter. I was curious which one I should consider rebuilding. There are compelling reasons here for both.

I have a set of pistons that are supposedly out of a 289. How can I tell the difference?

I will make it a point to speak with Ted Harbit as well as Phil Harris, and other vendors as listed.

I really appreciate the information!

I am still trying to navigate this site, as it is not as search-friendly (for me) as other sites I am on. I will be around for a while, and I will pass along all this information to my son as he learns to be part of the NEXT Studebaker generation.

StudeRich
05-26-2015, 07:27 PM
The reason the Rods in all V8's are ALL the same, is that Studebaker simply moved the Wrist Pin Location in the Pistons... DONE!

There is NOTHING, not Carb., Distributor, Heads, Intake, Fuel pump, Nothing different between 259 and the Standard Non-Avanti 289 except the Crank and Pistons!

The 289 Pistons are Dished, 259 are flat-top.

I believe that you will find that Ted H. does not have Parts for sale at all, except an odd part here and there, that is because his business was sold to Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker.

Most early '62 V8's would have the Partial Flow Spin-On type Oil Filter mounted on the Oil Filler Pipe, yours could have been removed or never ordered, the Bases are available New.

BILT4ME
05-27-2015, 12:39 PM
I was under my car this weekend and saw that the oil filter is installed from the bottom (like a Chevrolet engine) and not on the Oil Filler Pipe, so the current engine must be a full-flow block, whereas, my original engine had NO oil filter. I have (2) of the partial flow oil filler pipes in my parts stash. I wonder if my engine is actually a 1963. I'll need to confirm some numbers.

I must look at the crank and pistons in storage to see what they really are.

Thanks @StudeRich! You have an amazing amount of information!

Now....Will a Dana 44 rear axle with finned brake drums (I think a flanged axle) from a 1956 Golden Hawk bolt up directly under a 1959 Lark VIII that originally had a Dana 23 with tapered axles? I do not know the brake drum diameter on either, for sure.

studegary
05-27-2015, 12:45 PM
I think I'm missing something here.....bore x stroke x 8 = CID.



For the sake of those reading this in the future - It should be: bore area X stroke X 8 = displacement (for a V8). The bore is a linear measurement. You need to convert it to an area (square 1/2 the bore and mutiply by pi).

BILT4ME
05-27-2015, 12:51 PM
Thank you for the clarification!
You are absolutely correct. I made an assumption that the person reading knew it was bore area.

PackardV8
05-27-2015, 01:13 PM
Now....Will a Dana 44 rear axle with finned brake drums (I think a flanged axle) from a 1956 Golden Hawk bolt up directly under a 1959 Lark VIII that originally had a Dana 23 with tapered axles? I do not know the brake drum diameter on either, for sure.

Yes, it will bolt in a '59 Lark.

No, the '56 is a tapered axle.

Maybe, determine the gear ratio. Automatics were 3.07 and overdrives were 3.90; major difference.

jack vines

StudeRich
05-27-2015, 01:54 PM
/Cut/Now....Will a Dana 44 rear axle with finned brake drums (I think a flanged axle) from a 1956 Golden Hawk bolt up directly under a 1959 Lark VIII that originally had a Dana 23 with tapered axles? I do not know the brake drum diameter on either, for sure.

It looks like Jack took care of the "will it fit" question, however only late 1965 and 1966 Canadian Studebakers had Flanged Axles, unless someone has been changing things. Pull a hubcap and if you find a Axle Nut, it's not Flanged.

V8 Cars had 10 Inch rear Drums, the Finned 10 Inch Drums were on 289 Engined Cars, only '63 to '66's would have the option of Non-self energizing Rear Brakes with Finned 11 Inch drums used with front Discs.

The 6 Cyl. Cars have the tiny 9 Inch smooth rear Drums, but a Dana 23 or 27 could have either 9 or 10 depending on if it was installed in a 6 or a 8 Cyl. Car.

When you change from a 23/27 to a 44 Axle, you need the larger "Model 44" "U" Bolts and matching Spring Plates also a shorter Driveshaft.