expertice for clutch job

[Champion51]

Anyone done a clutch replacement lately on an early 50's Champion? Looking for some expert advice here.

My chassis shows a multiple clutch disc set with a completely different number than the Stude vendors show. I am assuming their's is a replacement part? I am also assuming I need the 8.5" clutch disc rather than the 8" one, considering my 3 spd. has [u]overdrive</u>. I don't want to take the tranny apart until I have parts in hand, otherwise I could measure the disc.

I will be replacing the pressure plate with the corresponding clutch disc. While I'm at it, do you recommend replacing any other parts such as the "rear bearing", "pilot bearing", "clutch release bearing assembly". Don't want to spend the motherlode, but I also don't want to have to take it apart in the future to replace something I should do now. Do any of these parts wear more than others and should be definitely replaced? Are there any seals or other parts that should also be replaced? (Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic)

I have never taken a clutch apart, so this is all a new learning experience. Yep, could call the Stude vendor but would prefer the info from the real pros. (Quite often the nice lady at the order desk just doesn't know exactly what I'm talking about).[?]

Any advice on this is very much appreciated!! (My shop manual will be a big help, but is there a web site for "mechanical dummies" that would give me a step-by-step instruction on doing this job?)



Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

[rusty nut garage]

I'd recommend that you replace the pilot bushing. Inspect the clutch release bearing (throwout bearing). Also inspect the flywheel surface and if needed have it resurfaced. If the parts manual calls for more than one size you'll likely have to wait until it torn down and measure it. Welcome to one of the joys of old cars. Your car is 56 years old, its bound to have had the clutch previously replaced. Who knows what someone else installed.
Good luck and follow the shop manual it worth the effort!!
Russ

quote:Originally posted by Champion51

Anyone done a clutch replacement lately on an early 50's Champion? Looking for some expert advice here.

My chassis shows a multiple clutch disc set with a completely different number than the Stude vendors show. I am assuming their's is a replacement part? I am also assuming I need the 8.5" clutch disc rather than the 8" one, considering my 3 spd. has [u]overdrive</u>. I don't want to take the tranny apart until I have parts in hand, otherwise I could measure the disc.

I will be replacing the pressure plate with the corresponding clutch disc. While I'm at it, do you recommend replacing any other parts such as the "rear bearing", "pilot bearing", "clutch release bearing assembly". Don't want to spend the motherlode, but I also don't want to have to take it apart in the future to replace something I should do now. Do any of these parts wear more than others and should be definitely replaced? Are there any seals or other parts that should also be replaced? (Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic)

I have never taken a clutch apart, so this is all a new learning experience. Yep, could call the Stude vendor but would prefer the info from the real pros. (Quite often the nice lady at the order desk just doesn't know exactly what I'm talking about).[?]

Any advice on this is very much appreciated!! (My shop manual will be a big help, but is there a web site for "mechanical dummies" that would give me a step-by-step instruction on doing this job?)



Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[John Kirchhoff]

As Russ said, check the throwout bearing. If you can hear the balls rattle and it spins for a long time with little resistance after twisting it by hand, I'd get a new one. Many industrial bearings have a tapped hole that a zerk will screw into, but most automotive ones don't. If the old one locks up, when you release the clutch the bearing won't turn but since the clutch release fingers will be turning engine speed, they're going to get ground down and then you'll buy a new pressure plate.

When you reinstall the tranny, having something like a wooden dowl with more or less the same dimensions as the tranny input shaft will allow you to align the clutch plate between the flywheel and pressure plate before you tighten down the latter. Otherwise, it can be a real headache getting the tranny back in. Usually you have to have someone release the clutch while you wallow the tranny around trying to hit the hole in the flywheel. If you have a wood lathe, making up a dummy would be easy but if not, you may be able to make something using PVC pipe. PVC and CPVC have slightly different outside diameters, so between the two you might get lucky and find something that will fit into the pilot bearing hole. The hole in the clutch plate will be bigger and you might be able to use reducers and or unions to increase the OD to match. I'd try the PVC route first because most CPVC doesn't go as large as the hole in the plate likely is. Also consider using a piece of pipe that's larger than the pilot hole but use the shank of a pilot hole sized bolt driven or glued into the end of the pipe for the small end. To shim up the big end, consider that Schedule 40 PVC and SDR PVC have the same OD but different ID for the same diameter pipe and you may come up with a combination of the two that will be right.

[gordr]

The pilot bearing is, I believe, mounted in the center of the flywheel on Champions, and it comes out with the flywheel. Should be easy to change, and quite cheap. Just do it. The release bearing, if it is not obviously worn out as John described above, can be repacked. You can knock it off the flanged collar quite easily, and then, just using your thumbs and fingertips, force about a heaping teaspoonful of wheel bearing grease into the gap between the front and rear races on the inner bore of the bearing. Once you have it apart, it is pretty obvious. Packing it with fresh grease will give an old but still sound bearing a new lease on life.

I happen to have a couple of "old rebuilt stock" and/or "almost new, slightly used" Champion clutch discs and pressure plates here in Trochu, Alberta. If you get yours out and determine the size, drop me an e-mail via this forum, and I will look and see what I have. I could send them to you by Greyhound. I could also send along the input shaft from an old Champion transmission, which you could use as a clutch aligning tool. Personally, I have had very good luck aligning clutches simply by using "educated fingertips" to center the clutch disc under the friction surface of the pressure plate.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Champion51]

Thank you guys for your imput. Some good info there. Gord, I'll certainly keep your offer in mind. Have a friend who has taken many Ford transmissions apart and am sure this will not be that much different or any more difficult. Got to wait till he is available to help and that may be January or February. Thanks again.

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

[jackb]

Interesting thread.....I'm following all threads on rebuilding/replacing systems like our long engine rebuilding thread...What did the "old timers" replace and how on a clutch R/R...?

[John Kirchhoff]

In my experience, one thing that's easy to overlook when dealing with a well used pressure plate is the height of the release fingers. With lots of clutch use or a locked up throwout bearing, they have a way of becoming worn and not disengaging as far as they should. The clutch tends to drag and pretty soon you have run out of threaded adjusting rod. If the fingers aren't all adjusted evenly, the clutch tends to be grabby. The fingers are easily adjusted when the pressure plate is removed and even a $20 Chinese vernier caliper will let you get it done right. None of this applies to diaphram type plates though.

On cars it's usually the friction material that's worn on the clutch plate while on larger clutches in heavy service like trucks, often times there may be adequate friction material but the inner hub is worn and loose. I've had clutch plates where the springs had worn grooves 1/4 inch deep. When this happens, it allows the splined center to rotate back and forth before taking hold. This can result in a "sloppy" clutch that jerks when first engaging or shifting.

In the dinky little town of Jonesburg, Missouri there's a place called Unique Automotive that rebuilds clutch plates, pressure plates and turns flywheels. Their shop has multiple piles of parts waist deep and they can do work of any size. I saw some whopping big flywheels and they were relining brakes for a bulldozer. While I waited, they turned a large tractor flywheel for $35 and replaced the ceramic friction pads, center hub and springs on a clutch plate for $76. 25 years ago a similar clutch plate cost $125, so no telling what it would cost now. They did excellent work and I recommend them to anyone. If you're halfway close and want to take a day trip, stop in and they'll fix whatever your problem is, no appointments necessary. If anyone needs their phone number, holler and I'll dig through my receipts and find it. They give estimates over the phone and stick to them unless there's some terrible unexpected problem.

[bobhech]

quote:Originally posted by Champion51

Anyone done a clutch replacement lately on an early 50's Champion? Looking for some expert advice here.

My chassis shows a multiple clutch disc set with a completely different number than the Stude vendors show. I am assuming their's is a replacement part? I am also assuming I need the 8.5" clutch disc rather than the 8" one, considering my 3 spd. has [u]overdrive</u>. I don't want to take the tranny apart until I have parts in hand, otherwise I could measure the disc.

I will be replacing the pressure plate with the corresponding clutch disc. While I'm at it, do you recommend replacing any other parts such as the "rear bearing", "pilot bearing", "clutch release bearing assembly". Don't want to spend the motherlode, but I also don't want to have to take it apart in the future to replace something I should do now. Do any of these parts wear more than others and should be definitely replaced? Are there any seals or other parts that should also be replaced? (Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic)

I have never taken a clutch apart, so this is all a new learning experience. Yep, could call the Stude vendor but would prefer the info from the real pros. (Quite often the nice lady at the order desk just doesn't know exactly what I'm talking about).[?]

Any advice on this is very much appreciated!! (My shop manual will be a big help, but is there a web site for "mechanical dummies" that would give me a step-by-step instruction on doing this job?)



Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

[bobhech]

quote:Originally posted by Champion51

Anyone done a clutch replacement lately on an early 50's Champion? Looking for some expert advice here.

My chassis shows a multiple clutch disc set with a completely different number than the Stude vendors show. I am assuming their's is a replacement part? I am also assuming I need the 8.5" clutch disc rather than the 8" one, considering my 3 spd. has [u]overdrive</u>. I don't want to take the tranny apart until I have parts in hand, otherwise I could measure the disc.

I will be replacing the pressure plate with the corresponding clutch disc. While I'm at it, do you recommend replacing any other parts such as the "rear bearing", "pilot bearing", "clutch release bearing assembly". Don't want to spend the motherlode, but I also don't want to have to take it apart in the future to replace something I should do now. Do any of these parts wear more than others and should be definitely replaced? Are there any seals or other parts that should also be replaced? (Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic)

I have never taken a clutch apart, so this is all a new learning experience. Yep, could call the Stude vendor but would prefer the info from the real pros. (Quite often the nice lady at the order desk just doesn't know exactly what I'm talking about).[?]

Any advice on this is very much appreciated!! (My shop manual will be a big help, but is there a web site for "mechanical dummies" that would give me a step-by-step instruction on doing this job?)



Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

[bobhech]

Dear Dave,

We just did a complete overhaul on our '50 Champ this Thursday. There is really no point is not changing all the parts as they are available and reasonable. We bought all our parts from Studebaker International in Greenfield, Indiana. They are priced fair and in stock. There are four parts, Clutch Disk (ours is 8" as well as yours and we have overdrive too) for $68.00, Release bearing at $67.75, Pilot bushing for $3.50 and the clutch plate for $120.00. We had "Mr. Transmission" here do it for us. He charged us for 4 hours. He re-sealed the transmission as well. I mean, since it was out. What the heck?

quote:Originally posted by Champion51

Anyone done a clutch replacement lately on an early 50's Champion? Looking for some expert advice here.

My chassis shows a multiple clutch disc set with a completely different number than the Stude vendors show. I am assuming their's is a replacement part? I am also assuming I need the 8.5" clutch disc rather than the 8" one, considering my 3 spd. has [u]overdrive</u>. I don't want to take the tranny apart until I have parts in hand, otherwise I could measure the disc.

I will be replacing the pressure plate with the corresponding clutch disc. While I'm at it, do you recommend replacing any other parts such as the "rear bearing", "pilot bearing", "clutch release bearing assembly". Don't want to spend the motherlode, but I also don't want to have to take it apart in the future to replace something I should do now. Do any of these parts wear more than others and should be definitely replaced? Are there any seals or other parts that should also be replaced? (Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic)

I have never taken a clutch apart, so this is all a new learning experience. Yep, could call the Stude vendor but would prefer the info from the real pros. (Quite often the nice lady at the order desk just doesn't know exactly what I'm talking about).[?]

Any advice on this is very much appreciated!! (My shop manual will be a big help, but is there a web site for "mechanical dummies" that would give me a step-by-step instruction on doing this job?)



Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada