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MilesofTx
04-29-2015, 08:50 PM
Soaked the plugs holes in oil yesterday. Praying in the morning I can get the motor to break free and at least turn over manually.

rockne10
04-29-2015, 09:15 PM
Don't expect it in one day! Soak, soak, soak! Use Marvel Mystery Oil or similar penetrable. if you can, remove the starter and pry the flywheel one tooth at a time with a prybar. Minimally traumatic. I soaked the cylinders in my '33 for over a month before getting it to loosen. It's been drivable now for over two decades without any major engine work.

MilesofTx
04-29-2015, 09:21 PM
Ok Rockne. Can I try to turn the crankshaft without risk of damage? And does it matter in which direction?


Don't expect it in one day! Soak, soak, soak! Use Marvel Mystery Oil or similar penetrable. if you can, remove the starter and pry the flywheel one tooth at a time with a prybar. Minimally traumatic. I soaked the cylinders in my '33 for over a month before getting it to loosen. It's been drivable now for over two decades without any major engine work.

tbredehoft
04-29-2015, 09:36 PM
No harm, but try to move one way just a tiny bit, then the other way a bit more, keep this up for a week or so, until it's able to be turned over. There may be a removable pan under the flywheel, there are devices that you can use to move the flywheel with them, they sort of ratchet on the teeth.

Be very patient. Once it's broken free, there still are probably frozen piston rings....best to remove the cylinders and fix them.

MilesofTx
04-29-2015, 09:43 PM
I was born without patience. But I'll try. Thanks for the tips.


No harm, but try to move one way just a tiny bit, then the other way a bit more, keep this up for a week or so, until it's able to be turned over. There may be a removable pan under the flywheel, there are devices that you can use to move the flywheel with them, they sort of ratchet on the teeth.

Be very patient. Once it's broken free, there still are probably frozen piston rings....best to remove the cylinders and fix them.

rockne10
04-29-2015, 11:50 PM
I was born without patience. But I'll try. In the absence of patience, imagine the time you may spend working for the almighty dollar to cover the expense of impatience.


... does it matter in which direction?Nope!

sals54
04-30-2015, 02:12 AM
I'm with you on the lack of patience. But please do think about the patience you'll need, if you break it out of haste. Then you,ll have to wait for a complete overhaul to be done before you can drive it. That sort of patience I REALLY don't have.
Let it soak. Break it loose slowly as it was described above. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.
By the way… welcome to the Forum. I look forward to the progress.
A few years ago, I had this 39 Coupe Express which had not been run in 30 years. A little patience with soaking brought success. Here's a taste of what you might experience:

https://youtu.be/CFPLZPIs1zY

doofus
04-30-2015, 06:55 AM
Glad i dont have to mow that yard!!! Doofus

conrad01
04-30-2015, 07:27 AM
My car was in a garage for 35 years and last driven in 73 ish. It took one month before I could get it to free up.

jackb
04-30-2015, 08:10 AM
...... and don't you have windows and a bunch of things needed in this vehicle that would take time while the engine is soaking ? Get on to them. Make progress-and when that engine finally starts up.......you'll be in "high cotton" !

jrlemke
04-30-2015, 08:23 AM
Be very careful turning with the flywheel, the teeth will break rather easily! Use the crank bolt if possible. Try ATF in the cylinders or check for penetrating oils here, there is one that uses ATF and I think glicerine that works well, I used it on a Grey Marine inboard that sat at the bottom of the lake for many years. Took about 3 weeks to free up and I got it running without taking it apart! Never did get the rings freed-up tho. -Jim

MilesofTx
04-30-2015, 08:28 AM
I do I do have a million things to do while I wait. But if this engine is shot. I'm not sure I will continue the project. I'm a fireman. So funds are limited. So I just want to see what I've got here.




...... and don't you have windows and a bunch of things needed in this vehicle that would take time while the engine is soaking ? Get on to them. Make progress-and when that engine finally starts up.......you'll be in "high cotton" !

MilesofTx
04-30-2015, 08:30 AM
I totally agree. I bought an 1 1/2" socket this morning. Gonna go give it a little test in a minute. I'll be gentle. Fingers crossed.


Be very careful turning with the flywheel, the teeth will break rather easily! Use the crank bolt if possible. Try ATF in the cylinders or check for penetrating oils here, there is one that uses ATF and I think glicerine that works well, I used it on a Grey Marine inboard that sat at the bottom of the lake for many years. Took about 3 weeks to free up and I got it running without taking it apart! Never did get the rings freed-up tho. -Jim

Bob Andrews
04-30-2015, 08:40 AM
Interesting comments. I've done this many times, and I prefer the right prybar in the flywheel teeth. In nearly 40 years, I have never seen a flywheel tooth break doing this.

I prefer the flywheel approach over the crank bolt, because I HAVE seen them break, or the head round off. Keep in mind, the much larger flywheel diameter compared to the small bolt in the crank acts like a major torque multiplier. That means the pressure on a flywheel tooth is much, much less than the same amount of force on that crankshaft bolt. Also, with a stuck engine, if you try to rock the crankshaft, you will frequently loosen the crankshaft bolt, which means you won't be able to get that reverse motion.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

stude1964
04-30-2015, 09:14 AM
I've used a 50/50 mix of WD and ATF. I too pried on the flywheel for more force. I worked it back and forth until I could spin it with the starter having pulled all the spark plugs. I spun it until the oil pressure came up. BTW my Dad got a real soaking when it started to spin over from all the junk in the cylinders! We drained all the oil, changed the filter and after new oil we fired the engine. Lots of smoke initially but it went away quickly after the muffler dried out! I wound up re-gasketing the engine but never tore it down. I sold the car after putting over 50,000 miles on it. Good Luck and be PATIENT!
Rob in PA.

jclary
04-30-2015, 09:24 AM
I totally agree. I bought an 1 1/2" socket this morning. Gonna go give it a little test in a minute. I'll be gentle. Fingers crossed.

Well...a note of caution!:eek: Years ago, I discovered (too late) that the crank bolt aligns perfectly with the water pump pulley.:ohmy: If that socket slips off the bolt...you will marvel as you watch the blood fill up the underside of your thumbnail!:(

Then...until you drill a hole in the nail to relieve the pressure/pain...you will have more than "crossed" fingers.:o

Keep the socket for when you really need it. But, for now, use the flywheel.;)

dean pearson
04-30-2015, 09:54 AM
Lots of oil remember the piston is on an angle and you want to soak the entire thing to to bottom.
It's going to be messy when it does finally move.

Dean.

GinettaG12P
04-30-2015, 10:26 AM
No one has mentioned my favorite "home brew" penetrating fluid: 50/50 mixture of acetone and ATF. The acetone dissolves the stuff that the ATF doesn't. Used it on a stuck Lotus Twin Cam and, with a little added elbow grease, go to turn freely.

Buzzard
04-30-2015, 10:34 AM
My successes have been a quart or more ATF down the carburetor filling the intake and if it's been sitting for a long while, pop the valve covers and soak all the valve stems with a very good penetrating oil to prevent a stuck valve when it does free up. I concur with Bob in post #14 re the flywheel issue with plugs removed(cover holes to prevent foreign material from entering). Not to brag, but I have yet to have a failure, and yes patience certainly helps. Once she fires expect a pretty smokey running condition for quite some time in order to use up all that ATF. Just remember it is lubricating practically everything in the top end.
Good luck,
Bill

PackardV8
04-30-2015, 10:47 AM
pop the valve covers and soak all the valve stems with a very good penetrating oil to prevent a stuck valve when it does free up.

We might consider this a two-step process.

If an OHV engine, remove the rocker arm hold-down bolts so a stuck valve is not locking the rotation and ultimately bending the pushrod or breaking the rocker arm. With access to the valve stems, as mentioned, soak them with the ATF/acetone mixture for a couple of days. Then, with the force in line with the valve stem, whack each valve with a brass hammer. If they move easily, good. Stuck valves will make a hard, ringing sound and the resistance can be felt in the hammer head. Soak them, whack them. There will be the rare valve which just won't free up and head removal is required.

Then, while massaging the valve train, continue soaking and prying on the rotating assembly as recommended.

jack vines

bradnree
04-30-2015, 12:52 PM
I use 50/50 acetone and trans fluid on many items. The trans fluid will follow the acetone.

RNB22Stude
04-30-2015, 03:18 PM
Post #20 - great advice. My 232 is stuck and has been marinating in ATF/lacquer thinner 6 months. I will do the whack-a-valve treatment next. Have tried socket on the crank carefully and put the car in gear, aggressively rocked it back and forth which I thought for sure would break it free, but no luck. Will try the pry bar on flywheel approach after prepping the valves.

MilesofTx
04-30-2015, 09:14 PM
Still no luck. But I'm being patient. 433514335243353

Bob Andrews
04-30-2015, 10:25 PM
I can tell you that just using that ratchet will not give you anywhere near the leverage you will probably need to break it loose. I usually use a half inch breaker bar with a 3 foot piece of pipe over the handle. Of course, that requires a high quality socket and extension. Also, I do not recommend an extension if you can avoid it.

Again though, you can get much better leverage with a prybar on the flywheel to see if you can get to it.

karterfred88
05-01-2015, 12:23 AM
From the photos, I'd assume this to be a flat head 6. Depending on where it stopped exactly some cylinders will be near TDC with exhaust the valve open. Don't bother pouring excessive amounts of ATF/Acetone in every cylinder. I suggest you use the hose from a leak down tester and compressed air to determine which cylinders have a valve open=won't slow down the airflow. Concentrate on those that have closed intakes and exhaust, pour in the mix till you can see it in the bottom of the spark plug hole. Put in the adapter and hook up the air line-set to about 100PSI and walk away. Check in a couple of hours, refill and move to the next cylinder that holds pressure and repeat. Probably will only get 3 that you can do that way. Then using the pry bay on flywheel method attempt to move crank. if you get it to move some, check to see if another cylinder now holds pressure, then repeat in that one. With a flathead it's hard to get the mixture down to the cylinder walls if it's just running out the intake or exhaust valve. The air pressure will hasten the penetration on the sealed cylinders and if you can get 3 or 4 moving enough it will allow you to move onto the next one faster. Hope this helps some, it also makes you feel like something is getting accomplished when you see the mix disappear in each cylinder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-94190.html

karterfred88
05-01-2015, 12:24 AM
From the photos, I'd assume this to be a flat head 6. Depending on where it stopped exactly some cylinders will be near TDC with exhaust the valve open. Don't bother pouring excessive amounts of ATF/Acetone in every cylinder. I suggest you use the hose from a leak down tester and compressed air to determine which cylinders have a valve open=won't slow down the airflow. Concentrate on those that have closed intakes and exhaust, pour in the mix till you can see it in the bottom of the spark plug hole. Put in the adapter and hook up the air line-set to about 100PSI and walk away. Check in a couple of hours, refill and move to the next cylinder that holds pressure and repeat. Probably will only get 3 that you can do that way. Then using the pry bay on flywheel method attempt to move crank. if you get it to move some, check to see if another cylinder now holds pressure, then repeat in that one. With a flathead it's hard to get the mixture down to the cylinder walls if it's just running out the intake or exhaust valve. The air pressure will hasten the penetration on the sealed cylinders and if you can get 3 or 4 moving enough it will allow you to move onto the next one faster. Hope this helps some, it also makes you feel like something is getting accomplished when you see the mix disappear in each cylinder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-94190.html

karterfred88
05-01-2015, 12:29 AM
Sorry for the double post but didn't seem to take on the first try just got the old "spinning wheel".

MilesofTx
05-01-2015, 06:04 AM
The small ratchet is my way of being patient. I will ramp up the efforts as it has had more time to soak. I was hoping it was not very stuck, and I might get lucky.

TWChamp
05-01-2015, 06:18 AM
I agree with Bob in post #14. Be sure to follow what Bob said. You don't want to be pulling crankshaft threads or breaking the bolt. Chances are the rings will remain stuck even if you get the pistons to move, so you might want to just pull the head and remove the pistons right away. You might get by with new rings and a light hone of the cylinders.

conrad01
05-01-2015, 07:24 AM
wd40 and used diesel engine oil. Every night top up the cylinders . Its going to take at least a month. Flood up the intake also at least once. In my opinion if you could fill every cylinder and put on a circulating block heater. Plug it in and get the block hot. The temp change should allow the mixture to go deeper into the rings and the rust to help release it. Just a thought.

altair
05-01-2015, 10:48 AM
From the photos, I'd assume this to be a flat head 6. Depending on where it stopped exactly some cylinders will be near TDC with exhaust the valve open. Don't bother pouring excessive amounts of ATF/Acetone in every cylinder. I suggest you use the hose from a leak down tester and compressed air to determine which cylinders have a valve open=won't slow down the airflow. Concentrate on those that have closed intakes and exhaust, pour in the mix till you can see it in the bottom of the spark plug hole. Put in the adapter and hook up the air line-set to about 100PSI and walk away. Check in a couple of hours, refill and move to the next cylinder that holds pressure and repeat. Probably will only get 3 that you can do that way. Then using the pry bay on flywheel method attempt to move crank. if you get it to move some, check to see if another cylinder now holds pressure, then repeat in that one. With a flathead it's hard to get the mixture down to the cylinder walls if it's just running out the intake or exhaust valve. The air pressure will hasten the penetration on the sealed cylinders and if you can get 3 or 4 moving enough it will allow you to move onto the next one faster. Hope this helps some, it also makes you feel like something is getting accomplished when you see the mix disappear in each cylinder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-94190.html
I like your method the best I would like to add and alternate medium, I have heard of using grease in the closed cylinders, as a very high pressure can be attained with a grease gun and again let it sit with the high pressure in the cylinder(s)

Mrs K Corbin
05-01-2015, 11:49 AM
I used the Acetone/ATF and it works wonderfully.... Still takes about a month all told.
Also, that little ratchet aint gonna do much.
Yank the Starter and get a prybar in there.
pry on the ring-gear teeth and get it to move one tooth one-way, and then one tooth the other....

I've done it on Studebaker 6's and Tractors alike.

Mike Van Veghten
05-01-2015, 12:30 PM
Remember...there's more in an engine that can corrode and freeze a crankshaft from turning..!
Don't be in such a rush only to find it's more than "one stick piston ring..!"

Other things that freeze in place -
Lifter to block
Valve to guide
Wrist pin to piston
More than one ring
Piston to cylinderwall

All it takes is "one" of these to lock-up the entire package.

And I've seen ALL of these lock up an engine in the past.

Mike

kamzack
05-01-2015, 06:19 PM
God hears the prayers of a righteous heart. Just sayin
Kim

MilesofTx
05-01-2015, 06:21 PM
Then I think it will be fine:)



God hears the prayers of a righteous heart. Just sayin
Kim

kamzack
05-03-2015, 03:26 PM
I think it will too, Brother.
Kim

57pack
05-03-2015, 04:30 PM
Used the ATF and acetone method on a stuck Scott-Atwater 7.5, took awhile but she came loose. Runs like a purring kitten today.:!:

leonp
05-03-2015, 06:45 PM
I soaked my 1958 6cyl for 9 months with dextron ATF, got it loose on engine stand without breaking a flywheel tooth or a valve.First removed the head to clean up a lot of gunk, lightly honed the cyls with pistons in, later cleaned under the valves. Threw the head back on with old gasket and it eventually started and even idled. There's more tricks if you're interested.