Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

VIN vs Serial number and build sheet vs production order. What's the deal?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • VIN vs Serial number and build sheet vs production order. What's the deal?

    Richard Quinn
    Editor emeritus: Antique Studebaker Review

  • #2
    I think using"VIN" and "build sheet" rather than their more accurate and contemporary names is nothing but verbal shorthand for most...even those who know the proper terminology. Those who don't know that are simply applying modern terminology.
    Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

    Comment


    • #3
      What Bruce [Gunslinger] said: Verbal shorthand, bred of an ignorance (not necessarily stupidity, just ignorance) of the difference between a Serial Number and a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number)....and the difference between a Production Order and a Build Sheet, although I'm not sure how I would define that difference.

      I would suppose that a Production Order is just that; an internal factory document that tells the production department how to configure a given vehicle. From that order, the Production Dept generates a "Build Sheet" to tell the production line what components to install on a given chassis, and how that chassis is to be built as regards springs, drive line components, and such.

      Now, to further complicate the subject is to point out that the last six digits of a Vehicle Identification Number are usually a given vehicle's sequential Serial Number, so VINs include Serial Numbers! But Serial Numbers were only generic Vehicle Identification Numbers before 1981, when the Serial Number was the legal number to identify a specific vehicle.

      So Bruce gave a good short answer...and the long answer could go on for days, Dick...and around here, probably will.

      (Is it OK if I mention my Pet Peeve while were at it...that of referring to a two-door automobile with a rigid "B" pillar as a "post" car? Thank you; I needed that.) BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Studebaker Wheel View Post
        I do not believe Studebaker ever used that phrase (VIN) and I doubt whether any other manufactures did either.
        1965 and 1966 clearly state 'Vehicle Identification Number' on the plate.

        I posted a photo of a '66 plate here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...fication+plate

        Craig
        Last edited by 8E45E; 11-18-2014, 05:55 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Somewhat more annoying is seeing a reference to VIN number rather than just VIN (sort of like calling an ATM an ATM machine).
          Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
          '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

          Comment


          • #6
            It's also a matter of age. The term VIN has been in common usage for more than 30 years, so anyone born after, say, 1970, would probably never have been exposed to the once-more-common term serial number. Cops, DMV employees, and inspection station staff all use the term VIN because that's the term that their state guidance documents use. The long VIN was mandated by the Feds because the emissions, safety, and CAFE standards kept getting revised, though they generally only applied to new vehicles (and not to those already on the road). But the enforcement of these standards was only possible if the model year of a vehicle could be conclusively identified -- and that required a VIN that included not only the model year, but such other info as engine and trans -- so it was a lot more than just a serial number. The long VIN is also handy during recalls, as a computer (either govt or car company) can very quickly identify every single vehicle with the potential problem.

            This model-year mania often extends to vehicle owners, too -- almost every week we get an inquiry from someone who just bought a 2R5 truck (Studebaker's all-time best seller) and desperately wants to know the model year. They are often disheartened to learn that it really doesn't make any difference -- there were only a few important running changes over the whole 1949-53 model year run, and all 2R5 trucks are essentially identical.
            Skip Lackie

            Comment


            • #7
              VIN number

              Richard
              I like the term "birth certificate"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 8E45E View Post
                1965 and 1966 clearly state 'Vehicle Identification Number' on the plate.

                I posted a photo of a '66 plate here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...fication+plate

                Craig
                This is maybe proof the Richard doesn't know everything
                sigpic

                Home of the Fried Green Tomato

                "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

                1960 Champ , 1966 Daytona , 1965 Daytona Wagonaire

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would bet he knew it but was testing us!
                  Brad Johnson,
                  SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                  Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                  '33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight. '53 Commander Starlight
                  '56 Sky Hawk in process

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My pet peeve, the term "hot water heater". Why would you heat hot water??? Vin is simply a nickname for Vinnie...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
                      I would bet he knew it but was testing us!
                      It won't be the first time: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ght=fiat+coupe

                      Craig

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stanwood
                        "Build sheet" seems more of a Company specific variation. Have never heard an old Studebaker employees use the term, but it was very common among GM "liners" (and Corvette people, who tend to insist on being annoyingly "correct" about everything). Remember old Studebaker employees calling production orders "line tickets". That makes sense to me, because it was integral documentation in that fine art of "line setting"--making sure that all the correct components and options arrived at exactly the right vehicle at exactly the right time in the assembly process. So to summarize--"Build sheet" sounds foreign to me. But frankly, "Production Order" sounds a bit formal, if not pompous. Though I use it interchangeably with "line ticket".
                        International did use term "Line Setting Ticket" to describe theirs: (post 9)http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...rnational+1500

                        According to George Krem in his post #21 here, there were 8 pages to a Studebaker production order with their terminology/destination for each copy: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...firewall+money

                        Craig
                        Last edited by 8E45E; 11-24-2014, 05:57 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - some English guy.
                          Pat Dilling
                          Olivehurst, CA
                          Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


                          LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You say potato and I say potahto
                            You say tomato and I say tomahto
                            Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto.
                            sigpic
                            Dave Lester

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 8E45E View Post
                              1965 and 1966 clearly state 'Vehicle Identification Number' on the plate.

                              I posted a photo of a '66 plate here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...on+plate Craig
                              That is correct Craig, I was quite shocked to see "Vehicle Identification Number" in my '65-'66 Parts Catalog!

                              Studebaker might actually have been "Ahead of their time" as many non-Studebaker people like to say!

                              Actually, I prefer "Different by Design"!
                              StudeRich
                              Second Generation Stude Driver,
                              Proud '54 Starliner Owner
                              SDC Member Since 1967

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X