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ddub
08-26-2014, 12:40 AM
The Sept. TW has a tech tip from Randy Rundle proclaiming that the most effective penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. I tried this and found the two do not mix. I can agitate them but they separate quickly. Spraying will only spray the liquid nearest the pick up in the sprayer. What am I missing?

StudeRich
08-26-2014, 02:28 AM
I have never heard of it being recommended for spraying, just pouring in rusted Cylinders to free them up.

In my opinion, the best Penetrating Oil spray is Kroil, followed by PB Blaster and Marvel Mystery Oil.

Mike
08-26-2014, 02:48 AM
The Sept. TW has a tech tip from Randy Rundle proclaiming that the most effective penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. I tried this and found the two do not mix. I can agitate them but they separate quickly. Spraying will only spray the liquid nearest the pick up in the sprayer. What am I missing?
Acetone is pretty dangerous stuff! See Richard Pryor's bits about his accident freebasing. Be warned about strong language.
Spraying it into a mist is asking for an explosion. Maybe you would be saved when the plastic parts of the sprayer dissolved.
I don't even like the idea of putting it in cylinders. It's going to come spraying out the plug holes when the engine frees. If the ignition isn't disabled there will be plenty of sparks to set it off. Remember the resistor bypass will still be hot, even with the switch off.
My favorite penetrating oil is "LPS Heavy Duty Rust Inhibitor" you can spray it on and it jells and creeps; even against gravity.
Mike M.

Silverplate
08-26-2014, 07:40 AM
I have used Kroil with outstanding results. Inexpensive great product.

Bud
08-26-2014, 07:44 AM
I've used Kroil or Aero Kroil for years as a penetrating oil with very good results. I agree with Mike, acetone is highly flammable and will eat plastic and shouldn't be used as a spray. Kano Labs the makers of Kroil also have a product called Kreen that is meant to be poured into cylinders to free stuck pistons and rings and to be poured into the engine oil to clean up internal engine parts. I've used Kreen in engines that haven't been run in years with good results. Bud

BobWaitz
08-26-2014, 09:38 AM
I've seen the original report that showed acetone mixed with ATF as being superior to Kroil. If you search the web you will fine many, many references to it and almost as many that report the two don't stay mixed. Acetone is a little too dangerous for me so I will continue to use Kroil.

ddub
08-26-2014, 10:31 AM
In the report Randy quotes Kroil was the second best but required twice the torque to loosen the rusted test bolt as acetone and ATF. In order of effectiveness the products tested were: ATF/acetone, Kroil, Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, WD 40. There are of course many others they could have tested.

I had some experience with the flammability of acetone when I took organic chemistry in college!

Skip Lackie
08-26-2014, 12:22 PM
Acetone is certainly flammable, but is hazardous mostly because it evaporates so quickly into a vapor. But that's why a mixture of acetone and ATF is such a good penetrating lubricant: the acetone mixes well enough with ATF to carry it into every nook and cranny, then evaporates and leaves the ATF behind. Acetone is also completely miscible with water, and will remove some of the water molecules that are normally embedded within the matrix of iron oxide molecules.

Flashback
08-26-2014, 03:51 PM
I am a user of acetone/atf mix, and it does mix enough to do the job. It also does it better than anything I have used in the last 50 or so years.

cycledog
08-26-2014, 05:07 PM
I use the mixture all the time, great and inexpensive. Lacquer thinner will work well in place of acetone. I shake it up, use an irrigating syringe to suck it up and apply with pin point accuracy.

Jefscoupe
08-26-2014, 06:40 PM
After my father in law passed away several years ago, I cleaned out a couple of his old storage buildings.
One of the things I found (besides 2 cans of R12 with 99 cent price tags) was a mostly full can of Do-All (yes, the bandsaw/machine tool company) penetrating spray.
It worked well and I've mostly used it up now. It smelled a lot like the Kroil or PB Blaster.
Don't know if it's even still available.
I know, not much help, but it's relevant to the conversation...IMO :D

48skyliner
08-26-2014, 06:58 PM
I don't understand the paranoia about using acetone. It is almost the same as lacquer thinner. People working with fiberglass use acetone every day, to thin the gelcoat for spraying and to clean tools and other items after use with polyester resins. I am currently using acetone very day, as recommended by the manufacturer, to thin the polyester primer I am using on my Studebaker project. From the standpoint of flammability or the hazards of inhaling the fumes or skin contact, acetone is essentially no different from lacquer thinner.

Jerry Forrester
08-26-2014, 07:10 PM
I am a user of acetone/atf mix, and it does mix enough to do the job. It also does it better than anything I have used in the last 50 or so years.

I just CC'ed Tex' post. 'Me too' aint enough letters all by their self.

53commander
08-26-2014, 08:10 PM
I love PB Blaster and I keep a squirt oil can with brake fluid in it also.

Deaf Mute
08-27-2014, 08:34 AM
For those that mix ATF & Acetone...What do you keep the mixture in & how do you apply it? I can't see putting it in a "pumper" oil can... but that may be the way to go. Looking for advice from someone that knows.
Thanks!

clonelark
08-27-2014, 08:50 AM
When i worked at McDonnell Douglas aircraft,(as a Machinist) they used LPS, I'm sure they had a reason to use it. Aircraft uses the best quality parts made, doubt they had much rust, as every thing is made of aluminum, stainless, titanium, brillium copper, and bronze. not to mention plastics, ceramic, and nylon materials. They make LPS in 1,2, and 3. i used to wash my hands and arms in acetone almost every work day for 19 years, i'm 71 and it hasn't got to me yet.

Skip Lackie
08-27-2014, 09:29 AM
For those that mix ATF & Acetone...What do you keep the mixture in & how do you apply it? I can't see putting it in a "pumper" oil can... but that may be the way to go. Looking for advice from someone that knows.
Thanks!
I do mix a small amount in a pumper oil can and agitate it frequently. But only mix as much as you'll use that day. By tomorrow, almost all of the acetone will be gone.

Jerry Forrester
08-27-2014, 02:52 PM
I do mix a small amount in a pumper oil can and agitate it frequently. But only mix as much as you'll use that day. By tomorrow, almost all of the acetone will be gone.

That's the way I do it.

Ron Dame
08-27-2014, 06:00 PM
I think the paranoia is about spraying it rather than applying it with an oil can or brush. Making an atomization with air and a potential ignition source could be ..... interesting!

I mix only enough for a job in an old cat food tin, then brush or dribble it on, or whatever.


I don't understand the paranoia about using acetone. It is almost the same as lacquer thinner. People working with fiberglass use acetone every day, to thin the gelcoat for spraying and to clean tools and other items after use with polyester resins. I am currently using acetone very day, as recommended by the manufacturer, to thin the polyester primer I am using on my Studebaker project. From the standpoint of flammability or the hazards of inhaling the fumes or skin contact, acetone is essentially no different from lacquer thinner.

53k
08-27-2014, 08:28 PM
For those that mix ATF & Acetone...What do you keep the mixture in & how do you apply it? I can't see putting it in a "pumper" oil can... but that may be the way to go. Looking for advice from someone that knows.
Thanks!
I mixed some acetone and ATF 50 - 50 as suggested. Problem was, it melted the bottom of my plastic spray bottle and ran all over the barn floor before I could use it.

mapman
08-27-2014, 10:50 PM
I do use the 50/50 mix in a pumper can. My theory is the acetone dissolves whatever and then as it evaporates the ATF displaces it, lubricating the parts. I just know I am very impressed with the way it works.
Rob

Don Jeffers
08-28-2014, 12:05 PM
I also use a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone.

I keep the ATF in the quart container it comes in. I keep the acetone in the metal can it comes in. I use a small metal oil pumper can with a metal nozzle.

I pour my pumper squirt can about 1/2 full with ATF followed by 1/2 acetone; mix with a screwdriver and squirt, no spray.

I read about ATF/acetone penetrating oil for a couple of years with scepticism. Finally tried it and now refer to it as "miracle penetrating oil" so often that my wife thought it was a brand like WD40, etc and have been using it for years.

Recently disassembled an old car that was rusted out up to the windows, using ATF/acetone. The best I've ever used in all my life. Try it; I bet you'll like it.

Treat all flammables with the same caution that you keep your gasoline, laquer thinner, alcohol, etc.

DJ

wittsend
08-28-2014, 03:13 PM
I've tried the Acetone / ATF 50/50 mixture and got ZERO results. I repeatedly applied it to the rusted nuts and bolts at least 10 times over a 48 hour period. It did not wick into anything. I even tried applying heat, then additional Acetone/ATF (BTW, nothing blew up) to no avail. I eventually cut the bolts off and then cut the nuts lengthwise just to prove there was no penetration. The only reason I can attribute it not working (other than it just doesn't work) is that I'm a 'Certified crash test dummy for Murphy's Law.'

Don Jeffers
08-28-2014, 11:33 PM
I've tried the Acetone / ATF 50/50 mixture and got ZERO results. I repeatedly applied it to the rusted nuts and bolts at least 10 times over a 48 hour period.

I have no explanation for your lack of results.

I let it soak 24 hours if a part is particularly frozen. You did that.

I start a connection gently in the tighten direction, and then back and forth to loosen. Add more ATF/acetone.

I also shock the nut/bolt with a hammer and blunt ended large punch if it is a larger connection.

An electric impact wrench will often shock a nut loose.

Occasionally I use a oxy/acetylene torch to heat a nut. I guess you know all this anyway.

I also pray for clarity of mind.

One abject failure I've had was trying to get broken exhaust manifold bolts out of Cad 500 heads. No luck with ATF/acetone, torch, vise grips and hammer shock.

I had to remove the heads and take them to a first class "real" machine shop to have the broken bolts removed without drilling out the threads and using inserts. (It went back together with studs.)

Considering your "zero results", I can only say ATF/acetone works better for me than any commercial penetrating oil I have ever used.

Here's wishing you better luck in the future.

SilverHawkDan
08-28-2014, 11:57 PM
One of the things I learned about Marvel Mystery Oil is that it is activated by heat. an engineer friend shared that with me. When heated it will actually dissolve carbon and rust. That is why the company sold the injector units that injected a small amount into the engine while running. It kept the engine carbon free in the cylinders. So the last time I had a stuck engine I heated up the Marvel and poured it into the spark plug holes. The very next day the engine turned over by hand. That engine eventually fired up and ran great and is still running today. Was I lucky? I don't know as I have not had a chance to try it again but I am looking for a project to try it on. I think the engine for the '47 will be the next one.
Dan

Skip Lackie
08-29-2014, 06:50 PM
I mixed some acetone and ATF 50 - 50 as suggested. Problem was, it melted the bottom of my plastic spray bottle and ran all over the barn floor before I could use it.

Yeah, I tried to save a little gasoline in a styrofoam coffee cup once -- I don't think it even slowed down on its way through the bottom of that cup. Anyway, with acetone, use only glass or metal containers -- no petrochemicals.