Packard Hawk at Mecum Kissimmee

[hausdok]

A P.H. goes on the block in about an hour and a half at Kissimmee (Currently Lot #45 the P.H. is Lot #97.1). It's described as red with a new interior and wire wheels and radials. I suspect it's the same one that was for sale in Ohio for a couple of years before it sold for a little over a year ago. That one had a new interior and radial tires with chrome spoked wheels and a black top. There is no picture on the site so I guess we'll see.

[SN-60]

I suspect 'Big Bucks'!!

[hausdok]

It sold for $80,000.

If it's the one that was for sale for so long in Ohio it's had the roof and the faux continental spare cover repainted to match the rest of the car.

[SN-60]

Might be a different PH. This one's engine colors were all wrong....but overall the car sure was pretty!

[studegary]

It sold for $80,000.

I thought that the high bid was $80,000, but it did not sell, at least on the auction block. The vehicles that do not sell on the block go to special area where negotiations continue and some sales are made.

[hausdok]

Hi Gary,

You could be right, I was on the phone with a prospective client at the time trying to juggle my appointment book, the phone and the mouse while looking at the screen. I can't recall if the gavel came down on "sold" or "closed." I'll check the results and get back here.

Moments later......You are right Gary. It did not sell. It's listed on the Mecum site as High Bid: $80,000 so I guess if anyone has a little bit of spare coin in their pocket they can contact the seller and see if they can hit his reserve price.

FYI I saw that vehicle announced for the Mecum action about a month ago and I contacted Mecum for more information and asked for pictures. I got an answer back on January 6 from a dhoffman@mecumauctions where they told me they didn't have the VIN number or any pictures and said that they'd reach out to the seller and get back to me. I never heard another word.

It kind of bothered me that they didn't have any photos or other information. It later occurred to me that perhaps the seller hangs out here and the reason that there was no information available is that he didn't want the car picked apart here, where other S-P folks who might be interested in buying would see it, for fear criticisms here might cause folks to keep their offers low. Folks here, including me, have been a little brutal here with criticism of cars at auctions and on Ebay and CL. If that's why the seller held that info back I guess one couldn't blame him/her.

[SN-60]

Hi Gary,

You could be right, I was on the phone with a prospective client at the time trying to juggle my appointment book, the phone and the mouse while looking at the screen. I can't recall if the gavel came down on "sold" or "closed." I'll check the results and get back here.

Moments later......You are right Gary. It did not sell. It's listed on the Mecum site as High Bid: $80,000 so I guess if anyone has a little bit of spare coin in their pocket they can contact the seller and see if they can hit his reserve price.

FYI I saw that vehicle announced for the Mecum action about a month ago and I contacted Mecum for more information and asked for pictures. I got an answer back on January 6 from a dhoffman@mecumauctions where they told me they didn't have the VIN number or any pictures and said that they'd reach out to the seller and get back to me. I never heard another word.

It kind of bothered me that they didn't have any photos or other information. It later occurred to me that perhaps the seller hangs out here and the reason that there was no information available is that he didn't want the car picked apart here, where other S-P folks who might be interested in buying would see it, for fear criticisms here might cause folks to keep their offers low. Folks here, including me, have been a little brutal here with criticism of cars at auctions and on Ebay and CL. If that's why the seller held that info back I guess one couldn't blame him/her.

I understand why it would bother You that Mecum never got back with that Packard Hawk info. But I must say that I see a big 'Red Flag' if the owner of this car, or ANY car, actually avoided displaying or discussing it here on this forum, for fear one of us would honestly question something about the car, thereby lowering his profit.

[hausdok]

Why a red flag?

Let's say I buy a Stude somewhere and I fix it up. Maybe it's not perfect but it's mechanically and structurally sound and I'm happy with it. Maybe I think I've done a good job. Then I decide to sell it and I list it with an auction company and I put a really fair reserve on it. Within an hour or two of it being listed, someone here sees the ad, alerts the brethren and then the nit picking starts. Maybe there's a fellow that sees my stude in the auction catalog and he likes what the car looks like. He doesn't know jack about Studes though. He decides to get on the net and do a little research. He googles the model that I'm selling and WHAM, he finds the discussion wherein everyone here is nit picking every little item on my car. Now, to you guys here, your criticisms might not seem like much and you might not in your own mind expect those little things to lower the value much - you might even state that here on the forum. However, that fellow isn't you - he isn't familiar with Studes. He loves the look of the car and he really wants to buy it, but those trivial little mole hills you are picking at look like mountains to him. Now, instead of bidding on my car he's bidding on someone else's car; or, if he does bid on my car maybe he low balls the heck out of me, forcing me to either take off the reserve or return home with the car unsold and some auction fees to pay.

That's be a bad day, especially if the car was pretty decent and I'd priced it fairly.

[Bill Pressler]

What seems like nit-picking to some is simply being honest and informative to others.

Is it better to say 'Shhh! Don't tell anybody about that' and allow the prospective buyer to think it's as-built-by-Studebaker? I don't know. I'm big on full-disclosure.

[JDP]

What seems like nit-picking to some is simply being honest and informative to others.

Is it better to say 'Shhh! Don't tell anybody about that' and allow the prospective buyer to think it's as-built-by-Studebaker? I don't know. I'm big on full-disclosure.

That happened many years ago after the fact. A lady paid over 50K for a 57 Golden Hawk "show Car" at a Kruse auction. It had lots of GT Hawk add-ons like the seats and so on.They even had a letter from a ex Studebaker dealer documenting the "history" of the car. We discussed the car here or on the news group and the lady got wind of it and tried to recover from Kruse for the obvious misrepresentation.

[SN-60]

Why a red flag?

Let's say I buy a Stude somewhere and I fix it up. Maybe it's not perfect but it's mechanically and structurally sound and I'm happy with it. Maybe I think I've done a good job. Then I decide to sell it and I list it with an auction company and I put a really fair reserve on it. Within an hour or two of it being listed, someone here sees the ad, alerts the brethren and then the nit picking starts. Maybe there's a fellow that sees my stude in the auction catalog and he likes what the car looks like. He doesn't know jack about Studes though. He decides to get on the net and do a little research. He googles the model that I'm selling and WHAM, he finds the discussion wherein everyone here is nit picking every little item on my car. Now, to you guys here, your criticisms might not seem like much and you might not in your own mind expect those little things to lower the value much - you might even state that here on the forum. However, that fellow isn't you - he isn't familiar with Studes. He loves the look of the car and he really wants to buy it, but those trivial little mole hills you are picking at look like mountains to him. Now, instead of bidding on my car he's bidding on someone else's car; or, if he does bid on my car maybe he low balls the heck out of me, forcing me to either take off the reserve or return home with the car unsold and some auction fees to pay.

That's be a bad day, especially if the car was pretty decent and I'd priced it fairly.

hausdok...You are obviously 'Pro-Seller', whereas I am obviously 'Pro-Buyer'. That's OK..to each his own! But let Me toss out an idea that I do not think You've thought of.....What if the 'nit-pickers' as You call them notice something about the vehicle or its history that the seller hasn't listed in his ad.....something that actually INCREASES the value of the vehicle,....Believe Me, that very thing happened recently with a friend of Mine's sale of a 1964 Studebaker Avanti! No, in My eyes the 'Open Book Policy' is the ONLY way to go!

[Packard8]

That happened many years ago after the fact. A lady paid over 50K for a 57 Golden Hawk "show Car" at a Kruse auction. It had lots of GT Hawk add-ons like the seats and so on.They even had a letter from a ex Studebaker dealer documenting the "history" of the car. We discussed the car here or on the news group and the lady got wind of it and tried to recover from Kruse for the obvious misrepresentation.

If that's the same "Show Hawk" from Northern CA, it was at a local SDC meet years ago. GT seats & dash, remote oil filter, aftermarket A/C etc. The then owner swore it was all "factory". Fred Fox was at the meet and when asked about the authenticity he just smiled like a true gentleman.

[SN-60]

If that's the same "Show Hawk" from Northern CA, it was at a local SDC meet years ago. GT seats & dash, remote oil filter, aftermarket A/C etc. The then owner swore it was all "factory". Fred Fox was at the meet and when asked about the authenticity he just smiled like a true gentleman.

A good example of a Studebaker that should have been shown and discussed here on this forum.....We could have saved that lady THOUSANDS!

[StudeDave57]

A good example of a Studebaker that should have been shown and discussed here on this forum.....We could have saved that lady THOUSANDS!

Re-read John's post Ed- we DID discuss that car here.
Other stuff happened as well, but you have read John's post.

edited to add-
I believe posts 10 & 12 are talking about the same car, yes.
That's how I remember it.
Craig will find it and/or correct our memories...




StudeDave '57

[hausdok]

Hi,

Yeah, I guess in this case I am pro-seller; with my argument anyway.

FWIW I'm actually very pro buyer and I do believe in full disclosure. I do pro buyer week in and week out year after year for a living - I inspect homes for buyers.

You want to talk about full disclosure? I could go on for days describing some of the lowdown and dirty underhanded stuff I've seen sellers and their agents try to pull to move houses. It never seems to end; as soon as one trick gets revealed to the public at large they come up with another. I'm known to agents around town as a "deal killer." That's OK though, 'cuz I get better than 95% of my referrals from past clients and that keeps me busy enough that I regularly have to turn down folks whose schedule I can't accommodate because I'm booked too far out.

I sure didn't intend to be the seller's advocate; I had just tried to rationalize in my own mind why a buyer who was being honest about his car might not want to put that information out there until the car rolled off the trailer at the auction. That was a theory that seemed to fit. Heck, maybe the seller's reasons really have nothing to do with my theory; it was just something I'd pondered and shared.