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am not r2
01-14-2014, 05:43 AM
found on C.R.


http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/4284539955.html

Gunslinger
01-14-2014, 06:24 AM
If that's a genuine SuperHawk, it deserves to be saved as it's one rare bird. I wish I was in a position to make an offer. I hope someone does.

BobPalma
01-14-2014, 06:36 AM
1964 Hawk #64V15220 was indeed built as a full-package Super Hawk: R1 / Powershift, Bermuda Brown with Brown Vinyl Interior and Reclining Seats.

Shipped to Babylon NY and fairly plain otherwise; no power steering and just manual-tune radio, Climatizer, whitewall tires, wheel covers, and undercoat! 'Surprising that it even had reclining seats. :D

Come to think of it, that might have been one of the lowest-sticker-price Super Hawks built in 1964; a real oddity, but a real Super Hawk, too. :!:

As near as can figure it, it probably came in under $4,000 on the sticker: I compute an MSRP of $3,879.28 plus freight, since I don't know what the freight would have been.

I doubt that freight would have bumped the MSRP over $4,000, however, so this car had to be one few genuine Super Hawks with a sticker under $4,000...maybe the only one, for all we know. :ohmy: BP

8E45E
01-14-2014, 06:55 AM
Come to think of it, that might have been one of the lowest-sticker-price Super Hawks built in 1964; a real oddity, but a real Super Hawk, too.

But LESS WEIGHT in an R-series can be an advantage!!

Craig

BobPalma
01-14-2014, 07:13 AM
But LESS WEIGHT in an R-series can be an advantage! Craig

Uh-oh, and it is Bermuda Brown.

'Better not tell cousin George Krem, eh? ;) BP

jackb
01-14-2014, 07:49 AM
....just curious.... what's that irregular "cut" in the bell housing near the mounting holes ??

BobPalma
01-14-2014, 08:29 AM
Golly, I just noticed the asking price: $3,500.

If you could inventory 'most everything being there with it, it's gotta be worth that money all day long. Gee...:D BP

SScopelli
01-14-2014, 08:43 AM
....just curious.... what's that irregular "cut" in the bell housing near the mounting holes ??

Not really irregular, just not cleaned up from the casting. The automatic transmissions use air cooling of the torque-converter and that is a vent hole. Being a power-shift it probably also had cooler lines to the radiator.


Uh-oh, and it is Bermuda Brown.

'Better not tell cousin George Krem, eh? ;) BP



I have a hard time saying Brown after Bermuda.. Should have been "Bermuda Blue" and maybe "Plain Brown"

53commander
01-14-2014, 10:48 AM
I wish it was a little closer I could go take a look if anyone was interested but it's a little too far south for me.

candbstudebakers
01-14-2014, 10:57 AM
64 super hawk it needs to be saved and looks to be a good investment for the price, like so many people on the east coast always say if it was not so far away it would e in my garage now, well here it is on the east coast why is it still on the CL???

guyina4x4
01-14-2014, 06:59 PM
I'd sure like a GT Hawk.
I'm just not at a place to make it happen right now

sals54
01-14-2014, 10:09 PM
64 super hawk it needs to be saved and looks to be a good investment for the price, like so many people on the east coast always say if it was not so far away it would e in my garage now, well here it is on the east coast why is it still on the CL???

Right on Bob. My thoughts exactly. Step up East Coasters. Save this car. Its the cheapest Super Hawk you'll ever see. And one of the most fun to drive.

PlainBrownR2
01-14-2014, 10:30 PM
You know how many '64 Bermuda Brown Hawks are floating around? For that matter, you know how many '64 Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks are floating around? I only know of one of the regular Hawks in that color, and the owner is in our Chapter! :D
Don't let the color fool you, it's a really sharp color on that car, so somebody needs to pick up this car and finish the restoration! :cool:

packardHawk58
01-14-2014, 10:38 PM
John, I don't know why it hasn't been snapped up. 60 cars produced approx. 20 left. If I hadn't bought Joe Zeiger's R 1 (better colour scheme) that Hawk would be on its way to OZ by now.

8E45E
01-14-2014, 10:40 PM
You know how many '64 Bermuda Brown Hawks are floating around? For that matter, you know how many '64 Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks are floating around?

Here's its California counterpart: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67899-64-Super-Hawk-progress&highlight=bermuda+super

Craig

am not r2
01-20-2014, 12:10 PM
1964 Hawk #64V15220 was indeed built as a full-package Super Hawk: R1 / Powershift, Bermuda Brown with Brown Vinyl Interior and Reclining Seats.

Shipped to Babylon NY and fairly plain otherwise; no power steering and just manual-tune radio, Climatizer, whitewall tires, wheel covers, and undercoat! 'Surprising that it even had reclining seats. :D

Come to think of it, that might have been one of the lowest-sticker-price Super Hawks built in 1964; a real oddity, but a real Super Hawk, too. :!:

As near as can figure it, it probably came in under $4,000 on the sticker: I compute an MSRP of $3,879.28 plus freight, since I don't know what the freight would have been.

I doubt that freight would have bumped the MSRP over $4,000, however, so this car had to be one few genuine Super Hawks with a sticker under $4,000...maybe the only one, for all we know. :ohmy: BP

I am going to save this one.....I have the time and space but maybe not the talent to do this all myself but I am going to try.I called today and I am working on the logistics of moving all of it to Glenville ny....(fools rush in where...).....Rich

Bob. How do you know all this? I have the monographs, you have the goods! How?

8E45E
01-20-2014, 01:01 PM
I am going to save this one.....I have the time and space but maybe not the talent to do this all myself but I am going to try.

The BEST NEWS I've heard this month so far!! Best of luck!

After following your story of successfully finding a home for the Jet Green one a few years ago, you do deserve a second chance at owning another R-series Hawk!

Craig

am not r2
01-20-2014, 01:58 PM
Thanks for that. I was not able to save that one (an r2 pkg car). That found a home in OZ...hope to see it again someday. Now I have a new 4 stall garage and space and time...none of which I have ever had before. This time I know I can save it and restore and learn. The Mohawk chapter has some great members that I will be able to ask questions of and of course I have this forum...which is always full of.....wisdom.
My boys are 13 and 15 now and I think they have been bitten by the old car bug. This should be good for all of us.



Wish it was not winter. I don't have an enclosed trailer so I have to plan carefully so the trip home is not a salt bath....Rich

swvalcon
01-20-2014, 02:27 PM
If any one that picks it needs a restoration shop for the body and frame I'am in the market at $35. per hour times time spent. Just in case.

BobPalma
01-20-2014, 02:29 PM
I am going to save this one.....I have the time and space but maybe not the talent to do this all myself but I am going to try.I called today and I am working on the logistics of moving all of it to Glenville ny....(fools rush in where...).....Rich

Bob. How do you know all this? I have the monographs, you have the goods! How?

Congratulations on the purchase and "salvation," Rich; that is good news indeed. :!: Cool beans!

The car very much looks worthy of your time, money, and effort. With your new facilities and two young 'uns to help move things around, you're all set. What a great time you'll have...just don't get in a hurry or bore the kids. ;)

As to your direct question, I'd better not answer that. :whome: Let's just say that when you've been around this more than 50 of your 67 years, you develop -ahem- "sources." ;) :woot: Thanks for your understanding and, again, best wishes with the project. :cool: BP

57pack
01-20-2014, 03:10 PM
Indeed great news! I live in NJ and toyed with the idea of grabbing the Super Hawk.
But, there's always that but, I don't have the space. A car apart takes up a lot of space!
So happy a member has it, and it didn't wind up in China.:!:

8E45E
01-22-2014, 07:24 AM
1964 Hawk #64V15220 was indeed built as a full-package Super Hawk: R1 / Powershift, Bermuda Brown with Brown Vinyl Interior and Reclining Seats.

Shipped to Babylon NY and fairly plain otherwise; no power steering and just manual-tune radio, Climatizer, whitewall tires, wheel covers, and undercoat! 'Surprising that it even had reclining seats.

Could this be the car Gary mentioned in Post #15 here? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?51280-Orphan-of-the-Day-05-15-1953-Hudson-Hornet&highlight=hudson

Craig

handworn
01-22-2014, 11:06 AM
That's good to know about, if I should ever buy one up in your neck of the woods. (Is there a list-of-recommended-restorers thread somewhere? If so, it should be stickied.)


If any one that picks it needs a restoration shop for the body and frame I'am in the market at $35. per hour times time spent. Just in case.

warrlaw1
01-22-2014, 11:47 AM
Attaboy, am not r2. Anything that you are missing will probably turn up at York or South Bend swap meets. Now the fun begins.

Roscomacaw
01-22-2014, 11:52 AM
PlainBrownR2 writes: "You know how many '64 Bermuda Brown Hawks are floating around? For that matter, you know how many '64 Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks are floating around? I only know of one of the regular Hawks in that color, and the owner is in our Chapter!
Don't let the color fool you, it's a really sharp color on that car, so somebody needs to pick up this car and finish the restoration! "

I'm gonna ask Bob Palma to comment on Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks here. He just discovered something about them at my behest. Bob...?

studegary
01-23-2014, 09:11 AM
Could this be the car Gary mentioned in Post #15 here? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?51280-Orphan-of-the-Day-05-15-1953-Hudson-Hornet&highlight=hudson

Craig

Not likely unless it was a dealer swap. That is possible because Babylon is only about 110 miles from Hopewell Junction, NY where my friend lived. I do not know where he bought the car (new).

It is more likely the 1964 Hawk that I looked at many years ago on the side of Route 9W on the west side of the Hudson River, near Marlboro, that I mentioned in another post/topic.

BobPalma
01-23-2014, 09:21 AM
PlainBrownR2 writes: "You know how many '64 Bermuda Brown Hawks are floating around? For that matter, you know how many '64 Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks are floating around? I only know of one of the regular Hawks in that color, and the owner is in our Chapter!
Don't let the color fool you, it's a really sharp color on that car, so somebody needs to pick up this car and finish the restoration! "

I'm gonna ask Bob Palma to comment on Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks here. He just discovered something about them at my behest. Bob...?

As Bob suggested, research showed that 41 1964 Hawks were built with High-Performance Package R1 and Powershift automatic transmission.

Of those 41, 12 were Bermuda Brown. BP

8E45E
01-23-2014, 01:07 PM
Not likely unless it was a dealer swap. That is possible because Babylon is only about 110 miles from Hopewell Junction, NY where my friend lived. I do not know where he bought the car (new).

It is more likely the 1964 Hawk that I looked at many years ago on the side of Route 9W on the west side of the Hudson River, near Marlboro, that I mentioned in another post/topic.

Yep, you did mention in this post your buddy's was Jet Green. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?69410-R1-Package-car-for-sale-in-San-Francisco&highlight=marlboro

and maybe the same car as here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?52822-Love-to-have-this-Hawk&highlight=marlboro

Craig

PlainBrownR2
01-23-2014, 05:19 PM
As Bob suggested, research showed that 41 1964 Hawks were built with High-Performance Package R1 and Powershift automatic transmission.

Of those 41, 12 were Bermuda Brown. BP
Extrapolate those figures out to represent the modern day, where these vehicles were scrapped, crashed, or squirreled away, and probably only a few of those Hawks now remain. That, and everybody wants the Red, Black, White, and Blue ones, but nobody wants the piddly Brown and Green, bread and butter colors that Studebaker also offered. :ohmy:

JDP
01-23-2014, 05:57 PM
You know how many '64 Bermuda Brown Hawks are floating around? For that matter, you know how many '64 Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks are floating around? I only know of one of the regular Hawks in that color, and the owner is in our Chapter! :D
Don't let the color fool you, it's a really sharp color on that car, so somebody needs to pick up this car and finish the restoration! :cool:

Here's one I restored:


http://www.stude.com/Bermuda/

1962larksedan
01-23-2014, 06:36 PM
Extrapolate those figures out to represent the modern day, where these vehicles were scrapped, crashed, or squirreled away, and probably only a few of those Hawks now remain. That, and everybody wants the Red, Black, White, and Blue ones, but nobody wants the piddly Brown and Green, bread and butter colors that Studebaker also offered. :ohmy:

Why the (rhetorical) 'hate' against brown cars? That question being directed towards John Q Public; not us here in the SDC. :)

Frankly I happen to like chocolate/bean pot brown as a car color. :)

Gunslinger
01-23-2014, 06:46 PM
Color is so subjective. I think the Bermuda Brown looks great on a GT. Some colors simply look good on some cars and not so good on others. As much as I love Avantis, I've seen some painted some hideous colors...not even considering the gaudy and tasteless interiors I've seen some from the '70s sported from the factory.

PlainBrownR2
01-23-2014, 06:56 PM
Here's one I restored:


http://www.stude.com/Bermuda/


Very nice! That chocolate color really is sharp on that car! :D

8E45E
01-23-2014, 07:00 PM
Here's one I restored:


http://www.stude.com/Bermuda/

I guess that yours, Bob's and Rich's now makes three R1 Bermuda Brown examples that are known to still exist. (at least here on the Forum) That is 25% of production.

Craig

am not r2
01-23-2014, 07:26 PM
jdp I wish I had your talent. that is a real sharp car.



going to NJ in the morning to make the deal and bring home my prize. I still have my 64 hawk R1 4 speed(strato blue). My wife does not drive stick(well) so I was thinking I would try to make it her car....She liked the idea of saving it....If someone wants this project (closer to spring please) They can have it for what ever I pay for it. if no one jumps in I will do what I can when I can. It may take a while to finish but it will NOT BE PARTED OUT!
I used to have some figures from the Jet Thrust group on how many of the 64's are still whole and with us. Does anybody have current figures? Have we accounted for them all? My interest is naturally in the 64's but I love all the package cars...tooo cool.
we invented that you know.

BobPalma
01-23-2014, 08:39 PM
I guess that yours, Bob's and Rich's now makes three R1 Bermuda Brown examples that are known to still exist. (at least here on the Forum) That is 25% of production. Craig

To confirm, Craig; I only counted full package R1/Powershift Hawks in Bermuda Brown.

There are undoubtedly other Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks that are non-package and/or 4-speed cars. :) BP

BobPalma
01-23-2014, 08:43 PM
Color is so subjective. I think the Bermuda Brown looks great on a GT. Some colors simply look good on some cars and not so good on others. As much as I love Avantis, I've seen some painted some hideous colors...not even considering the gaudy and tasteless interiors I've seen some from the '70s sported from the factory.

Absolutely, Bruce. I love the Medium Bright Yellow on my 1973 Mustang convertible, but it would look hideous on my 1972 Buick LeSabre Custom Convertible.
Or, could you imagine my 1971 Barracuda convertible's bright orange on my 1964 Daytona convertible? :eek: :QQ: :oops: BP

JDP
01-24-2014, 06:24 AM
I guess that yours, Bob's and Rich's now makes three R1 Bermuda Brown examples that are known to still exist. (at least here on the Forum) That is 25% of production.

Craig

I don't think my old car was a package car or I would have added the grill badge.

8E45E
01-24-2014, 07:03 AM
To confirm, Craig; I only counted full package R1/Powershift Hawks in Bermuda Brown.

There are undoubtedly other Bermuda Brown R1 Hawks that are non-package and/or 4-speed cars. :) BP



Ah, gotcha....as JP confirmed!

Can't remember when the last update of surviving R-powered Larks and Hawks was done, but I know it has been at least five or more years, and several more have been found since.

Craig

studegary
01-24-2014, 04:45 PM
Yep, you did mention in this post your buddy's was Jet Green. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?69410-R1-Package-car-for-sale-in-San-Francisco&highlight=marlboro

and maybe the same car as here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?52822-Love-to-have-this-Hawk&highlight=marlboro

Craig

Since even Craig seems confused on these Hawks, that I have referred to, at this point, I will make a list.
1) A friend in Hopewell Junction, NY that I worked with and went to college with bought an R1 1964 Hawk new. His is the one that he bought all NOS interior and exterior for and then never put them together due to divorce and moving.
2) A friend in Gardiner, NY bought an R1 1964 Hawk new. His was the Jet Green car mentioned. Among other Studebakers, he also bought a new 1957 Transtar with V8 and AT.
3) A guy that was the father of a lady that Cathy worked with bought an R series 1964 Hawk new. He resided in Hyde Park, NY. He had purchased a new Hawk every year from 1956 to 1964. He bought two new 1964 Hawks. The first was an R series, I think R2, and the second was the base engine. I bought the second 1964 Hawk from him. I later sold it to a guy in NJ that restored it. It was/is a black car.
4) This is the 1964 Hawk that I saw for sale along Rt. 9W near Marlboro, NY.
That makes five 1964 Hawks within about 15 miles of where I now reside.
I can remember four 1964 Hawks, not the four mentioned above, showing up at one Hudson Valley Chapter, SDC annual meet.

8E45E
01-24-2014, 05:13 PM
That makes five 1964 Hawks within about 15 miles of where I now reside.

Wow!! Sounds like you were in '64 Hawk Heaven! :)

Craig

am not r2
01-24-2014, 08:02 PM
my wife has told me that I need to say publicly that she is the greatest wife in the word and that I am a lucky guy. she is and I am.

I got the R1 home tonight. It's all inside out of the snow that held off just long enough. Lots of parts and boxes and and and. I learned more of the car's story. very interesting. It has been to europe and back, passed thru very few hands. it was sold to a man who promised that it would be finished someday. He made me promise too.
How cool is that?

BobPalma
01-24-2014, 08:35 PM
Excellent, Rich.

I think we can honestly say that The SDC Forum helped save this car. That's good news; it apparently deserved it.

Thanks again for this important contribution to the Studebaker hobby, Rich. :!!: BP

ert62 hawlk
01-24-2014, 10:31 PM
am not r2--I sent you a PM

SScopelli
01-29-2014, 09:50 AM
Rich,

From what I've seen of the pictures, you are in for some big surprises.. And Good ones at that.

I'm speculating that the engine block is a replacement or has had the bottom end rebuilt.
Also many new parts..

Not a big Fan of the Hawk.. Sorry for saying that John. But you know I'm a Lark guy and you know I even turned down a great deal on an Avanti.

am not r2
04-16-2014, 07:53 PM
Sorry it has been so long to get an up date on this but the cold and has been unrelenting. Too cold to work or play in the garage. Now that I have had time to really look the car over I know I am in over my head. I don't have the talent. It is not that the car needs extra ordinary work. It needs time. Time a working father of two cannot justify. I just know this is going to sit and gather dust.
So here it is, This hawk is going to be sold. Just for what I spent to get it here(not a lot). I am asking you forum members to ask around at your local chapter meetings if someone has a good home for this car. I will help with any logistics I can. I am going to get more pictures in a photo bucket or page in the next few days. This is a car worth saving, we did that. It is a real deal R1 package car with a clear title. Who wants to take it home and finish it? Rich

I am not in a hurry, but I might suggest you go to Schenectady County instead of South Bend this year. The bargain is here!

ed ellis
04-16-2014, 09:38 PM
[QUOTE=BobPalma;815495]As Bob suggested, research showed that 41 1964 Hawks were built with High-Performance Package R1 and Powershift automatic transmission.

Of those 41, 12 were Bermuda Brown.

Bob, almost 30% of the above were done in brown? I realize taste changes over the years but that ratio makes me wonder if UPS or some State Police agency was using them in a fleet.

I don't know about you out there in Hoosier land but as a car crazy 18 year old in 1964 I can't remember many brown cars on the road in Baltimore from any manufacturer. Ed

studegary
04-17-2014, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=BobPalma;815495]As Bob suggested, research showed that 41 1964 Hawks were built with High-Performance Package R1 and Powershift automatic transmission.

Of those 41, 12 were Bermuda Brown.

Bob, almost 30% of the above were done in brown? I realize taste changes over the years but that ratio makes me wonder if UPS or some State Police agency was using them in a fleet.

I don't know about you out there in Hoosier land but as a car crazy 18 year old in 1964 I can't remember many brown cars on the road in Baltimore from any manufacturer. Ed

I agree, Ed. I didn't know anyone that bought new brown cars then and I still do not buy new brown cars. For 1964, my father bought medium turquoise and I bought dark blue. A friend bought a new 1964 Hawk in dark green. Now that looked good.

EDIT: I am a "bit" older than you, but I was also car crazy then and still am. I am planning on going to the NY Auto Show next week.

qsanford
04-17-2014, 03:50 PM
I think that some colors were more popular in different areas of the country. The browns and "earth tone" colors were probably more popular in the Southwestern areas. My Uncle and Aunt from California had a Lincoln Versailles in a Russet brown color that I had never seen on a local Lincoln.

8E45E
04-17-2014, 05:24 PM
The browns and "earth tone" colors were probably more popular in the Southwestern areas. My Uncle and Aunt from California had a Lincoln Versailles in a Russet brown color that I had never seen on a local Lincoln.

Now that was the '70's!! I remember LOTS of medium-to-dark brown cars around that time; especially Lincolns, and your 'personal luxury' cars such as Chrysler Cordobas.

Craig

am not r2
04-18-2014, 06:48 AM
Monarchs and Granadas on my streeet and a few Dusters...

studegary
04-18-2014, 01:24 PM
Now that was the '70's!! I remember LOTS of medium-to-dark brown cars around that time; especially Lincolns, and your 'personal luxury' cars such as Chrysler Cordobas.

Craig

My 1975 Cordoba was dark green metallic with white leather bucket seats.

8E45E
04-18-2014, 02:58 PM
My 1975 Cordoba was dark green metallic with white leather bucket seats.

Nice as the Cordobas are, what spoils them are those awful 5mph that dogged most North American market cars from that era. If I had the room, and more interest in a 70's era car, I would get one of these which has the look of a Cordoba at the front, but with bumpers that look like they actually belong on it. http://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/detail/cars/cars/ford/ltd/115439

Craig