PDA

View Full Version : 1929 "458"(?) Dictator coupe on ebay



southbend
12-08-2013, 09:26 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-458-dictator-coupe-good-1929-studebaker-dictator-coupe-/271341572222?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3f2d37d07e&item=271341572222&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Anyone know what the seller might mean by a "458"? Nice car. Hope it goes to a good home and stays "as is" (oops, my bias is showing again!:)). Too bad my garage is full and my hobby funds depleted.

EssexExport
12-08-2013, 09:45 AM
Seems reasonable enough.

southbend
12-08-2013, 09:48 AM
I just went back to the posting on ebay. In the Q&A the seller states that the "VIN" (I guess he means serial number) is 45831. I guess that is where the "458" comes from.

WinM1895
12-08-2013, 09:50 AM
The sellers so called '1940 Ford coupe' is actually a 1941 tudor sedan.

JEWELL
12-08-2013, 02:17 PM
The sellers so called '1940 Ford coupe' is actually a 1941 tudor sedan.

Not so good with numbers so 458 could be anything.

stephenj
12-08-2013, 04:02 PM
If that is the VIN it is probably a Commander GJ not a Dictator

jnormanh
12-08-2013, 05:53 PM
Whatever it really is, it's in amazing condition, and would be an easy resto.

Skybolt
12-08-2013, 06:58 PM
What a hoot it would be to drive that as a daily driver. I would only consider restoring it if something necessitated some major work then but only if it could not be done without changing the look of an original condition car otherwise I would repair the problem and keep driving it. Why not get the most out of it before the restoration. It could go through many hands before then. I could enjoy the original car and maybe never have to spend more time or money other than maintenance. JMHO. ~(;^)

Studebaker Wheel
12-09-2013, 07:05 PM
The body number on the car is GE Q1 632, the serial number 1452453. It would technically be a 1928 Studebaker Dictator model GE third design business coupe. The coupe body was not offered until relatively late in the production run. The real unusual thing is the disc wheels. Most had either wood spokes or wire wheels. Never saw one with the disc.

Flashback
12-09-2013, 07:16 PM
I don't care what year it is or what model. If I had money to spend, I know what it's new address would be.

Studebaker Wheel
12-09-2013, 07:31 PM
I don't care what year it is or what model. If I had money to spend, I know what it's new address would be.

Yes, it is a neat car. Very nice to see them in their original unrestored and unmolested state. That being said the Dictator Six model GE had a 242 c.i., 50 horsepower engine. They were geared quite low and a comfortable road speed may have been in the 35-40mph range. Nice for parades and such but some people are disappointed when they cannot keep up with modern traffic.

studefan
12-09-2013, 07:39 PM
Mr. Quinn, can you please comment on the thread with the 1915 roadster for sale. Its halfway down the page. I am really curious about what it really is.

JRoberts
12-09-2013, 07:40 PM
That car could really be fun, even if it is slow. It is cool to see a fairly unmolested Studebaker from that period.

Flashback
12-09-2013, 08:53 PM
Yes, it is a neat car. Very nice to see them in their original unrestored and unmolested state. That being said the Dictator Six model GE had a 242 c.i., 50 horsepower engine. They were geared quite low and a comfortable road speed may have been in the 35-40mph range. Nice for parades and such but some people are disappointed when they cannot keep up with modern traffic.

Let me see now where did I put that old Hone overdrive unit. Let me look over in this corner. LOL

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/MYRACESHOPampDADSOLDSTUFF019_zps6875cd0a.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/MYRACESHOPampDADSOLDSTUFF019_zps6875cd0a.jpg.html)

289stude
12-09-2013, 09:08 PM
Yes, it is a neat car. Very nice to see them in their original unrestored and unmolested state. That being said the Dictator Six model GE had a 242 c.i., 50 horsepower engine. They were geared quite low and a comfortable road speed may have been in the 35-40mph range. Nice for parades and such but some people are disappointed when they cannot keep up with modern traffic.

ad says he's had it up to 50 and still had more to go???

Studebaker Wheel
12-10-2013, 12:35 AM
ad says he's had it up to 50 and still had more to go???

And you believe in the tooth fairy!! Sure it will go 50. In fact it will probably do 60. Note that I state "a comfortable road speed may have been in the 35-40mph range." Once you buy it let me know its top speed.

southbend
12-10-2013, 06:31 AM
ad says he's had it up to 50 and still had more to go???

It will probably do 70 mph--going down a steep incline in neutral with the wind behind you! Of course, I still believe in the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, and Santa Claus. LOL. :) I agree, it's a nice example of an unmolested earlier Studebaker. Prewar cars in this condition are virtually impossible to find today. So many have been restored to original factory specifications or modified to varying degrees. It's nice to see one as it came from the factory (mostly). Again, I do hope the new owner keeps the car "as is" with the exception of mechanical repairs to make it roadworthy. Besides, if you restored it, you'd be "upside down" financially before you knew it. I'm still wondering what the "45831" number refers to, especially since Mr. Quinn reports that the serial number is 1452453. Perhaps it's the number stamped on the engine?

Studebaker Wheel
12-10-2013, 10:32 AM
The engine number is GE45831.

jclary
12-10-2013, 10:55 AM
So...what would be so bad about finding one of those later model top loader overdrive transmissions and adapting it to this car? It would give the engine a rest, provide better traffic speed, and not really harm the appearance of the car. 'Cept for probably having to build a drive shaft with proper length...it might even bolt up? Anybody know about the bolt patterns of the older engines? Even if it wouldn't...probably not rocket science to make an adapter plate for the bell-housing and a trip to your local machine shop to have a pilot shaft bushing adapter machined. If I bought the car, that would be a definite modification with no apologies to anyone.

2R5
12-10-2013, 11:29 AM
Then all you'd have to worry about is getting it stopped <g>

dictator27
12-10-2013, 12:24 PM
Disc wheels are very unusual on Studes of this vintage. They were standard on model EU Dictators with four wheel brakes, wood spoked wheels were only available on cars with two wheel brakes. No wire wheels were offered on EU Dictators. The brakes were completely revised when the GE replaced the EU. The earlier system used pressed steel brake drums with internal expanding front brakes and external contracting rear brakes. The GE had cast iron drums with internal expanding brakes on all four wheels. This change meant that wire spoked, wood spoked and disc wheels were all available.

I agree with Richard that disc wheels are extremely rare. It's impossible to know how many GE Dictators were sold with discs, but I would venture to say the number is in the very low hundreds at best. Disc wheels of that period were heavy and they would have increased the unsprung weight significantly, affecting the cars ride and handling - aside from the weight lifting excercise you got if you had to change a flat tire!

I'm the last person who would question what you state on anything prewar on this forum Richard, but I believe the 50 horsepower figure you mention above is incorrect for a GE. It is correct for my EU and the engine size is right. The GE was the last model to used the 242 ci engine. Both the intake and exhaust manifolds were revised and an improved carburetor was used. There was an increase in the compression ratio from 4.4:1 in the EU engine to about 4.6. Also, the rpms at which the horsepower was recorded went up from 2200 in the EU to 2500 in the GE. All of this resulted in an increase in horsepower to about 65, which was a significant rise percentage wise. Even the 50 hp quoted for the EU is questionable. I've seen it listed as 55 in some publications.

Terry

dictator27
12-10-2013, 12:25 PM
Disc wheels are very unusual on Studes of this vintage. They were standard on model EU Dictators with four wheel brakes, wood spoked wheels were only available on cars with two wheel brakes. No wire wheels were offered on EU Dictators. The brakes were completely revised when the GE replaced the EU. The earlier system used pressed steel brake drums with internal expanding front brakes and external contracting rear brakes. The GE had cast iron drums with internal expanding brakes on all four wheels. This change meant that wire spoked, wood spoked and disc wheels were all available.

I agree with Richard that disc wheels are extremely rare. It's impossible to know how many GE Dictators were sold with discs, but I would venture to say the number is in the very low hundreds at best. Disc wheels of that period were heavy and they would have increased the unsprung weight significantly, affecting the cars ride and handling - aside from the weight lifting excercise you got if you had to change a flat tire!

I'm the last person who would question what you state on anything prewar on this forum Richard, but I believe the 50 horsepower figure you mention above is incorrect for a GE. It is correct for my EU and the engine size is right. The GE was the last model to use the 242 ci engine. Both the intake and exhaust manifolds were revised and an improved carburetor was used. There was an increase in the compression ratio from 4.4:1 in the EU engine to about 4.6. Also, the rpms at which the horsepower was recorded went up from 2200 in the EU to 2500 in the GE. All of this resulted in an increase in horsepower to about 65, which was a significant rise percentage wise. Even the 50 hp quoted for the EU is questionable. I've seen it listed as 55 in some publications.

Terry

dictator27
12-10-2013, 12:35 PM
Sorry about the double post! :( Just trying to correct a grammatical goof in the first one.

Terry

Studebaker Wheel
12-10-2013, 01:19 PM
Disc wheels are very unusual on Studes of this vintage. They were standard on model EU Dictators with four wheel brakes, wood spoked wheels were only available on cars with two wheel brakes. No wire wheels were offered on EU Dictators. The brakes were completely revised when the GE replaced the EU. The earlier system used pressed steel brake drums with internal expanding front brakes and external contracting rear brakes. The GE had cast iron drums with internal expanding brakes on all four wheels. This change meant that wire spoked, wood spoked and disc wheels were all available.

I agree with Richard that disc wheels are extremely rare. It's impossible to know how many GE Dictators were sold with discs, but I would venture to say the number is in the very low hundreds at best. Disc wheels of that period were heavy and they would have increased the unsprung weight significantly, affecting the cars ride and handling - aside from the weight lifting excercise you got if you had to change a flat tire!

I'm the last person who would question what you state on anything prewar on this forum Richard, but I believe the 50 horsepower figure you mention above is incorrect for a GE. It is correct for my EU and the engine size is right. The GE was the last model to used the 242 ci engine. Both the intake and exhaust manifolds were revised and an improved carburetor was used. There was an increase in the compression ratio from 4.4:1 in the EU engine to about 4.6. Also, the rpms at which the horsepower was recorded went up from 2200 in the EU to 2500 in the GE. All of this resulted in an increase in horsepower to about 65, which was a significant rise percentage wise. Even the 50 hp quoted for the EU is questionable. I've seen it listed as 55 in some publications.

Terry

Terry; Thanks for the correction. The horsepower was indeed 67.

studefan
12-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Mr. Quinn, what was that 1914/1915 exactly? Was it a factory roadster?

rrtaylor
12-12-2013, 07:16 AM
That is a nice car. I guess 10,500 based on the interest in it.

289stude
12-13-2013, 08:47 PM
Does anybody know if the seat can be moved back further. Thinking about bidding on it but I'm 6'4 I've never been in in of these old coupes. Will I fit???

stephenj
12-13-2013, 10:12 PM
If it's like my 31 Dictator it will be a tight fit for you.

southbend
12-14-2013, 09:01 AM
That is a nice car. I guess 10,500 based on the interest in it.

It might make it. $8100.00 with less than 6 hour to go.

rrtaylor
12-14-2013, 02:57 PM
$9100.00 Sold

289stude
12-14-2013, 02:57 PM
Well I got this one!! Hope I fit in it this is my first pre war car :) !!!

southbend
12-14-2013, 03:12 PM
Well I got this one!! Hope I fit in it this is my first pre war car :) !!!

Congratulations!! I'm so happy this nice car went to a Studebaker lover here on the forum! Please keep us informed, okay? And you'll manage to fit behind the wheel somehow. There's always Crisco or silicone spray, right? And welcome to the prewar crowd. I've only been a member for a couple of months with the '35. A little (well, sometimes a lot) harder to find parts for these old rides but definitely worth the effort!

southbend
12-14-2013, 03:17 PM
C And you'll manage to fit behind the wheel somehow. There's always Crisco or silicone spray, right?

I was referring to your height, not your girth--you mentioned previously that you're 6'4". If nothing else, just keep those knees bent! :)

Corvanti
12-14-2013, 03:37 PM
congrats John on the purchase.:!:

i'm not sure on the one you purchased, but my '40 not only had the "normal" seat adjustment - the seat frame had 3 adjustment locations made from moving the seat frame bolts underneath the car. it's hard to tell from the ebay pics, but it appears there is room to move the frame bolts back - even if you had to make new holes.:)

next on your list is to purchase the manuals: service, parts and chassis that should be available from many of our Studebaker Vendors.

rrtaylor
12-14-2013, 03:38 PM
Well I got this one!! Hope I fit in it this is my first pre war car :) !!!

Congratulations looks like a great car.

Dick Steinkamp
12-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Well I got this one!! Hope I fit in it this is my first pre war car :) !!!

Congrats! I think that was a steal if it is as described and pictured. A similar 29 Ford would be much more than that and half the car.

jclary
12-14-2013, 03:47 PM
Well I got this one!! Hope I fit in it this is my first pre war car :) !!!

Well...once again...I find myself breaking that "thou shalt not covet" commandment. If, it turns out that you can't fit in...keep me in mind...I can trade you something that fits, certainly rides better, and can cruise with today's traffic.:)

southbend
12-14-2013, 03:57 PM
Congrats! I think that was a steal if it is as described and pictured. A similar 29 Ford would be much more than that and half the car.

Agreed. Of course, technically speaking the Studebaker would need a straight 8 with 80 hp in order for the Ford to be "half the car" as the "A" had a 4 banger with 40 hp. :) And '29 Ford coupes are, comparatively speaking, a dime a dozen. 1929 was the highest production year for the 28-31 Model "A" Fords--over 1 million built of all body styles that year, I think. About 4 million Model "A"'s built in total from 28 to 31. My dad had his grandfather's '31 slant windshield Murray body Town Sedan. My introduction to old cars in 1966. Dad sold it in '03 shortly before died in '04. Broke my heart to see it go. I wasn't in a position to own an old car at the time.

WinM1895
12-14-2013, 04:08 PM
My dad had his grandfather's '31 slant windshield :confused: Murray body Town Sedan.I'm not
I'm not aware that Model A fordor sedans came with slanted windshields. 1930/31 Model A fordors were available with either Briggs or Murray bodies.

The difference was in the upper door frames, one had arched frames, t'other had straight frames, I don't recall which is which.

289stude
12-14-2013, 04:16 PM
Any body know how many of these 28 business coupes where made?

southbend
12-14-2013, 04:30 PM
AFAIK, no Model A fordor sedan came with slanted windshield. 1930/31 Model A fordors were available with either Briggs or Murray bodies.

The difference was in the upper door frames, one had arched frames, t'other had straight frames, I don't recall which is which.

In 1931 Ford offered the "Fordor" sedan which had the straight windshield post and visor, and the "Town Sedan" which had the slanted windshiled (albeit a very slight slant) with no visor.

http://www.spearsclassiccars.com/fordor.html

http://www.modelaford.org/technical/bodystyles30-31closed.asp

I believe the Murray bodies had the arched windows while the Briggs bodies had the straight. I think Dad's had the arched tops. I definitely know that his was a Murray bodied Town Sedan. I've got some old photos around here but have no idea where they might be. Gotta dig 'em out now.

southbend
12-14-2013, 04:45 PM
Any body know how many of these 28 business coupes where made?

That's right, this is a '28 and not a '29. I keep forgetting that this determination was made in an earlier post. To the best of my knowledge, Studebaker did not keep production figures on individual body styles at this time. Only on the total of cars for the year per trimline (e.g. GE, Dictator, President, etc) . At least that's what all of my reference books indicate. According to Langworth's 1990 "Buyer's Guide" the '28 GE (I believe that's what we determined this car was) had serial numbers 1410001-1437600, which means that 27,599 '28 GE's of all body types were built. Still a far cry from Model "A" production numbers.

studefan
12-14-2013, 05:35 PM
John, did you notice the padded material on the outside around the quarter windows? Not sure if that is factory not but I like how it looks.

289stude
12-14-2013, 05:53 PM
Yes I think the ad refers to vinyl roof of some sort. I would imagine its factory.

WinM1895
12-14-2013, 06:10 PM
That's right, this is a '28 and not a '29. I keep forgetting that this determination was made in an earlier post. To the best of my knowledge, Studebaker did not keep production figures on individual body styles at this time. Only on the total of cars for the year per trimline (e.g. GE, Dictator, President, etc) . At least that's what all of my reference books indicate.

According to Langworth's 1990 "Buyer's Guide" the '28 GE (I believe that's what we determined this car was) had serial numbers 1410001-1437600, which means that 27,599 '28 GE's of all body types were built. Still a far cry from Model "A" production numbers.
48,339 1928 GE's of all body styles (10) were assembled from December 1927 thru October 1928. This figure also includes 1929 (Third Series) Model GE Dictators.

Info source: The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942 / krause.com / ISBN: 0-87341-428-4.

btw: 1928 calendar year production of the 1928 Model A Sports Coupe (padded roof): 79,099.

289stude
12-14-2013, 08:05 PM
I can't even believe I don't know the answer to this question but I've never had a car that had cowl lights, what are they for???

dictator27
12-14-2013, 08:06 PM
Does anybody know if the seat can be moved back further. Thinking about bidding on it but I'm 6'4 I've never been in in of these old coupes. Will I fit???

I am not sure when Studebaker first used adjustable seats, but I think it was later than 1928. The front seat in my 27 Dictator sedan is not adjustable. I am 6'5" tall, 172 pounds and size 12/13 shoe. My knees are right up under the steering wheel. Fortunately, I have not yet, in spite of advancing age, aquired any significant "middle aged spread", otherwise it would be a snug fit behind the wheel. I will be 67 at the end of this month (new years eve baby). :) I have jammed my shoe between the front door pillar and the front of the seat riser more than once. I have owned my car for 47 years as of the first of this month. Currently it is off the road as the wood in the body needs replacing. You get used to working in a cramped space!

Terry

Corvanti
12-14-2013, 08:11 PM
I can't even believe I don't know the answer to this question but I've never had a car that had cowl lights, what are they for???

duh, to light the cowl!!!:lol::rolleyes::whome:

dictator27
12-14-2013, 08:51 PM
The roof is fabric stretched over a wood framework at least as far back as the seam that can be seen above the rear window. The cowl ghts do the same thing as parking lights on modern tin.

Terry

southbend
12-15-2013, 02:55 PM
If you choose to add directional lights for safety reasons, they can be used nowadays for your front turn signals. Lots of Model "A" restorers with dual tail lights have done this to keep from having to add lights to the front and rear bumpers. Kits should be readily available. Of course, you only have one tail light, so this would be of limited utility unless you decided to add the passenger side tail light at some point.

289stude
05-07-2014, 10:47 AM
On my way home with the 28 today! Picked it up yesterday. Good news it runs drives and stops great! Bad news it's not a survivor :( looks like it had a mild restoration at some point. The top is not original and it's had a repaint at some point, who knows what else. Interior all looks to be original though.

rrtaylor
05-07-2014, 02:46 PM
On my way home with the 28 today! Picked it up yesterday. Good news it runs drives and stops great! Bad news it's not a survivor :( looks like it had a mild restoration at some point. The top is not original and it's had a repaint at some point, who knows what else. Interior all looks to be original though.
I was bidding on it also. The seller stated it was all original in his ad. I still think IMO it was a good car for the money. What are your plans for it? Restore or drive it as is? Got any pictures? Wish you the best.