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  • Ignition: Distributor setting

    My 53 has a 51 Champion 170 ci engine. When #1 cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke, the rotor is pointing to the 10:00 position. The truck I'm working on now has a 53 Champion 170 engine....same thing. Yet, when the #1 cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke, the rotor is pointing to the 4:00 position. It's impossible to put the distributor shaft in wrong. Does anyone know if Studebaker changed that around? It just doesn't make sense to me.
    One other thing. When adjusting the timing in the 53, the distributor must be rotated absolutely as far as it can go, with both adjustment bolts loosened before the timing is correct. That doesn't seem right. If I moved the plug wires over one space, it seems the same situation would exist. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
    Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

  • #2
    The 4 o'clock position sounds right to me, however, it really doesn't matter as long as it points to the correct plug wire to fire. If it runs fine don't sweat it. Set it & forget it. (sounds like an infomercial)
    59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
    60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
    61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
    62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
    62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
    62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
    63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
    63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
    64 Zip Van
    66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
    66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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    • #3
      Somebody at some time has had the oil pump off and reinserted it in to the cam gear in a different position. If a person was specific and wanted it in the same position you would have to make note where the rotor was pointing and fiddle it back in to that original position. It dosen't matter where it goes, that position will be where #1 is and then you go from there. If you had two original engines they would probably be in the same position. 153624.

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      • #4
        My problem is that the engine won't start. I've tried setting the plug wires according to the TDC position on the compression stroke of #1 piston but get nothing even though I know I have spark. There are a number of things I'll be working on and if the problems persist, I'll get back.

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        • #5
          Just a suggestion, remove No. 1 spark plug, roll the engine over by hand until compression is felt in No. one hole (Ignition off) Insert a pencil, or a straw, or something similar, resting on the top of the piston, roll the engine until that pisiton is at the top of its stroke. This will establish/verify that you are at TDC No. 1. Check and verify that the distributor arm is pointing at the terminal with the No. 1 wire in it.

          Make or use a test light that will either light up, or go out when the points break, hook it up to the points and rock the distributor back and forth until the light does its thing. The engine will then be timed at TDC, and should at least fire on time. Assuming the points are in good shape, you can then concentrate on other reasons it won't start/run.

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          • #6
            The truck with a 53 Champion 170 engine does not start? Has it run while in your possession?

            Many shop manuals have step-by-step instructions how to intall distributors when the engine has ( or may have been) "moved" .
            The procedure usually starts with setting the crank at firing TDC ( there are 2 TDC positions) then possibly aligning the oil pump drive then installing the distributor.
            There are plenty of ways to get things out of kilter, at point which many POs will change wires and what knows else around to get it to run (or not) and then sell the vehicle with a heart felt "it ran great" but leave out "before my expert buddy or I messed with it."

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            • #7
              Another question. Are the distributors the same model and I mean model not type. e.g. from the same year engine. It does make a difference if someone has used a late model six distributor it will throw it all out of whack as well. I would also agree with altair as being a valid conclusion. More testing and supplied information will help sort it out.

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              • #8
                With # 1 plug out, turn it over with your thumb in the hole feel the compression and comfirm the timing mark. Where the rotor is pointing is #1 firing position, rotate the distributor to correspond with the position of the rotor. Set the cap on and eyeball the position of the rotor relative to the position of the plug wire, that will be #1 firing, take note the direction the rotor is turning and the next plug wire will be #5 then 3,6,2,4. If nothing corrisponds remove the distributor and turn it 180 and try it again, but don't turn the engine. If the engine is not moved the distributor will be correct one way or the other. This in not perfect timing but it will get you going, you can further detail the timing with a timing light.

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                • #9
                  Thanks everyone for the information. I did get the timing set with your method but it still wouldn't start. There was nothing, not even when I primed the motor. I did a compression check and found compression to be only 30 to 35 PSI. That is likely the problem. I put a couple shots of oil in the cylinders and that raised the compression to 55 and 60 PSI so at least part of the problem appears to be in the rings. I'll be checking the valve adjustment tomorrow and if I don't find anything to correct the compression problem, the engine will come out and go to an engine builder.

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                  • #10
                    I feel your frustration but don't rush into gutting your truck yet. With almost any compression at all the engine should fire and run. It might run badly, develop no power, and kill every mosquito for 5 miles around but it will run. Before you dump thousands of dollars into it figure out why it will not run NOW. A compression test should be done on a warm engine anyway.

                    Another trick might be to push start it (or pull with a tow strap). If your electrics are weak the voltage drop of running the starter may be an issue. Plus 6V starters don't exactly spin the engine vigorously. Pump some starter fluid into the intake, turn the ignition on, get the car rolling, and pop the clutch. If all that works you can replace the coil, points, wires, cap, rotor, and starter cables for a fraction of what a rebuild will cost.

                    If you don't ensure your spark and gas are good then you could have a factory new engine and still be sitting there cussing at it. Take your time and you will figure it out. The car is 60 years old. It will wait for you.
                    _______________
                    http://stude.vonadatech.com
                    https://jeepster.vonadatech.com

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                    • #11
                      non starting

                      Originally posted by Pentax645 View Post
                      My problem is that the engine won't start. I've tried setting the plug wires according to the TDC position on the compression stroke of #1 piston but get nothing even though I know I have spark. There are a number of things I'll be working on and if the problems persist, I'll get back.
                      I had a similar non starting problem, ignition, timing, spark, fuel, full charged battery, two different starters and two different distribnutors were all there but still no go. I walked away in frustration for a fiew days then an idea came to mind I tried a jumper cable direct to the starter from the battery and like magic everything came to life. My ground strap was attached at the front motor mount where the generator bracket is also attached. I removed the generator and bracket and motor mount and derusted the assembly and there is where my problem was. It now starts after about two turns every time and I start it every second day. Dave

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                      • #12
                        Thanks again for all the good advice. The local engine rebuilder suggested I adjust the valves before pulling the motor. He felt there was a small chance that incorrect valve adjustment could cause the low compression, especially since I installed new rings and lapped the valves. Since this is a Champion 6 cylinder, today I removed the manifold assembly and then the front side cover. I then removed the front bolt on the rear side cover and then the draft tube bolt. When I pulled that bolt, I heard antifreeze rushing out of the cooling jacket and running down into the crankcase! I've seen this before. It can be result of someone screwing in too long a bolt and it breaks the water jacket wall. In the other such experience I had, I found that the bolt, when installed, sealed the break and kept antifreeze out of the oil. I've got to think long and hard about what I'm going to do. The points, condenser, rotor, dist cap and coil are new. I've got the battery cable going directly to the starter. The battery is in good shape. There is a chance the condenser is actually from a previous engine and may be damaged. I can change it with another I have. I'm going to play around with the draft tube bolt to figure for sure what is broken and how badly and determine if installing the bolt will hold back the coolant. After that, I'll change the points and condenser, adjust the valves, put new oil in the crankcase and see if I can get it to start. That's all I can think of right now.

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                        • #13
                          Well, it only took a couple minutes for me to conclude that the bolt will indeed hold the antifreeze in the cooling jacket and out of the oil. That is important since almost nothing is worse than having antifreeze in the engine oil. I'll put a small amount of Permatex on the bolt thread and insert it.

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                          • #14
                            And yes, I will try the suggested procedures.

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