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  • Frame / Springs: Keep the bat wing or not?

    I am putting a 200-4R behind the 289 in my Conestoga. I will be adding a cross member to support the transmission mount. The cross member (batwing) used to mount the original bell housing not only will not be needed to support the engine & transmission, it likely will be at least a little bit in the way. What have other members done who have swapped in a GM transmission? How were the Avanti IIs with Studebaker design frames and GM drivetrains configured?

    Also if anyone has pictures of crossmembers they have used for similar swaps, I would appreciate seeing them.

    Thanks in advance.
    Pat Dilling
    Olivehurst, CA
    Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


    LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

  • #2
    confused here...the bat wing does not support any part of the drivetrain in a stock stude, but many (including myself) use it to support alternate transmissions...
    do you mean get rid of the original x-member that did support the stock bell housing? junior.
    sigpic
    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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    • #3
      A good portion of that crossmember was to support the "A" pillar. Without it you only have the sheet metal of the floor to support it. Even with it there is a space between the batwing" mount & A pillar that is nothing but floor metal, not the strongest part of the car. Seeing what the Avanti II's had is a good idea.
      59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
      60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
      61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
      62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
      62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
      62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
      63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
      63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
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      • #4
        I thought the batwing was also to support the door A pillars!? On my 53 hardtop, it didn't come with a batwing. I removed both the original transmission support and the carrier bearing support and fabricated my own transmission support out of 2x2 tubing. Take a look in my photo album and you will see it.
        Rob in ND
        \'53 Commander resto-mod (work in process)

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        • #5
          Pat -

          I'm leaving it in my wagon (same car, same trans.).
          Don't know this for a fact, but I've been told by a coupla long time Stude people, that daily driving one of these cars without that crossmember can cause things to sag and in turn, not fit properly any longer.

          I'm actually looking into a way to use a three location (eng./trans.) mount. I did this with my old Anglia drag racer years ago without problem. Tie the engine and front of the trans. to the chassis the way Stude did, then add a very "cushy" (soft) end of trans mount.
          I bought a pair of "bellhousing" (two smallish tabs) mounts to try to accomplish this.

          Even if you don't tie the engine/trans. to the crossmember, I'd leave it in. Don't want to take the chance the people with more experience thAn I have to be prooven correct....and not can't do anything about it...!

          Mike

          P.s. -Junior...look again..!

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          • #6
            okay...un confused now, was looking at the illustration of the c/k frame. sorry 'bout that. I guess the question has been answered, but the way I figure is is no auto maker adds something to a frame if they don't need to. The 53's didn't have the 'bat wing' extentions, and the 54's do, so probably best leave it in if you can. If the new transmission won't clear then maybe you'll have to go to the time and trouble of cutting a section of the cross member out, dropping and boxing it?? cheers, Junior.



            just another thought, if you are talking about part illus. 1501-8 on page 283 of the parts manual, would flipping it over, and maybe rotating it 180 degrees get it out of the way of the trans, and then blocking the ends higher to meet the floor pan work? hard to tell from the illustration, just trying to come up with an easy solution. cheers, junior.
            Last edited by junior; 10-22-2013, 02:01 PM.
            sigpic
            1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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            • #7
              My '53 does not have one either, that's one reason the thought occurred to me to leave it out. There is just a single bolt connecting to the floor sheet metal on each side so while it certainly provides some support it is not a lot of structure. Given the shape of it I don't know if turning it or flipping it would work. If I decide to keep it and clearance is needed, I may notch and box it. Thanks for everyone's input.

              I would still like to see how the Avanti IIs did it if anyone has a picture.
              Pat Dilling
              Olivehurst, CA
              Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


              LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

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              • #8
                I cut the center out of the bat wing. Left the 4 bolts that left it to the frame. Made a knee brace from frame to body bolt pad and bat wing.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pat Dilling View Post
                  I would still like to see how the Avanti IIs did it if anyone has a picture.
                  Pat, here's the underside of my 74. The rear cross member is custom built for the T56 but it's just a couple of inches from the original that spanned the same area. The two holes you see in the frame in front of the X-member is the original position. That one had a tab that the trans bolted on. I can post a shot of that X-member if necessary.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Bob

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                  • #10
                    Like St2de5, I just cut the center (between the frame rails) out. You can box the cut ends for a little more rigidity. That leaves 2 pieces you can just bolt back up. The extra A pillar support is a good thing, so why not use it?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ST2DE5 View Post
                      I cut the center out of the bat wing. Left the 4 bolts that left it to the frame. Made a knee brace from frame to body bolt pad and bat wing.
                      ST2DE5 and Michidan That actually sounds like a good alternative. I will study it as good option that worked for you guys. Just the sort of experience I was hoping to learn about. The section I cut out might even find new life when I construct the trans mount cross member.

                      As for the Avanti, it did not register that they have the X frame. Makes a big difference.

                      Thanks again everyone.
                      Pat Dilling
                      Olivehurst, CA
                      Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


                      LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

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