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2-DOOR HARDTOP VS 2-DOOR SEDAN IN RACING

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  • 2-DOOR HARDTOP VS 2-DOOR SEDAN IN RACING

    The typical theory is that a 2-dr sedan is a lighter car vs a 2-dr hardtop. When involving a Studebaker is this really the case? In looking at building a drag car, wouldn't the hardtop weigh less without the front door and rear window framing? I'm looking at this in terms of a 1964. How much of a difference is there really between a Daytona and a Commander?

    With heaters and other equipment being optional across the board, wouldn't a stripper Daytona weigh the same as a Commander? Wouldn't V8 frames between these two be the same? Is there enough added supports for the hardtop to cause a weight increase over a sedan?

    Is there any trim or other visible items that would cause a significant weight difference? Obviously there are things that can be done to both cars to reduce weight, but I would think these would apply equally across the board. I'm I wrong in thinking this?

    By the way, this is for a project other than the current Daytona, so I'm not changing direction on that. This would be for a dedicated drag car.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Valrico, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1755.45)

    Tom - Bradenton, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
    1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

  • #2
    This all goes back to the Stock Eliminator and Super Stock wars of the 60's and 70's. Yes the sedans are a little lighter and don't flex as much but not enough to make any real difference in a modern all out drag car. Back then those guys were looking for ways to lose OUNCES to gain any edge over the competition. Build what you have, there isn't that much difference and there are plenty of ways to slim it down..

    Analog man in a digital world.

    Comment


    • #3
      This all goes back to the Stock Eliminator and Super Stock wars of the 60's and 70's. Yes the sedans are a little lighter and don't flex as much but not enough to make any real difference in a modern all out drag car. Back then those guys were looking for ways to lose OUNCES to gain any edge over the competition. Build what you have, there isn't that much difference and there are plenty of ways to slim it down..

      Analog man in a digital world.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Super Studebaker book lists the shipping weight of the 64 Challenger 2 door sedan at 2910 pounds, 64 Daytona HT at 3060 pounds. That's 150 pound difference, not a insignificant difference.

        JDP/Maryland
        64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
        64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
        63 Lark 2 door
        58 Scotsman
        52 & 53 Starliner
        51 Commander
        39 Coupe express
        39 Coupe express (rod)

        JDP Maryland

        Comment


        • #5
          The Super Studebaker book lists the shipping weight of the 64 Challenger 2 door sedan at 2910 pounds, 64 Daytona HT at 3060 pounds. That's 150 pound difference, not a insignificant difference.

          JDP/Maryland
          64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
          64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
          63 Lark 2 door
          58 Scotsman
          52 & 53 Starliner
          51 Commander
          39 Coupe express
          39 Coupe express (rod)

          JDP Maryland

          Comment


          • #6
            I know that the Challenger has some differences compared to a Daytona (rubber mat vs carpet, single headlamps vs dual, a single sunvisor and arm rest) but what else is their. I would think that the base Challenger might have had a 6 cylinder as a portion of that weight? I know that a Daytona has a lot more trim, such as the belt mouldings, body side mouldings, etc.

            I agree that 150 pounds is a considerable amount. I'm trying to find out where this difference is at. It seems that a Daytona is something easier to find compared to a V8 Challenger or Commander.

            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Tom - Valrico, FL

            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1755.45)

            Tom - Bradenton, FL

            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
            1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

            Comment


            • #7
              I know that the Challenger has some differences compared to a Daytona (rubber mat vs carpet, single headlamps vs dual, a single sunvisor and arm rest) but what else is their. I would think that the base Challenger might have had a 6 cylinder as a portion of that weight? I know that a Daytona has a lot more trim, such as the belt mouldings, body side mouldings, etc.

              I agree that 150 pounds is a considerable amount. I'm trying to find out where this difference is at. It seems that a Daytona is something easier to find compared to a V8 Challenger or Commander.

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Tom - Valrico, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1755.45)

              Tom - Bradenton, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

              Comment


              • #8
                For 1964 model V8s:
                Challenger 2 Dr 2910 pounds,
                Commander 2 Dr 2945
                Comm. Special 2 Dr 2975,
                Daytona hdtp. 3060.

                Gary L.
                Wappinger, NY

                SDC member since 1968
                Studebaker enthusiast much longer
                Gary L.
                Wappinger, NY

                SDC member since 1968
                Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                Comment


                • #9
                  For 1964 model V8s:
                  Challenger 2 Dr 2910 pounds,
                  Commander 2 Dr 2945
                  Comm. Special 2 Dr 2975,
                  Daytona hdtp. 3060.

                  Gary L.
                  Wappinger, NY

                  SDC member since 1968
                  Studebaker enthusiast much longer
                  Gary L.
                  Wappinger, NY

                  SDC member since 1968
                  Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I gave you all V8 weights.

                    JDP/Maryland
                    64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
                    64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
                    63 Lark 2 door
                    58 Scotsman
                    52 & 53 Starliner
                    51 Commander
                    39 Coupe express
                    39 Coupe express (rod)

                    JDP Maryland

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I gave you all V8 weights.

                      JDP/Maryland
                      64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
                      64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
                      63 Lark 2 door
                      58 Scotsman
                      52 & 53 Starliner
                      51 Commander
                      39 Coupe express
                      39 Coupe express (rod)

                      JDP Maryland

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by Swifster

                        The typical theory is that a 2-dr sedan is a lighter car vs a 2-dr hardtop. When involving a Studebaker is this really the case? In looking at building a drag car, wouldn't the hardtop weigh less without the front door and rear window framing?
                        My guess is that EVERYTHING else being equal (engine, trans, trim, interior, etc) that the HT MIGHT weigh a few pounds less. The extra glass square inches in the HT might weigh close to the window framing in the sedan however.


                        Dick Steinkamp
                        Bellingham, WA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Originally posted by Swifster

                          The typical theory is that a 2-dr sedan is a lighter car vs a 2-dr hardtop. When involving a Studebaker is this really the case? In looking at building a drag car, wouldn't the hardtop weigh less without the front door and rear window framing?
                          My guess is that EVERYTHING else being equal (engine, trans, trim, interior, etc) that the HT MIGHT weigh a few pounds less. The extra glass square inches in the HT might weigh close to the window framing in the sedan however.


                          Dick Steinkamp
                          Bellingham, WA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by JDP

                            The Super Studebaker book lists the shipping weight of the 64 Challenger 2 door sedan at 2910 pounds, 64 Daytona HT at 3060 pounds. That's 150 pound difference, not a insignificant difference.
                            Compare two otherwise identical cars with identical trim and options not a base model against a deluxe model, one a Hdtp., one a sedan and there won't be 150 Lbs. difference, I doubt there is 50 Lbs. difference and 50 Lbs. is about 5 hundredths of a second give or take a little. Did the Daytona have plusher seats, in other words thicker padding, carpeting with sound deadener, sound deadener in other areas the Challenger didn't? A few pounds of carpet, seat padding, sound deadener, radio, speakers, antenna, side moldings, PS, PB, those extra headlights.... individually they don't weigh that much but it all adds up. If you're at all serious you can make either car as light as you want it and still make it "look" stock if that's your goal.

                            Analog man in a digital world.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by JDP

                              The Super Studebaker book lists the shipping weight of the 64 Challenger 2 door sedan at 2910 pounds, 64 Daytona HT at 3060 pounds. That's 150 pound difference, not a insignificant difference.
                              Compare two otherwise identical cars with identical trim and options not a base model against a deluxe model, one a Hdtp., one a sedan and there won't be 150 Lbs. difference, I doubt there is 50 Lbs. difference and 50 Lbs. is about 5 hundredths of a second give or take a little. Did the Daytona have plusher seats, in other words thicker padding, carpeting with sound deadener, sound deadener in other areas the Challenger didn't? A few pounds of carpet, seat padding, sound deadener, radio, speakers, antenna, side moldings, PS, PB, those extra headlights.... individually they don't weigh that much but it all adds up. If you're at all serious you can make either car as light as you want it and still make it "look" stock if that's your goal.

                              Analog man in a digital world.

                              Comment

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