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Skybolt
08-05-2013, 10:01 PM
I've always wanted a Studebaker 4x4 but there does not seem to be many around and when one comes up I'm not in a position to buy one. What I would like to know is if there are some numbers around of how many were built and in what configuration? Any information would be helpful.

Also is it possible to reproduce one with parts from other trucks that used NAPCO systems? What are the differences from the two wheel drive and 4xx4 Studebakers. Thanks, Len.

62champ
08-05-2013, 10:07 PM
You just missed out on this '59 from Wyoming:

http://img.ksl.com/mx/mplace-classifieds.ksl.com/1988878-1375637511-679848.jpg?filter=ksl/gallery1

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=26292374&cat=656&lpid=3&search=&ad_cid=12

studelark is keeping a 4X4 registry, and I would guess you have more toes and fingers than trucks listed (but just a guess) There are people who are far more knowledgeable than I as far a differences go...

289stude
08-05-2013, 11:34 PM
I have a 62 one ton with an aftermarket dump bed on it. I tried to buy the one posted above big was a bit late. A forum member bought it though. What a great find. My signature list is incorrect I traded the 58 half ton 4X4 for the 62.

62champ
08-06-2013, 06:53 AM
I tried to buy the one posted above big was a bit late. A forum member bought it though. What a great find.

Some none Studebaker people would balk at paying $4000 for that 4X4, but those of us in the fold know that even though it needed work it was worth that amount of money. I mean even the tail gate looked pretty nice...

http://img.ksl.com/mx/mplace-classifieds.ksl.com/1988878-1375638061-14763.jpg?filter=ksl/gallery1

Skybolt
08-06-2013, 07:16 AM
So, that one, listed on the forth of this month, two days ago, has already been sold? :(

62champ
08-06-2013, 07:25 AM
So, that one, listed on the forth of this month, two days ago, has already been sold? :(

Yep, it was posted yesterday on the Studebaker truck talk page it was already sold...

Skip Lackie
08-06-2013, 08:54 AM
Fred Fox had an article in TW a number of years ago that included an estimate of total Stude 4WD truck production. I don't have my copies handy, so can't check to see which issue. The Stude truck history on the main SDC web site includes exact numbers of 4WD truck production for every year except the 1958 3E models. During that year, the company did not separately account for 4WD truck production, so the only way to do it is to go through all 1958 truck production orders, one at a time.

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/StudebakerTruckHistory.asp

studegary
08-06-2013, 01:01 PM
There were 155 four wheel drive trucks made for the 1959 model year. This includes 139 that were equipped with a pickup bed. All came with a 4-speed transmission. Only eight of these were for export, unlike the Packard four wheel drive pickups that were all for export. Four wheel drive models can be identified (other than looking at them) by a "D" suffix to the model number.

studebakersteve
08-06-2013, 09:45 PM
This looks to be a 3/4 ton,very rare,only 20 were made.I have the the first one built and I have all the production records for all the 4wd trucks.I wish I had the serial # for it.I do know of three other survivors.

Skybolt
08-07-2013, 07:33 AM
One day all things will line up and I will have one for myself. In the mean time does any one know if one can be made to be close to original spec but by putting it together myself. If I was to acquire a NAPCO truck of another make for parts etc...?

53k
08-07-2013, 09:21 AM
I've always wanted a Studebaker 4x4 but there does not seem to be many around and when one comes up I'm not in a position to buy one. What I would like to know is if there are some numbers around of how many were built and in what configuration? Any information would be helpful.

Also is it possible to reproduce one with parts from other trucks that used NAPCO systems? What are the differences from the two wheel drive and 4xx4 Studebakers. Thanks, Len.
I drove this one home in 1981 (Burlington, VT to Fairfax, VA). It is a one-of-a-kind in that it is a 1960 truck built in 1961 for a dealer who wanted the 245 cid six instead of a V-8. V-8s weren't available in '61 so Studebaker built him a '60. Being a frugal Yankee the dealer bought it as a one-ton cab and chassis then built a wooden tool box which he mounted behind the cab. Then he put a used International pickup bed behind that and put a wrecker crane in that. Just to show how fat, dumb and happy I was in those days I drove it 300+ miles, overnight, a little Virginia temporary transit permit in the back window, buying gas at every other rest stop getting a solid eight miles per gallon. This truck had a 5.19 rear end with a four-speed truck tranny. Needless to say I didn't pass too many people enroute. I had no problems at all on the road. Well, there was one. I knew nothing about wreckers and I didn't know that you had to secure the hook by taking up any slack in the cable. Somewhere along the way the hook and excess cable bounced out of the truck and burned off on the highway leaving me a frayed cable stub by the time I got home.
The truck was geared so low that in low range 4wd I could pop the clutch in high gear at an idle and the truck would just walk away with no bucking or hesitation. It was also a great winter starter. One winter we had a minus 13 degree day. I went down to the barn, got in the truck, pressed the accelerator once and turned the key. It started on the second revolution (hadn't been run for several weeks).
I used it around home hauling firewood, pulling stumps and such for a few years then sold the truck to George Hamlin who restored it and put a Holmes wrecker bed on it. It was written up several years ago in Turning Wheels.

stude1964
08-07-2013, 09:44 AM
There was a restored 4X4 at a junkyard near me-not in the yard but owned by the guy. I hope to get down there soon to get some pics. Some of you may know Peter Grave as a Packard buff but he's had a lot of Studes over the years. His place is in Ottsville.PA. about 40 minutes North of Phila. There also used to be a 1 ton 4X4 wrecker used at a junkyard near Stroudsburg,PA. off Rt. 447. If I recall the name was Herm Seebaum. Rob in PA.

4E7D-112
08-07-2013, 12:51 PM
This looks to be a 3/4 ton,very rare,only 20 were made.I have the the first one built and I have all the production records for all the 4wd trucks.I wish I had the serial # for it.I do know of three other survivors.


Since it appears to be all original and black, I believe it's the truck out of Alliance, NE; S/N E12D-4045.

studegary
08-07-2013, 02:00 PM
This looks to be a 3/4 ton,very rare,only 20 were made.I have the the first one built and I have all the production records for all the 4wd trucks.I wish I had the serial # for it.I do know of three other survivors.

I was under the impression that there were 32 3/4 ton 1959 four wheel drive trucks made. Now if you narrow that down to domestic V-8, you get 20.

mtnmanbf
08-07-2013, 02:56 PM
Hey Guys!
4 x 4 S 1959 3/4 tons

32 total 9 6Cyls only 5 came w/ truck bed! 23 V-8 S 18 Came W/ Beds Bill Fowler

studelark
08-07-2013, 05:00 PM
I've always wanted a Studebaker 4x4 but there does not seem to be many around and when one comes up I'm not in a position to buy one. What I would like to know is if there are some numbers around of how many were built and in what configuration? Any information would be helpful.

Also is it possible to reproduce one with parts from other trucks that used NAPCO systems? What are the differences from the two wheel drive and 4xx4 Studebakers. Thanks, Len.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Len: You've asked some questions that other Studebaker lovers have asked. Let's see if I can add more to the confusion.
I'll tackle your questions with four answers as you asked them. No guarantees, just trying to help. My comments are restricted to post WWII and non-military 4X4s. OK!

Question 1-Numbers built. Studebaker built 4X4 trucks based on standard models from 1958 through 1963 at the factory. From the information I have there were a total of 356 4X4 trucks during that span, all built on Series E trucks. Breakout-
1958- Series 3E- 147
1959- Series 4E- 155
1960- Series 5E- 6
1961- Series 6E- 11
1962- Series 7E- 33
1963- Series 8E- 4
Total- 356

Question 2- Configurations
During this span, NAPCO systems were installed in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton rated chassis. This was especially true in 3E and 4E models. From 1960 through 1963 (5E, 6E, 7E and 8E models) only 1 ton chassis were used. There were a variety of models including 1/2 ton short and long wheelbase trucks, mostly pickups, 3/4 and 1 ton long wheelbase pickups, chassis/cab, flatbeds, single and dual rears. There were 6 cylinder (only in 3E and 4E series) and V8 models in each year of production. Everyone of them were equipped with a 4 speed manual transmission. There were several exceptions in model lineups, but the above are generally true. One quirk is a 1961 3/4 ton built on special order with a 245 ci six cylinder engine, a model year after that engine was terminated in the truck line). See Post 11 above.

Question 3- I'm not mechanically inclined as many on this site, but the same NAPCO systems were used on Ford, Chevrolet, GMC and some Dodges during the same time period. I would think that any of the systems, IF YOU COULD FIND ONE, could be used to convert a regular 4X2 into a 4X4 Studebaker (with a good mechanical working knowledge and lots of $$$). If I'm wrong in making this statement, I would expect to be challenged by those who know.

Question 4- Differences in 4X2 and 4X4 systems. The NAPCO system and related mechanics (stronger suspension, wheels, shocks, spindles, etc.). In my opinion it would be difficult to convert a standard 4X2 into a 4X4 with only the NAPCO system. Again, if I'm wrong, someone will set me straight.

I have been keeping the STUDEBAKER 4X4 TRUCK REGISTER since 2005. Of the 356 Studebaker 4X4 trucks built, I have exactly 100 of them accounted for. Some are parts trucks, some are projects, some are fairly nice originals, and a few are accurate restorations. It's amazing that the survival rate on Studebaker 4X4 trucks is better than 30% after 50 years. We can't say that about most other models of Studebaker trucks (or cars for that matter).

Hope this helps, Skybolt!

Frank Drumheller
Locust Grove, VA
60S-W6
M16-52 '48 Studebaker-Boyer fire truck

Skybolt
08-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Thanks for all the information, I will have to keep my eye out for one, as usual.

Mark L
08-07-2013, 07:32 PM
Speaking of 4x4 trucks, here's an ad for one on the Seattle Craigslist:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3972793855.html

The ad says it has the stock transfer case and axles. Has anyone seen this in person to verify the seller's claims or get the tag info?

Mark L

studelark
08-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Speaking of 4x4 trucks, here's an ad for one on the Seattle Craigslist:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3972793855.html Mark L

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Mark; This so-called Studebaker 4X4 is not the real thing. It's an early 2R cab sitting upon an unknown chassis. That front axle is NOT a NAPCO axle. The whole underpinnings appear to be a military 4X4 system or a large IH or similiar large 2 -4 ton truck.

The only thing Studebaker about it is a transplanted cab.

Frank Drumheller
Locust Grove, VA
60S-W6
M16-52 '48 Studebaker-Boyer fire truck

Studebaker Wheel
08-07-2013, 09:19 PM
I had posted these images on a previous thread that was not dedicated specifically to the 4X4. These are all 8 X10 glossies. I have duplicates of some of the originals and can make copies of others. If anyone is interested send me a pm.
2649026491264922649326494

Skybolt
08-08-2013, 12:26 AM
I have saved those about a week ago. As always I downloaded them to my screen saver file so I can remind myself to get one. The photos also inspired me to search and download as much relevant NAPCO information as I could find.

mtnmanbf
08-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Okay Frank I'll Correct you just a small amount that I have found! The reason its hard to convert just any Napco system! You need to match gear ratio to your rear end! Chevy, Ford ETC might not be same as Studebaker exact Gear Ratio's! Also If you want same wheels Studebaker is on its own as far as bolt pattern! Last! Not all Napco's were same Drive shaft on Rt side some left side or vise verca! Just my 2 Cents! Tks Bill Fowler!



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Len: You've asked some questions that other Studebaker lovers have asked. Let's see if I can add more to the confusion.
I'll tackle your questions with four answers as you asked them. No guarantees, just trying to help. My comments are restricted to post WWII and non-military 4X4s. OK!

Question 1-Numbers built. Studebaker built 4X4 trucks based on standard models from 1958 through 1963 at the factory. From the information I have there were a total of 356 4X4 trucks during that span, all built on Series E trucks. Breakout-
1958- Series 3E- 147
1959- Series 4E- 155
1960- Series 5E- 6
1961- Series 6E- 11
1962- Series 7E- 33
1963- Series 8E- 4
Total- 356

Question 2- Configurations
During this span, NAPCO systems were installed in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton rated chassis. This was especially true in 3E and 4E models. From 1960 through 1963 (5E, 6E, 7E and 8E models) only 1 ton chassis were used. There were a variety of models including 1/2 ton short and long wheelbase trucks, mostly pickups, 3/4 and 1 ton long wheelbase pickups, chassis/cab, flatbeds, single and dual rears. There were 6 cylinder (only in 3E and 4E series) and V8 models in each year of production. Everyone of them were equipped with a 4 speed manual transmission. There were several exceptions in model lineups, but the above are generally true. One quirk is a 1961 3/4 ton built on special order with a 245 ci six cylinder engine, a model year after that engine was terminated in the truck line). See Post 11 above.

Question 3- I'm not mechanically inclined as many on this site, but the same NAPCO systems were used on Ford, Chevrolet, GMC and some Dodges during the same time period. I would think that any of the systems, IF YOU COULD FIND ONE, could be used to convert a regular 4X2 into a 4X4 Studebaker (with a good mechanical working knowledge and lots of $$$). If I'm wrong in making this statement, I would expect to be challenged by those who know.

Question 4- Differences in 4X2 and 4X4 systems. The NAPCO system and related mechanics (stronger suspension, wheels, shocks, spindles, etc.). In my opinion it would be difficult to convert a standard 4X2 into a 4X4 with only the NAPCO system. Again, if I'm wrong, someone will set me straight.

I have been keeping the STUDEBAKER 4X4 TRUCK REGISTER since 2005. Of the 356 Studebaker 4X4 trucks built, I have exactly 100 of them accounted for. Some are parts trucks, some are projects, some are fairly nice originals, and a few are accurate restorations. It's amazing that the survival rate on Studebaker 4X4 trucks is better than 30% after 50 years. We can't say that about most other models of Studebaker trucks (or cars for that matter).

Hope this helps, Skybolt!

Frank Drumheller
Locust Grove, VA
60S-W6
M16-52 '48 Studebaker-Boyer fire truck

53k
08-08-2013, 06:33 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Len: You've asked some questions that other Studebaker lovers have asked. Let's see if I can add more to the confusion.
I'll tackle your questions with four answers as you asked them. No guarantees, just trying to help. My comments are restricted to post WWII and non-military 4X4s. OK! ...

...Question 4- Differences in 4X2 and 4X4 systems. The NAPCO system and related mechanics (stronger suspension, wheels, shocks, spindles, etc.). In my opinion it would be difficult to convert a standard 4X2 into a 4X4 with only the NAPCO system. Again, if I'm wrong, someone will set me straight....

About 30 or so years ago a man in upstate NY advertised in Turning Wheels two Studebaker 4x4 trucks for sale. After some correspondence he told me that he had parted out the 1/2-ton truck, but he would sell me every unique piece of it including a clear title and the serial plate if I wanted to build my own. I bought the setup, met him at Hershey and hauled it all home. The "kit" included both axles with hubs/drums/brakes, the transfer case w/shifter, the transmission with shifter, both drive shafts, and the square rear gas tank that was unique to the 4wd trucks. With those parts it would have been a bolt-on to the same model 2wd truck. I had intended to try to convert my '64 Champ with that kit, but the Champ got totaled in a wreck and I decided to sell the stuff to Jim Heiple who had been after me about the stuff for some time. He didn't want the title and plate because he said, as a registered dealer, using those could get him in a lot of trouble. I tried listing the title and plate on eBay, but found out rather rudely that they didn't allow that sort of sale. I ended up giving the title and plate to a man in CA who wasn't worried about using the title and plate.

Skybolt
08-08-2013, 06:58 PM
So, there are not too many parts to find to make one. Good, I guess the floor pan cover for the 4x4 would also be unique too? It could be fabbed up but would not be original looking. I suppose the easy way out without going for the whole modern frame swap would be to use those items you listed but from a 80's 4x4 SUV or truck.

53k
08-09-2013, 07:57 AM
So, there are not too many parts to find to make one. Good, I guess the floor pan cover for the 4x4 would also be unique too? It could be fabbed up but would not be original looking. I suppose the easy way out without going for the whole modern frame swap would be to use those items you listed but from a 80's 4x4 SUV or truck.
I never saw the floor of the parted out 4x4 and I can't really remember how it looked in my '60 one-ton, but I don't think it was any different other than provision for two shift levers. Someone who has a stock 4x4 can probably say if it is different.

StudeDave57
08-09-2013, 11:15 AM
Speaking of 4x4 trucks, here's an ad for one on the Seattle Craigslist:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3972793855.html
The ad says it has the stock transfer case and axles. Has anyone seen this in person to verify the seller's claims or get the tag info? Mark L

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mark; This so-called Studebaker 4X4 is not the real thing. It's an early 2R cab sitting upon an unknown chassis. That front axle is NOT a NAPCO axle. The whole underpinnings appear to be a military 4X4 system or a large IH or similiar large 2 -4 ton truck.
The only thing Studebaker about it is a transplanted cab. Frank
Though the ad is gone, I remember seeing it last week and can verify that this truck is what Frank says it is.
The truck used to belong to a large Studebaker collection in my area.
I believe it was sold last year after a 'real' Studebaker 4x4 was located.
The 'new 4x4 is one of four or something like that..? :drool:

StudeDave57
08-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Here is a new ad for the 4x4 Mark was taking about~

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3988502647.html




StudeDave '57 :cool: