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  • Your Thoughts, Please

    Originally Posted by rusty nut garage

    Hardened valves and hard seats in stock studebakers heads is another urban legend.
    If your (you're) running your stude hard In a truck for instance or expect considerable mileage out of a valve job I'd recommend hard seats. If its a hobby car I don't feel it's necessary.



    I would like to see this discussed further. Not taking sides, I don't know, either way.... 'not saying you're right, not saying you're wrong.

    But... for as long as I've been visiting the old news group, and this forum, I have observed several folks that profess to be all-knowing Stude experts declare that installing hardened valve/seats in Studebaker heads is a waste of money, because, they say, Stude components were already "hardened" from the factory, as opposed to, "soft block" cars.
    Last edited by Studedude; 08-02-2013, 09:06 PM.
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    Dave Lester

  • #2
    Originally posted by Studedude View Post



    I would like to see this discussed further. Not taking sides, I don't know, either way.... 'not saying you're right, not saying you're wrong.

    But... for as long as I've been visiting the old news group, and this forum, I have observed several folks that profess to be all-knowing Stude experts declare that installing hardened valve/seats in Studebaker heads is a waste of money, because, they say, Stude components were already "hardened" from the factory, as opposed to, "soft block" cars.
    Everyone has their own experience and may be different than someone else's. Personally when I was doing valve jobs and inserting R valves, etc. I never recommended to customers to install hardened seats. Over all those years I only had one customer that insisted on hardened seats. I never got any feed back from others that they had a problem.

    The best personal test I have is the '61 car hauler. I adjusted the valves while it was on the engine stand before I installed it in the truck and never adjusted the valves until a few hundred miles later after retorquing the heads. I have checked them, I think a couple of times and they were still fine but haven't had the valve covers off in years and still idles and runs fine.

    The truck has made trips to Michigan, Ohio, Missouri, Illinois, etc. One thing that may have contributed to this though is I put stock valve springs on as I seldom go over 3000 rpm so that could play a part in it.

    On the hardness of the blocks and heads, I have had more than one machine shop comment when having a block bored or heads milled, etc. about noticing how hard they were.

    Just my experience.

    Ted

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    • #3
      On the hardness of the blocks and heads, I have had more than one machine shop comment when having a block bored or heads milled, etc. about noticing how hard they were.

      Just my experience.

      Ted
      If anyone would know, Ted would.
      The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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      • #4
        "Back in the day" before catalytic converters I remember Amoco gas being sold & advertised for being "lead free" and nobody said that it was harmful or did damage to their car. Just the opposite. Spark plugs didn't foul & engines ran cleaner. I had a customer that worked in the Esso lab near Linden, N.J. that said they had run engines with & without lead & the side effect was that the lead did offer some lubricating properties on valves but only under hard or extreme conditions.
        59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
        60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
        61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
        62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
        62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
        62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
        63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
        63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
        64 Zip Van
        66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
        66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Studedude View Post





          I would like to see this discussed further. Not taking sides, I don't know, either way.... 'not saying you're right, not saying you're wrong.

          But... for as long as I've been visiting the old news group, and this forum, I have observed several folks that profess to be all-knowing Stude experts declare that installing hardened valve/seats in Studebaker heads is a waste of money, because, they say, Stude components were already "hardened" from the factory, as opposed to, "soft block" cars.
          The sad truth is, if adjusted when first acquired, about 99 percent of today's Stude owners do not drive their cars far enough to warrant a second valve adjustment, ever. I now have about 16,000 on a rebuilt 289 I placed into service about 16 months ago. I had hardened seats installed, and plan to adjust the valves within the next 1000 miles. My experience has been that hardened seats go about half as far again between valve adjustments, as do the OEMs. I am speaking only of exhaust seats. The intakes would probably go 50,000 miles between adjustments.

          So, to install or not install the hardened ones, depends on a realistic appraisal of your foreseen use of the car, in terms of miles you will likely drive it. How long you plan to keep it is not an issue, since they do not close up while sitting, only while in operation. With Studes, many folks now days measure "mileage" in terms of calender time, i.e. "have not adjusted them in ten years...." But may have only driven the car less than 1000 miles.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
            "Back in the day" before catalytic converters I remember Amoco gas being sold & advertised for being "lead free" and nobody said that it was harmful or did damage to their car. Just the opposite. Spark plugs didn't foul & engines ran cleaner. I had a customer that worked in the Esso lab near Linden, N.J. that said they had run engines with & without lead & the side effect was that the lead did offer some lubricating properties on valves but only under hard or extreme conditions.
            Just a small side step from the main topic tetraethyl lead was introduced in the 1920 for the sole purpose to prevent detonation. As engine speeds and compression ratios started to increase so did the problem of detonation, lead prevented that. As time progressed through to the 70s tetraethyl lead was discontinued because it was contaminating the catalytic converters and rendering them useless. Wheather it was really contaminating the air I don't know. To overcome the detonation problem exhaust gas recirculators were introduced. These devices only operated under moderate loads at higher speeds. Operating an engine at lower speeds as most Stude are, detonation prevention isn't an issue, provided timing is within specs. I have an early "T" ford that was built before the introduction of lead and it has gone through its life with the lead additive and back to non lead and owners continually ask shoud I use a lead additive? Just some additional thoughts Dave

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