Fuel System: Throttle springs

[JimC]

With my recent upgrade to a Carter 4bbl carb, I reused the throttle springs from the old Stromberg 2bbl carb. I'm starting to think they're not cutting it.

What are the proper springs for the Carter? Can I get then locally at a hardware supplier or flaps, or are they a speed shop/Studebaker vendor only item?

[StudeRich]

536596 Clip to forward Intake Manifold Bolt (4 Brl. only item)
537355 Forward spring to above (Lt. Blue) (4 Brl. only item)
1559671 Rear Spring from bellcrank to Valve Cover plug wire clip (Black) -Non-Avanti (valve cover).
You also require the Straight Carb. stretch rod END to replace the bent one for 2 Brl. not listed.
Since the Edelbrock is a Carter AFB clone, '63-'64 Studebaker AFB Parts are the only Correct ones, AND they FIT!

Am I one of a very few Forum Members who has a Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog or S.I. Catalog?

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but there seem to be a lot of you, how can you drive a Orphan Car without this stuff?

[JimC]

I can't afford em. I'm spending too much on parts.

Thanks!

[JoeHall]

With my recent upgrade to a Carter 4bbl carb, I reused the throttle springs from the old Stromberg 2bbl carb. I'm starting to think they're not cutting it.

What are the proper springs for the Carter? Can I get then locally at a hardware supplier or flaps, or are they a speed shop/Studebaker vendor only item?

Not sure what you mean by not cutting it. I like to make sure all linkage is working smoothly, freely and well oiled, from the pedal to the carb. I then just use the spring on the carb shaft. It works just fine, with minimal wear on all components, and is much easier on the ankle on long drives. No need for all that pressure on the pedal, nor to slam the carb butterflies shut like a mouse trap when released. Light throttle has been working for me over many years and many miles. I think, if yours isn't working well, even with extra springs, the bellcrank is adjusted incorrectly, or there is a bind somewhere in the linkage.

[RadioRoy]

I can't afford em. I'm spending too much on parts.

Thanks!

Let me respectfully suggest that one mistake in buying or installing incorrect parts will more than equal the cost of buying the manuals. With the parts manuals you will gain a better understanding of how your car works and eliminate expensive mistakes and time consuming confusion. The parts manuals are essential to doing a good job, IMO, and they are reasonably priced.

[sweetolbob]

Even a real CASO can afford the $24.95 for the CD that contains all three manuals, Chassis/Body/Shop from SI and possibly other suppliers.

Bob

[showbizkid]

With respect to Joe, I have to disagree. Studebaker engineers specified two throttle return springs for several reasons, the perhaps most important of which is redundancy. That's a safety feature! If you have only one spring, there's no backup in place should it break or become disengaged for any reason.

[JoeHall]

With respect to Joe, I have to disagree. Studebaker engineers specified two throttle return springs for several reasons, the perhaps most important of which is redundancy. That's a safety feature! If you have only one spring, there's no backup in place should it break or become disengaged for any reason.

Point taken Clark. But most of the OEM carbs (WW & WCFB) did not have a return spring on the shaft, as do most modern carbs. So, if one installs an Edlebrock or AFB with return spring on the shaft, then installs two more springs on the linkage, there are now three return springs in place. The result is a very heavy gas pedal. I have not ran an OEM carb in decades, and the shaft springs are very dependable. But I see your point about safety.

[showbizkid]

And I see your point about double-redundancy I was not aware that the Eddies had their own return springs. Learn something new every day!

[bezhawk]

There is often the overlooked gas pedal rod pivot block. It wears and can create a bind and sloppiness at the same time!. A bind when you push on it as it works at an angle due to wear, and sloppiness due to the very same wear.

[JimC]

Okay, now that I'm back in town, I can address some of this sill CASO nonsense!

I actually owned a copy of the manuals on CD before I even owned this particular Lark. I certainly could have just popped it in and looked it up, aside from two small facts. The first is that I had lent it to someone who has yet to return it, so I would need to get it from him first. The second is that I was out of town this weekend, camping an hour south of home, and not interested in driving an hour north only to have to track down my buddy and harass him for the disc. Until this message, I was stuck posting from my phone, at the campground, with my hood open and tools out, tinkering. (The wife did say I could do whatever I liked on the trip! ) No worries. Next time, I'll get my manual CD back, and never ever ask a question again so lowly that it is beneath all participants here, I swear. Shame. On. Me.

(Geez, I'm in a sarcastic mood today!)

Now, onto the issues I've been having. So, from the day after I installed this carb, it's been acting funny. Once it was warm and running, it was fine, but it was a real pain in the but to start. It just didn't want to get going. So yesterday I popped off my new air cleaner, and I saw why. The choke linkage was jammed, holding the choke fully open. I de-jammed the choke linkage, set the electric choke about halfway along it's range, until I had a narrow opening at the choke when the engine was cold. From there, it's been nothing but trouble. The car has flooded twice, and is dieseling when I shut it off, something it never did prior to this. The car is also idling way fast, despite the idle adjust screw being almost all the way out. Literally, it wants to go 25-30 in drive. I had to ride the brakes any time I drove it in the campground.

The reason I suspect that the springs may at least help is because the throttle lever doesn't seem to want to return all the way back, even though I've extended the linkage as far as it would go without causing other problems. It just seems like there needs to be more force pulling the throttle back. In fact, if I take my hand and grip the throttle linkage, I can manually move it forward, and the idle drops down, but as soon as it's given gas, it goes back to not returning fully.

Ideas on any of this would be helpful. I haven't had a chance to get to my garage and start poking around yet, so I don't have a lot more details to offer.

(PS - Thanks Bez. I'll look at the joint. I don't think it's causing the problems, as it seemed to be fine before with the 2bbl carb, but you never know!)

[GThawkwind]

I bought a full used set for my car and and a set for the later cars since I plan to steal later parts for my car.
My package got here disheveled, torn, and wrapped in a plastic bag reading how sorry they were for botching my package, containing just one of my four books, the least important one to boot!
USPS lost all my books.......UGH

[jackb]

for some reason the shop manual does not place all carb linkage adjustments in 1 section. You need to go to the tranny section for some of it...anyway: you need to be sure that the throttle bell crank is correctly adjusted by the threaded rod (if you have one). But before that, you need to be sure that the throttle (carb) can close all the way by the idle adjusting screw.
Now you can fiddle with the carb.

[JoeHall]

Okay, now that I'm back in town, I can address some of this sill CASO nonsense!

I actually owned a copy of the manuals on CD before I even owned this particular Lark. I certainly could have just popped it in and looked it up, aside from two small facts. The first is that I had lent it to someone who has yet to return it, so I would need to get it from him first. The second is that I was out of town this weekend, camping an hour south of home, and not interested in driving an hour north only to have to track down my buddy and harass him for the disc. Until this message, I was stuck posting from my phone, at the campground, with my hood open and tools out, tinkering. (The wife did say I could do whatever I liked on the trip! ) No worries. Next time, I'll get my manual CD back, and never ever ask a question again so lowly that it is beneath all participants here, I swear. Shame. On. Me.

(Geez, I'm in a sarcastic mood today!)

Now, onto the issues I've been having. So, from the day after I installed this carb, it's been acting funny. Once it was warm and running, it was fine, but it was a real pain in the but to start. It just didn't want to get going. So yesterday I popped off my new air cleaner, and I saw why. The choke linkage was jammed, holding the choke fully open. I de-jammed the choke linkage, set the electric choke about halfway along it's range, until I had a narrow opening at the choke when the engine was cold. From there, it's been nothing but trouble. The car has flooded twice, and is dieseling when I shut it off, something it never did prior to this. The car is also idling way fast, despite the idle adjust screw being almost all the way out. Literally, it wants to go 25-30 in drive. I had to ride the brakes any time I drove it in the campground.

The reason I suspect that the springs may at least help is because the throttle lever doesn't seem to want to return all the way back, even though I've extended the linkage as far as it would go without causing other problems. It just seems like there needs to be more force pulling the throttle back. In fact, if I take my hand and grip the throttle linkage, I can manually move it forward, and the idle drops down, but as soon as it's given gas, it goes back to not returning fully.

Ideas on any of this would be helpful. I haven't had a chance to get to my garage and start poking around yet, so I don't have a lot more details to offer.

(PS - Thanks Bez. I'll look at the joint. I don't think it's causing the problems, as it seemed to be fine before with the 2bbl carb, but you never know!)

Many times with the OEM carbs, the linkage plate that attaches to the butterfly shaft will become lose on that shaft. It is supposed to be staked to the shaft, with NO sloppiness. When it becomes loose, the play often results in a high idle, unless you blip the throttle. When that is the case, sometimes you can back the idle screw off a little extra to compensate, but then sometimes it will idle too slow and die, so that is not a good fix. A stronger spring will also sometimes compensate, by pulling the entire linkage tighter, from end to end. But that is not good fix either, since it causes all the linkage components to operate under more load and wear excessively, including the driver's right leg.

The linkage is kinda flimsy also, i.e. the pivot block Brad mentioned, and excess pressure takes its toll on those components.

[bezhawk]

Take a closer look at the air cleaner base, and make sure when it's installed, it does not prevent free movement of the choke linkage. Often aftermarket air filters have this problem. What you describe may be the fast idle cam of the choke linkage sticking.