Upgrades and Hot Rodding Back in the Day

[Swifster]

I know this goes back quite a few years and involves parts that may not be available in it's original form. But 50 years ago, what was done for carburators? My car had a 2-barrel carb. I'm going to switch to a carb from 1968 or older. What was used other than AFB's? Or were AFB's all that were available. I'm not going to be using an Edelbrock carb. It will definitely be a Carter or...

There has to be a few old hot rodders on here that remembers the early to mid 60's. I'll be looking for something around 625CFM.

[Dick Steinkamp]

The Holley was the factory and aftermarket choice in the mid 60's to go fast. Here's their 4160...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-1850c/overview/

I ran this carb on the 365 hp (clone) 327 in my 53 hardtop. Great throttle response. It looks identical to the original carb on the mid 60's high performance Chevy small blocks.

The quadrajet was introduced in 1966 and is another good choice.

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performan...52437/10002/-1

Small primaries and huge vacuum controlled secondaries. I loved it on the 305 in my 63 Lark.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Both Holley and Carter were the only performance carburetors around. Both in the aftermarket and factory.

What's the distane with the Edelbrock carb ? They work fine, at least they have for me. And finding a 500cfm carb. today without going to Edelbrock will be...well...good luck. Holley comes close, but not cheap, Demon I believe has one, but they are a bit strange looking. And finding a real Carter that doesn't need new throttle shafts and bushings will also be all but impossible..!

Mike

[Swifster]

Mike, I'm doing a period hot rod. I don't want a chrome carb. Edelbrock wasn't selling carbs in 1968...

Dick, I'll admit that I've never seen a Holley on a Studebaker engine. Were these used on 289's? Were 4160's available back then?

The are NOS Carter carbs out there. I would think you could find a NOS Holley too. I also have no problem with having a carb remanufactured. They can take care of worn throttle shafts.

I really don't want to use anything that wasn't available back then. My stereo system includes an FM converter and an 8-track tape player. The only modern item being used will be a Sanden air compressor and even that will be painted to look like an older compressor. No aluminum radiators, no 17" wheels or Flowmaster mufflers. Cragers S/S's and Cherry Bombs.

[Alan]

Use a 500 CFM Holley 2 barrel. Back in the 60's I used a Mana-fri modified carter 2GC. Then later a 390 CFM Holley 2 BBL. In stock class the Carter had to be used since they didn't like carb adapters. The Holley was smother but not legal for class.

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[shifter4]

What is the engine that you are going to use ?
What is the intended use ?
Inquiring mind wants to know .
Thanks .

[Dick Steinkamp]

Dick, I'll admit that I've never seen a Holley on a Studebaker engine. Were these used on 289's? Were 4160's available back then?

Studebaker never sold a car with a Holley carburetor, but I'm fairly certain they were adapted to any and all V8s back in the day. I doubt if Holley called their 600 CFM carb a 4160 in 1965, but the Holley carbs made today look identical to those in the 60's.

Likewise, Studebaker never sold a car with a Quadrajet, but I'm sure they were used on Studebakers by hot rodders in the late 60's. All Quadrajets are rated at 750CFM, but since the secondaries only open as much as the engine can take, they would work fine on (relatively) small displacement engines like the Stude V8 as long as they were jetted correctly. I'm running a Edelbrock 500 CFM on my 63 259 wagon, but am in the process of switching to a Quadrajet.

[Swifster]

I'm punching out a 289 to 300 cubic inches. I'm putting in a least an R2+ cam, making headers, bumping compression (9.5:1) and making it a street/strip car. It would be nice to get 300HP out of it.

(Using Dick Steinkamp's name is vane) A few years back, I asked Dick about his '54 Commander. He said he built it the way he would have when he was in high school if he had the money. A high school kid would not have a brand new Daytona. It would take roughly 3 or 4 years for the car to be affordable (1968). I'm going with what a high school kid could have done in '68. No blower...

A cam, an (fake) aluminum intake, some head work, the engine painted red, chrome valve covers, a Corvette air cleaner, slapper bars, a dual exhaust, nice wheels and red line tires. And a typical 60's sound system cranking out the Moody Blues or the Beatles. Some paint that's close to the original blue.

I'll probably have a second set of wheels for radial tires.

EDIT: By the way, the reason I ask about AFB's is because I'm used to Chrysler products. I've never worked on a Holley, but that doesn't mean I couldn't. The two GM cars I had used Rochester carbs. But that's why I'm asking. A Holley is an 'outside the box' option.

[SilverHawkDan]

Back in 1966 this car was equipped with one of two engines. A 259 with a Carter 2bbl or a 4bbl AFB. and a 259 .030 over with a Wiend 2X2 manifold and matching numbers Carter 2bbl's off of 259 egnines. The "Hot" 259 and later 289 had mildly ported heads done at home, a Isky modeled after the R3 cam and later a Howards camshaft, Mallory YC dsitributor and custom exhaust. It also had three different 289 engines in it but never got to try them out on the street or track as Dad would have need of them for one of his projects he would drag home. I bought the car when I was 14 and built 5 engines for it by the time I turned 16 and was officially allowed to drive it.

The 289 and the259 both found there way later into the Deceptive Lark which ran on and below the track record at Lions.

All that to say in the 60's most racers were running whatever they could get their hands on and making it fit and work as best it could. Just before I got into Mopars I was toying with the idea of using a Thermoquad as it was a very easy to work with carb and made the stock and super stock Mopars really fly. So I would go with whatever you can get your hands on and then tune it to make it liveable at worst or truely streetable at best and enjoy.
Dan

[Flashback]

Here's a unusual one for ayone to use today, but was used in late 50's and early 60's a lot. Course it's not but 450CFM so it won't fit your bill, unless you use 2. I don't have to ask a old hot rodder, I am one, and this is on my 53 with a 259 now:

[bezhawk]

Edelbrock sells a non polished AFB clone, or better yet the adjustable AVS.....just ask for the MARINE version.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/marine.shtml

[jeds55]

They're around, you just have to look for them. A lot more fun than off the shelf stuff.

[Swifster]

Jed, I thought about those or an older Offenhauser Tri-Power manifold. Three Holley two barrels would look great. The dual quads look good, and I know Chevy and Ford ran them on 283's and 312's respectively. And yes, there is the Studebaker R4. I just have a hard time believing I could run these on pump gas, even with 93 octane. Has anyone seen the tri-power manifold actually run on a street car? I know back in the day on Super Bees and Roadrunners that 6-Pack cars ran just as strong as a Hemi but didn't have to be constantly fiddled with. I also heard that for Studebaker use, the intakes were a little restrictive as the heads were restrictive. True?

Bez, I thought about an AVS. They would 'fit' as they came out in '68. The only car I've had one of these on was my restored '71 Plymouth Sport Fury GT. It was on a 370HP 440. I've had a couple with Thermoquads (I really liked these). I've had a few pre-1968 Chrysler stuff with AFB's. I really don't think there's much of a difference in turning an AFB vs AVS. I think the smallest engine Chrysler put an AVS on was a 340.

As for hot rod stuff in the 60's, I can't see anyone running a single 2-Barrel carb. I can't do it. And the only way I'd run a 2x2bbl intake is if I though I could make an EFI system similar to this...



This is the Bendix Electrojet from 1958. This is in a '58 DeSoto Adventure. Chrysler sold roughly 36 cars with this. AMC and Studebaker were both looking at it and could get the unit to run more than a couple months. Chrysler recalled most of these for replacement with dual fours. Maybe I'll fudge with this type of system after my car is on the road.

I need to get a Hurst shifter before they decide no one uses the shifter used in Studebakers (Pontiacs, etc.).

[Packard8]

Edelbrock sells a non polished AFB clone, or better yet the adjustable AVS.....just ask for the MARINE version.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...c/marine.shtml

I haven't tried it, but I've heard that the Edelbrock marine carbs have sealed shafts and pumps to comply with USCG regs and are good for up to 10 lbs boost without any mods.

[bezhawk]

I haven't tried it, but I've heard that the Edelbrock marine carbs have sealed shafts and pumps to comply with USCG regs and are good for up to 10 lbs boost without any mods.

Exactly, plus the AVS carbs have the adjustable secondary air valve. It is not a fixed wieghted valve like the AFB's.