"I" vs "1"

[Kenstude]

Hi,
Believe it or not, we are having some difficulty convincing the state trooper that the "I" on the VIN plate for our 1964 Daytona Hardtop is actually a "1". We are trying to get a replacement title and the trooper is saying that the VIN number has an incorrect format. I have the build sheet and an old registration that shows the Serial Number with a "1".

Is there any place that documents Studebaker used an "I" instead of a "1"? I could not find anything mentioned in the Shop Manual or the Parts Manuals. Thanks,

Ken

[63 R2 Hawk]

Try going to a different DMV office. When I lived in Cali, I used to get titles for abandoned cars by going to the right DMV and right clerk, asking the right questions and not saying too much.

[jackb]

I believe that the Shop manual or chassis/body parts' books list this very variation in letters/numbers....

[Roscomacaw]

It has been documented (defined, at least) in at least several Turning Wheels issues in the past.

[erniebrown]

I faced the same thing in Alabama, as the bill of sale used a 1 and the registration plate has the I. . .ah but I live in a small town, and explained it to my local DMV and basically they said. . .oh that makes sense. . .Roman Numeral I is a ONE. . we got it right. . .or wrong. . but she is registered. . . with a vintage 1962 Alabama tag. . .

[Roscomacaw]

I believe that the Shop manual or chassis/body parts' books list this very variation in letters/numbers....

Not true. Besides that, if Studebaker had felt the issue needed clarification, how hard would it have been for them to get a numeral one die for the machine that stamped the serial numbers - or got an extra "I" die and ground off the right "ear" at the top, effectively making a number one?

[StudeRich]

Ken, you could try your luck at the Local DMV Office letting the Vin Check Officer check it out, they may do enough cars there to have the right books and or understand your situation.

[jlmccuan]

I's and O's are not used in VIN numbers of any cars. Been that way a long long time. Most DMV's know this and avoid issues by changing them automatically. You need to find another trooper who knows what he's doing. Or better yet, have him find ONE example of a car registered with an I or and O.

[8E45E]

Yep, http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ighlight=roman

Craig

[ddub]

Let us know how this works out in the end. It is interesting trying to tell people how Studebaker did things, they think you're making it up.

[COMMANDERPINK1]

Try going to a different DMV office. When I lived in Cali, I used to get titles for abandoned cars by going to the right DMV and right clerk, asking the right questions and not saying too much.

This wouldnt work in Iowa cause you have only one DMV choice and thats from the county you live in. Wish it would be as easy as you say in Calif. I have had the same issue in the past with my DMV but it has come to pass after getting aquainted with them that I do some of the educating on things Studebaker, while they do still have some old books to verify it wth.
Tom

[BShaw]

As this problem comes up every once in a while, perhaps there could be some "official" document folks could download and take to their DMV as evidence. I'd think that a letter/document from the Studebaker National Museum (over the sig of Archivist Andrew Beckman?) might help the situation. Perhaps Tom Curtis or someone else with strong SNM connections could check out this possibility? I suggest the document be from the SNM versus SDC only because the museum may be perceived as more authoritative on such matters.

[BobPalma]

Ken:

As you know, this is an ongoing problem.

Any chance you could pull up the SDC Forum on your laptop, show them this thread, and let them read it for themselves?

If so, I will make the following statement on your behalf. (You might also show them a copy of Turning Wheels to verify my position on the periodical's staff.)

To Whom it May Concern:

The Studebaker Corporation routinely used the upper-case Letter I to denote the Numeral 1 in vehicle serial and engine numbering. Wherever an I appears in a sequence of Studebaker legal identifying numbers, The Studebaker Corporation was using it to denote the Numeral 1.

(S) Bob Palma,
Technical Editor, 1986 through Present
The Studebaker Drivers Club's
International Monthly Publication,
Turning Wheels

[SN-60]

Well done Bob!

[Swifster]

I's and O's are not used in VIN numbers of any cars. Been that way a long long time. Most DMV's know this and avoid issues by changing them automatically. You need to find another trooper who knows what he's doing. Or better yet, have him find ONE example of a car registered with an I or and O.

You need to be careful with this. Until serial numbers actually became VIN's, 0's and O's were used. In 1960 and 1970, 0's were used for the year code. 0's were also the series code in the early 60's for the Dodge 880. O was the code for the GM Oakland,CA assembly plant. While I haven't seen 0's and O's used since 1970, that may not be the case for foreign cars. VIN's didn't become standardize until 1980.