Brakes: Brakes pulling to the right.

[SuperHawk Jr]

Hello fellow Studebakerians,

My 1964 Commander 259 V8 is continually pulling to the right (passenger side) when I press on the brake. We have been trying to remedy this issue for quite sometime now, here is what we have done...

Replaced the upper and lower bushings on both the passenger and drivers side.
Replaced the shock absorber on both sides.
Found the frame was cracked in the spring pocket area, we re-welded the frame and attached a "fish plate" for extra rigidity.
Bleed all four brakes.

On both driver front and passenger front side brakes we have...
Cleaned the brake shoes and the drums...
Replaced the star wheel adjuster (Note: the front brakes have the self adjusting mechanism on them)
Put new brake shoe return springs on.
Took apart the Brake Cylinder, and cleaned all four pistons (2 on each side) making sure they could slide in and out of the cylinder and not bind or catch on the walls [Part No.663429].
Visually inspected all four of the rubber caps and put them back on [Part No. 663428]

Found the front brake adjustment anchor link was a bit loose on the drivers side, so we tightened that up, eliminating any lost motion. Part No. 1558526
Noticed the front brake adjustment anchor lever had a tab that was broken on the passenger side, so we replaced that. Part No. 1558508

After all of this, we naturally had to re-bleed the front brakes.

Next, after ensuring all parts and pieces were put back together, we put the drums on and adjusted the brakes per the shop manual. By turning the star wheel adjuster until the brakes are seized and then backing off 20 notches.
We put the tires back on and hit the road, making our 5 + stops to hopefully align and adjust the brakes, (again as per the shop manual). But each time we came to a stop the steering wheel would still turn to the right.

What gives? Can anyone give me suggestions on what to try next?

Thank you very much!

Superhawk Jr.

[SN-60]

You need to install new flex hoses to the front wheel cylinders....although they both probably look good, one of them (left side) is closing up inside from age.

[63 R2 Hawk]

Also, switch the two front tires. I had a '56 chevy Nomad once that did the same thing, I went through the brakes, suspension, etc and finally just switched the front tires and the problem wnt away. I could not see anything physically wrong with the tire/wheel on that side so I just bought new tires. Worth a try.....

[63 R2 Hawk]

Make sure it has the corrct, same -size wheel cylinders on all 4 wheels too.

[StudeRich]

Are you sure you checked the top shoe anchor "WEDGES", the curved edge goes FORWARD, also the Arrow points forward.
I would also check the adjuster hardware which is Left/Right only, for proper parts on the proper side and proper assembly per the 1959 to '64 Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog or Shop Manual.

[52 Ragtop]

I agree, swap the tires first, then look at the brake hoses. If you don't know or can't remember when they were changed last, replace ALL 3 of them! Check for date codes on the hoses, if you do not see any dates, the hoses are older than 1977! and need to be replaced. I make up fresh brake hoses, date on my latest hose is 7-2012

Jim

[SuperHawk]

Jim: My son (Superhawk, Jr.) and I replaced the brake hoses with your products a few weeks ago. The car's pulling to the right was happening before we replaced the hoses, and, unfortunately, continues now that your new ones are installed. We also tried swapping the front tires side to side. No change. And I should mention they are fairly new Michelins ....

Any more ideas from anyone???

Larry

[JoeHall]

You could swap the shoes from side to side.

[StudeRich]

Larry I have had this same unusual situation happen to me when I was sure all of the Brake parts were perfect.
I found slop in the upper outer Pin was causing the whole king pin to twist and move to the rear with brake application.

I see that you have replaced the Inner "A" Arm Bushings, but what about the Outers?

[SuperHawk]

Larry I have had this same unusual situation happen to me when I was sure all of the Brake parts were perfect.
I found slop in the upper outer Pin was causing the whole king pin to twist and move to the rear with brake application.

I see that you have replaced the Inner "A" Arm Bushings, but what about the Outers?

Rich:

When we were doing the inner bushings, we took off the control arms, cleaned them up, and checked the outer pin and bushings. No slop. We installed a spreader, and re torqued the bushings to approx. 170 ft. lbs. We made sure that nothing was binding: the king pins and the lower support move freely within their confines of the control arms. Also, we made sure the lower support and upper king pins were centered in the control arms. I don't think there is any slop there, but the work we did on these parts was on the workbench. Under the load of actual driving conditions, perhaps things may be different, but we did what we could ....

Larry

[StudeRich]

Ok, did you have it alligned yet?
You through up my Red Flag when you said we centered the king pin in the upper Pin.
To get anywhere near -1 1/2 degrees Negative Caster to make it track straight, steer easy and not wander. If I remember correctly, you will need to go all the way back and be within 1/2 to 3/4 Degree Left to Right.

That may be the correct way to set it up for reassembly, but not for driving.

[SuperHawk]

Ok, did you have it alligned yet?
You through up my Red Flag when you said we centered the king pin in the upper Pin.
To get anywhere near -1 1/2 degrees Negative Caster to make it track straight, steer easy and not wander. If I remember correctly, you will need to go all the way back and be within 1/2 to 3/4 Degree Left to Right.

That may be the correct way to set it up for reassembly, but not for driving.

So, Rich, are you saying that the upper king pin should be mounted in the control arm not centered, but, rather with the pin spaced more to the rear of center in the upper control arm??

I'm just thinking out loud here, but wouldn't that necessitate the lower support to be installed more towards the rear than centered also to allow the lower part of the king pin to slip easily into the hole of the lower support upon reassembly? I know from experience that sometimes I have to pull or push on the lower part of the king pin when reassembling the car in order to get the pin into the hole of the lower support.

Larry

[Studebakercenteroforegon]

Larry - PM sent.

[RadioRoy]

Larry,
This may be a weird question, but can you tell if the front is pulling to the right, or if the left rear is trying to come around instead? I have a similar problem on a 56 Commander wagon, only under hard braking, but it feels more like the left rear is trying to swing out and swap ends with the front.

Rich,
If the front end is tight, how would incorrect caster cause pulling to one side upon braking?


I'm eager to hear the solution to this problem when it finally occurrs.

[SuperHawk]

Roy: the steering wheel turns itself to the right with some amount of "force," thus I feel it is the fronts pulling to the right, not a problem with the rears.