South Bend Avanti Body Production

[bonehead007]

In the process of reading Studebakers Last Dance. Goes into the problems of Molded Fiberglass producing the bodies and how Studebaker started doing it in South Bend in December 1962. My question is there any recognizable difference in an MFG/Ohio built body or one built in South Bend and what Avanti Serial number was the first using a South Bend built body?

[jimmijim8]

Ashtabula Ohio.

[jlmccuan]

There has been discussion of this before but nothing concrete arose as a method of determining a given body's origin. It would be interesting to find something. I wonder how Studebaker knew if problems with a body came from them or MFG? I seem to recall Studebaker and MFG bodies were run through together and that MFG supplied Newman-Altman with bodies that were left over in-process for Studebaker, so it wasn't a clearcut line of MFG changing over to Studebaker built bodies.

[Gunslinger]

Studebaker body numbers started at R-Q-5001 according to the parts manual but no beginning date is given. As far as pure numbers go, that's pretty far along in the production run, but those numbers could have run concurrently with MFG body numbers, not sequentially. It does seem logical if one has a car with a body number above 5001 it's probably a Studebaker produced body. If there's any other way of telling the difference without the body number is open to suggestion. Maybe Studebaker produced bodies were better finished since MFG had so many quality control issues early on but that's conjecture.

Supposedly one reason Robert Morrison of MFG was so willing to work with Nate Altman in supplying Avanti bodies was that they had something like 150 bodies left sitting after Studebaker cancelled the contract and unpaid for. Since there were already bodies available is why the filler piece was made for the upper front fender well. At some point Nate Altman brought body assembly in-house for better quality control. That would make sense since MFG supplied bodies were assembled and painted and Avanti II's could be painted in any color. Shipping body sections rather than complete, finished bodies was probably far less expensive. I would think Avanti Motors may have paid their employees less than MFG did but that's just a guess.

[bonehead007]

My Avanti is R2208 and was produced on 12-17-1962. When I removed the old paint I noticed imperfections in the fiberglass and the paint finish(paint drips under the headlights). Was curious. Thank you for the feedback.

[Mike]

We did discuss this before. According to the Dec. 1963 parts manual, page VI in the introduction, South Bend bodies started with body # R-Q-5001. Ashtabula bodies started with R-Q-101. Either could have been assembled with any of the engine types available in '63 or '64 model years. Bodies from both sources showed up on the assembly line together. I wonder what serial # Avanti got body # 5001.
The minutes of high level management meetings published here give some insight into what happened. MPC, had previously only produced parts for the Corvette; no complete bodies. They were unable to meet Studebaker's requirements for quality or quantity of assembled bodies; stories about Sting Ray production priority aside. Stude started assembling bodies themselves, at the same time using all MPC provided. I gather Stude continued to do this until production ended in Dec. '63, never really getting up to speed themselves.
Mike M.

[G T Joe]

Then according to early Avanti 2 production numbers would the first say 100-150 cars have the "left over bodys be the ones produced by MFG of Ashtabula Ohio ?

[studegary]

Then according to early Avanti 2 production numbers would the first say 100-150 cars have the "left over bodys be the ones produced by MFG of Ashtabula Ohio ?

I don't know the answer to your question, but 150 bodies would take Avanti II production nearly through the first three years.

[jlmccuan]

My Avanti II is RQA-0088 1966. Not only does it have the expected add on fender fillers, but a lot of supposedly Studebaker only items. Another interesting item is that it has the documentation of being sold as new in 1972 by Nate Altman and being refitted at Newman Altman including a color change from black to a deep metallic cherry. Originally built as a tilt wheel delete, Twin Traction delete by the build sheet, Twin Traction was added at that time as well. Go figure

[SN-60]

Yes, they tended to do that!...I owned Avanti II RQA 0298....which was built in '68 or '69.....deal fell through....sat at factory...was finally titled and sold as a 'new' '71!

[jlmccuan]

I should have included the cert of origin was for 1966 and it was titled as a 1966. It had just never been registered. Not sure if it was used as a demo, mule, lost and later found, a Stude refit (Newman Altman did that too but usually sold with original title) or what.

[Mike]

Jim,
If your Avanti II has a "Stude style" body # , is it Ashtabula or South Bend? Did they continue to put the serial # on the frame rail or move it to the door jam?
Re "left over bodies":
There may have been bodies in line for chassis, and bodies set aside as needing more work to make them acceptable, and bodies to be sent back to Ashtabula, when Stude's production line shut down. I think there are five serial #'s that were unused between the last production line Avanti and the five Stude engineering cars that were renumbered for sale to the public in 1964. I wonder if the missing five #'s could have been intended for bodies that needed more work or bodies on the line. Five is a pretty small number for either, I guess.
Mike M.

[Gunslinger]

Avanti Motors discontinued using body numbers at RQB1516 (with RQB1516 being the first without a body number plate), which was a 1970 model car. It's possible RQB1516 might be the first body assembled by Avanti Motors and all previous cars were assembled with leftover bodies from MFG. That's merely conjecture on my part but Ashtabula assembled bodies would have come with body number plates...for accounting purposes under the Studebaker contract if nothing else it seems to me. If Avanti Motors assembled the bodies then numbers must not have been considered necessary.

The numbers that were assigned after the last production Studebaker Avanti were engineering prototypes that were re-serialized and brought up to '64 standards for sale after production was shut down. I've seen different numbers...from five to ten such cars. How much each was brought up to '64 standards might be open to question as well, depending on their individual condition at that point and how they were equipped as well.

[bonehead007]

I appreciate everyone's input. I checked out my Avantis build sheet. The body number is 63RQ-1261 which tells me it's an MFG assembled body. Opens up a few more questions.

The Avanti is a great car. But it's incredible how Studebaker could still fail with a car like this. Granted they did have union problems which may have made the costs more plus a strike didn't help with the introduction but I would still be curious the cost of having MFG building and shipping the bodies compared to Studebakers own employees putting the panels together from the beginning.

It's seems to me after reading this book and a few other Avanti books that Santa left me for Christmas, that no matter what Studebaker did they were destined for failure due to bad management.

[Mike]

There seem to have been five "engineering cars" definately assigned serial numbers after production ceased. These five numbers are in a sequence starting five numbers higher than the last assembly line Avanti. That is to say: the highest serial number of these "engineering cars" is ten numbers higher than the well known last production line car.
The Lemay Museum, which recently restored the first production Avanti, had the last of these engineering cars in storage until a few years ago, when I think they sold it. In a sense, it was the last Stude Avanti, (highest serial # ), and had been donated to the museum along with the first. It would have been nice to keep them together.
Build sheets for two other engineering cars have appeared on the internet. One was printed in an old SI catalog. At least one of these was built to model year '63 specs. and it's mentioned on the build sheet.
I've never seen anything certain about the "missing five serial #'s". I don't think there are build sheets for them. I wonder if they were set aside for something specific, or just skipped to seperate the engineering cars from production cars. I have an article which refers to "at least five, and perhaps as many as ten" engineering cars assigned regular serial #'s and sold to the public. So that's a posibility, too.
Mike M.