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Studedude
12-21-2012, 06:54 PM
As usual, I'm looking for a winter project, but something that would have to move on come spring, after I play with/improve it a little. Projects like this help me keep busy during the winter months, allow me afford to keep my '54, and go to meets, etc.

I came across this car on craigslist, and ignored it for as long as I could.

Like all modifieds (mine included,) it has some touches that others would, "Not have done that way." That aside, it's a nice car, and the seller has put a lot of effort into making it mechanically reliable (DRIVABLE,) which is more important than cosmetics.

I have already worked him down from his asking price, but we are still a couple of grand apart.

Here 'tis:

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/3405931327.html

Tell me what ya think... and, if someone falls in love with it, and is willing to give the guy more than I think I can, that's OK, too. He has been laid off, it's Christmas, and I would rather see someone give him more, and love it as a keeper, rather than have me make a few bucks flipping it.

SN-60
12-21-2012, 07:14 PM
Probably a great driver.....but the way it's been modified (body/paint) I'd say He's 'reaching' at that price.

ST2DE5
12-21-2012, 07:19 PM
Go for it Dave. But where will you put the old Ford tractor┐

Studedude
12-21-2012, 07:58 PM
Go for it Dave. But where will you put the old Ford tractor┐

BuFORD is quite accustomed to being placed outside under a tarp to accommodate "visiting" Studes! <G>

StudeRich
12-21-2012, 08:01 PM
I think it LOOKS fine Dave! :!:
What really makes me wonder though is it says "283 with 350 Turbo Trans.", so why would it have TWO master Hydraulic Cylinders? :confused: ...It USED to be a Hydraulic Clutch? :confused:


If it were mine I would add door handles, Gran Turismo Script and get some kind of Shiny Wheels or Wheel Covers, flat BLACK Wheels...I don't think so. :ohmy: :(

Studedude
12-21-2012, 08:16 PM
I think it LOOKS fine Dave! :!:
What really makes me wonder though is it says "283 with 350 Turbo Trans.", so why would it have TWO master Hydraulic Cylinders? :confused: ...It USED to be a Hydraulic Clutch? :confused:


If it were mine I would add door handles, Gran Turismo Script and get some kind of Shiny Wheels or Wheel Covers, flat BLACK Wheels...I don't think so. :ohmy: :(
Thanks for the input, Rich!

I have to agree, I don't personally care for the shaved door handles, but I'm not sure that, in itself, should be a deal killer, at the right price. A lot of folks seem to really like that touch. (He also changed the door latches to bear claw, which I do approve of.)

Regarding the brakes, I will have to see and drive the car in order to understand the how & why of that. He tells me the car still has drum/non power brakes, completely rebuilt.

I really enjoyed visiting with the owner, and there is no doubt in my mind, what-so-ever, that his is absolutely a person of integrity. It's just a matter of doing right by him, without hurting myself.

I'm really tempted to make a trip to look at and drive the car. My gut tells me it could be a righteous deal, good for both of us... and, hopefully, the next owner. We'll see.

I'm willing to take a certain amount of risk, but there are so many triggers to be tripped, and they can be tripped/misfired in so many ways. Í┐Í !

JRoberts
12-21-2012, 08:19 PM
To be quite honest, Dave, I wouldn't have done it that way. Maybe its the black grill and wheels. I'm with you I think the asking price is about 2k high. Of course the price depends on how well all those body mods have been done.

BobPalma
12-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Interesting, Dave. I would carefully look at the firewall-mounted master cylinder setup to make sure it is properly done with reinforcements and not subject to fatigue from poor engineering.

You wouldn't want to start driving it and have the firewall crack around those master cylinder attaching points and cause trouble. :ohmy: BP

Studedude
12-21-2012, 08:27 PM
To be quite honest, Dave, I wouldn't have done it that way. Maybe its the black grill and wheels. I'm with you I think the asking price is about 2k high. Of course the price depends on how well all those body mods have been done.
The seller mentioned that he still had the original grill. The grill surround has been "frenched?"

MY thoughts are that the body mods have been professionally done, and have held up well. If I am wrong, it has been long enough since they were done, that flaws will be apparent upon inspection.

Original grill, shiny wheels, door handles... what else say ye?

Studedude
12-21-2012, 08:34 PM
Probably a great driver.....but the way it's been modified (body/paint) I'd say He's 'reaching' at that price.
Agreed... the seller and I have negotiated to a point substantially below his asking price, yet are still $2K shy of a sale at this point... subject to change, perhaps, with some movement, either way.

Studedude
12-21-2012, 08:37 PM
Interesting, Dave. I would carefully look at the firewall-mounted master cylinder setup to make sure it is properly done with reinforcements and not subject to fatigue from poor engineering.

You wouldn't want to start driving it and have the firewall crack around those master cylinder attaching points and cause trouble. :ohmy: BP
Agreed!

(Filling required space.)

evilhawk
12-21-2012, 11:07 PM
Well to be honest Im not a fan of the two tone, the 283 or the painted grill. If it were mine, Id dump a 302 into it, paint it solid black and put the stock grill back on.

junior
12-21-2012, 11:07 PM
Well Dave, since you asked, usually tu-tone with white on the bottom doesn`t work for me, but in this case, I really like it, and like the constrast of the engine compartment. As others have suggested, some bling will be required in the wheel dept. What I really think it needs is some bling around the windshield, just doesn`t look right on a formal roofed GT with no stainless. Other than those easily changed things, go for it, as long as it`s solid runner I`m sure you`ll have lots of fun with it. Regards, Junior.

kurtruk
12-21-2012, 11:21 PM
I'm O.K. with tinted windows, but they don't work on this two-tone. Or the black wheels. Don't know what you would plan to do to it, but trying to flip it would be very chancy. But if you're just lookin' for something to do...

Pat Dilling
12-21-2012, 11:25 PM
I do like the two tone, gives it a very classy look IMO. I think the two master cylinders are a different way to achieve a dual master cylinder result. A single pedal actuates both. I have seen others done this way, not sure why though. Aside from a possible wheel change, I think adding AC would add good value if your goal is to profit from it. Good luck!

JRoberts
12-22-2012, 05:41 AM
I'm with Pat when it comes to the two tone paint job. I like the color choice and the dark on top.

bob40
12-22-2012, 06:48 AM
The only opinion that matters is yours.
Trust the gut.

carl
12-22-2012, 07:31 AM
I like it...go drive it now!

52-fan
12-22-2012, 08:05 AM
I would not pick that car for a flipper because of the modifications. A stock looking car allows the potential buyer to imagine how he will make it. Each modification limits the number of people who will like whats been done. If you find the right person it's all good, but one never knows. How long has this owner had it for sale?

Starlight
12-22-2012, 09:06 AM
Well Dave, since you asked, usually tu-tone with white on the bottom doesn`t work for me, but in this case, I really like it, and like the constrast of the engine compartment. As others have suggested, some bling will be required in the wheel dept. What I really think it needs is some bling around the windshield, just doesn`t look right on a formal roofed GT with no stainless. Other than those easily changed things, go for it, as long as it`s solid runner I`m sure you`ll have lots of fun with it. Regards, Junior.

Dave....What junior said.....The windshield bright moulding being painted, somehow, takes away from the looks of the car.....I would put the bright work back on the windshield and some different wheels and ride on .....The rest of it, including the paint scheme and color, I like a lot.......Keep on Studebakering

bezhawk
12-22-2012, 09:38 AM
I like it a lot. In fact, I take it more than 50% of people posting here like it too. That should tell you something, (as crumudgity a bunch we are)!
Truth be told, most Studes being restored now will be modified and non stock. As the old guard dies off their cherished cars will be sold off , scrapped, or turned into modified rods, it's a fact of life.
This one has a head start, and is a good starting point to further mods, or it can be enjoyed just as is.

SN-60
12-22-2012, 09:54 AM
To: bezhawk,------I COMPLETELY disagree with You on this point.........I doubt very much if a finely restored (to stock condition) Studebaker would ever be converted into a 'rod' in this day and age. You're
possibly speaking of Studes that haven't been touched yet and, (depending on model and condition), wouldn't be worth restoring to stock condition?

Roscomacaw
12-22-2012, 10:23 AM
I agree with most here. I like the 2-tone, the choice of colors. I also think the WS stainless needs to shine. It's really rare that simple black rubber gaskets look attractive on cars that have otherwise have had gobs of nifty mods and paint lavished on them. What it usually says to me is: the builder couldn't cope with the stainless and so decided to leave it off. Shaving and other bling removal? I don't like it although it's not a deal-breaker here. I might be tempted to add a '64 type "Hawk" script somewhere. Alloy wheels, mild tinting to the windows and an appropriate grille mesh.

Dick Steinkamp
12-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Here's my 2 cents.

I don't think there is enough "air" there between what it will sell for now, and what it will sell for with a few changes.

As a "keeper" for someone who likes the basics of it (colors, drivetrain, etc), it would be a good value at $7-8k.

As a flipper, if you could get it for $7k and put maybe $1k into it and some labor, you could probably expect $8-9k (conservatively...which is how I think you need to figure if you don't want to go broke doing these).

"Good" flippers are ones that have been sitting a while or from an owner with no mechanical skills that just wants it gone. You need to get running, go through brakes and a few other mechanical fixits, clean it up, and pedal it....stock or modified. Also, abandoned projects. If all the parts are there and the expensive work is done (body and paint especially) it can be fun and rewarding.

I like the colors on this GT. It would be a more appealing car with different wheels and tires, a little more of a hot rod stance, and ultimately with a cream/orange interior. The chrome headlight surrounds do not go with the front end theme. I'd paint them or better yet, use 63-64 surrounds.

In general, I don't think GT's make great looking hot rods (some exceptions of course). Studebaker tried hard to continue to use the '53 body, but the GT's just aren't a real integrated design, plus the formal roof doesn't go with most hot rod themes.

Aggressive project, but there is money (and fun) there if it could be bought right and if a real effort was made to keep money as minimal as possible to finish it. (That Chevy V8 and TH350 I bought for my '63 Daytona had 60,000 miles on them and I paid $300)
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/3469962560.html

This one is not a money maker, but what a potentially sweet car.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/3484282268.html

candbstudebakers
12-22-2012, 11:26 AM
I have yet to see a two tone GT that I like except when a stock color with the vinyl roof but I have always like two tone cars of the 5o's I guess because I grew up with them and they all had them. as for modified with different engine, trans, and some body mods I have no problem since I do own a all black 62 with as little chrome and stainless as I could with out removing the windows, 300 hp 327 SBC, 4 speed, 56 hood and grille, 63-64 head light rings, 53 trunk, 56 GH fins and 56 tail lights, it is a fun car to drive and I know not for every one but that's why the hobby is to each is or hers own,

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/1964%20super%20hawk/IM004523.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/black%2062%20custom/IM004548.jpg

Nox
12-22-2012, 11:59 AM
I would lower it & put fat tires on seriously wide (still black!) rims on, then ad BIG numbers + STP & Champion -stickers (& such) & make it a Nashcar / Stockcar -racer looker of it!
That's the feeling I get of it: a wanna-be-racer-looker...

dnevin
12-22-2012, 12:47 PM
Here's my 2 cents.

This one is not a money maker, but what a potentially sweet car.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/3484282268.html

Ok, I am now officially old. I never thought I'd live to see the day when someone would consider a 72 Impala to be a "potentially sweet car." :D

SN-60
12-22-2012, 12:55 PM
If 'potentially sweet' means dependable, very comfortable, everyday driver....I'd agree with that. At 34K (miles) it should have a lot of life left.

studegary
12-22-2012, 02:23 PM
I believe that the market will be too small for this car to make it a good candidate for resale. There are a few here that like it, but will they pony up the dollars? To make a good eBay candidate, you need to have something that appeals to more.

I think that the dual master cylinders are a way to achieve a split brake system (an old school method).

Studedude
12-23-2012, 09:52 PM
I have really appreciated and enjoyed the responses to this car. I have to admit to being surprised by the ratio of love/hate being so balanced.

I know of no responder better qualified than Dick to offer advice in this department. That said, I prefer to limit my hobby of fixin' and flippin' to Studebakers. I have to be able to love 'em, in case I can't sell 'em. I wouldn't be able to force myself to work on a 4 door Chevy, but I completely understand that more money might be made by fixin' and flippin' one.

I really hoped that someone would appreciate this car enough to step up to the plate and buy it as a keeper.

I'll probably pass on it, simply because I don't think it's quite right for a flipper... mainly because I don't want to kick the seller while he's down.

He's laid off, it's Christmas, and I don't want to take advantage of that situation, or insult him by a low ball offer.... not for the sake of making a few bucks.

Matter of fact, as much as I'd like to, I reckon I won't even go to check it out... I don't want to tease the seller, either. Bet it would be fun to play with, though.

Thanks for the input... the search goes on, I can't help but to keep lookin'. Based on experience, another will come along that works for the seller, me, and the next buyer.

plwindish
12-23-2012, 10:19 PM
As is often said, opinions are like _ _ _ holes, everyone has one. I feel the paint and body work done on the car have stripped it of its GT DNA. Any thing done to change the classic looks of the great GT type car take it away from its original heritage. IMHO, if one is going to two tone(actually 3 tone with the blacked out grill and wheels), do a more subtle 2 tone like roof and bottom of car. The shaved door handles aren't that bad, but I think the chrome is needed on the base of the roof as well as the Gran Turismo script on the door. The older Hawk grille also does nothing for the looks around the hood for me. Some classic lines should not be messed with. I find the paint scheme distracting, that's just my two cents, which is a long way from from the asking price.

Guido
12-24-2012, 08:28 AM
Don't do it, you know the reasons why. However, I can see this one calling your name, lots of potential here and close by too. Not a Stude, but an orphan.

http://images.craigslist.org/3F43M53Lb5I55H35Jecbsfe3d661d2c11135f.jpg

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/3441206721.html

Price looks high for one sinking in the dirt, but give it a go!

Studedude
12-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Price looks high for one sinking in the dirt, but give it a go!
That is interesting, indeed.

snowy_buffalo
12-28-2012, 11:45 AM
Dave, If you're wanting a project for the winter maybe this one just north of you would fit the bill. It's listed on OKC Craigslist as well as Wichita CL and the Stude Swap page.

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/3502414680.html

Studedude
12-28-2012, 06:07 PM
Dave, If you're wanting a project for the winter maybe this one just north of you would fit the bill. It's listed on OKC Craigslist as well as Wichita CL and the Stude Swap page.

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/3502414680.html
Thanks for the heads up, Allen... I'll look into it.

Roscomacaw
12-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Man, I wish I could afford that Willys! That thing's sweet!

candbstudebakers
12-29-2012, 10:23 AM
Ya and it is two tone also.

Roscomacaw
12-29-2012, 10:47 AM
That Willys was built in the town of my birth - built by the firm my mom worked for before I was born. I owned a wagon one of these years and years ago - it had been set up for an SBC, but never finished. I think I traded it for some work on a Studebaker.

Oh gosh! I'm committing search engine sin! Going on about a Willys in a thread about a Studebaker. I sure hope some future researcher doesn't mutter my name in concert with some four-letter defamations once I'm just a Google entity!

Corvanti
12-29-2012, 04:08 PM
Ok, one more about the Willys. ;) if it "checked out" (like move without the frame buckling) and i had the means, it'd be on its way here!

but there's no way i could flip it! love those and most other "panels" from that era.

Studedude
12-29-2012, 07:48 PM
I have admired this Willys for the last couple of years, would love to do something like this:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r113/DavesPlace_photos/Classic%20Chevy%20Car%20Show%202012/willy.jpg

But, such treatment would not be practical for a winter project/flipper.

I have owned Willys in my past, so am enamored by them.

Actually, there is a woeful wagon of this vintage currently parked on my brother in law's property. It is for sale, but the seller is, to my thinking, way out of line on price, so I just play with it in my mind. <G> If someone was seriously considering such a vehicle, I guess I could take pics. But, please, don't waste my time if you are not serious.

JRoberts
12-29-2012, 08:11 PM
I know were there are a couple of those Willys wagons around here. One of them could be had. Problem is they are both rusty beyond my ability to cure them. I have often thought one of these would make a good home for a well built Studebaker V-8. I understand back in the day this was not an unusual engine swap. Dave I would drool over the one you have posted here as well. It is a nice ride.

Corvanti
12-29-2012, 08:35 PM
as much as i'd like one, i have my hands full (and empty wallet:o) with the '51...