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jlmccuan
12-17-2012, 06:45 AM
Since 2006 Kelly has been held in jail awaiting his fate. This came up last night.

http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2012/former-mexican-hotel-operator-pleads-guilty-in-first-stage-of-resolving-500-million-scheme-to-defraud-thousands-of-u.s.-investors-in-sales-of-promissory-notes-and-timeshare-leases

Welcome
12-17-2012, 07:02 AM
Since 2006 Kelly has been held in jail awaiting his fate. This came up last night.

http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2012/former-mexican-hotel-operator-pleads-guilty-in-first-stage-of-resolving-500-million-scheme-to-defraud-thousands-of-u.s.-investors-in-sales-of-promissory-notes-and-timeshare-leases

Strange sequences of events; after being jailed for 6 years; his father dies last month; http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67165-Leonard-A-Kelly&highlight=kelly a court now frees Mike. Justice works in strange ways!

candbstudebakers
12-17-2012, 10:35 AM
Being a retired person and on fix income I have nothing but ill feelings for someone like this, hope he rots in jail and dies soon so as not to be a burden on us tax payers, and is a bad name for the Avanti.

Studebaker Wheel
12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
Interesting....no mention of the ill fated Avanti project.

Skip Lackie
12-17-2012, 12:29 PM
Being a retired person and on fix income I have nothing but ill feelings for someone like this, hope he rots in jail and dies soon so as not to be a burden on us tax payers, and is a bad name for the Avanti.

And almost as bad -- he made his millions from Federal subsidies to ethanol distillers!

hausdok
12-17-2012, 01:00 PM
There's absolutely no question - this guy is a scumbag of the first order. I wonder how many trusting Studebaker enthusiasts he hooked into his investmant schemes.

He probably won't see much time in a real prison though. White collar criminals usually end up in minimum security places that are luxurious country clubs compared to the places that violent criminals get warehoused. There used to be a federal prison in Danbury, CT that was considered the place to be sentenced if you were convicted of a federal white collar crime - more like a hotel without the ability to leave when you want. Sort of an enforced no-pay vacation. Personally, I think each white collar criminal should have to share a cell with a violent criminal. Maybe if that were the case there'd be a lot fewer crimes of this sort.

Studebaker Wheel
12-17-2012, 02:04 PM
A sympathetic bunch aren't we. And at Christmas season too.

Welcome
12-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Interesting....no mention of the ill fated Avanti project.

Maybe the "Master" mentioned in that article sold off the "AVANTI" rights to the Chinese? Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants after the Mexico made AVANTIs.:ohmy:

Of course, we can still hold out hope that the likes of Maserati/Lamborghini/Porsche …bought the "AVANTI" rights as well!!!:!!:

Chris Pile
12-17-2012, 02:58 PM
A sympathetic bunch aren't we. And at Christmas season too.

Come on, Dick - a crud is a crud, no matter what time of season.
Kelly is a crud.

plwindish
12-17-2012, 03:17 PM
The additional jail time mentioned for his assorted crimes in the article most likely means that a prison Dr. will be signing his death certificate. He's better enjoy his 4 months of home confinement with the monitor and GPS while the colon cancer is treated. Its likely the last time outside that he will have. Avanti owners and Avanti fans should breathe a sigh of relief that Avanti was not mentioned in his list of crimes.

Welcome
12-17-2012, 03:25 PM
;)I’ll just bet many of his local "FRIENDS" around here will be stopping by to see him now …but then again, what are "FRIENDS" for?!?!:D

Chris_Dresbach
12-17-2012, 05:43 PM
I heard the news last night from some other cars guys. I about fell out of my chair when I heard that he is out of the federal pen at least for a while. I'll bet that he's staying at his parents house in Lakeville.

I also noticed they did not mention Avanti, which is probably a good thing. I won't hold my breath on it, but hopefully someday, somebody, ANYBODY, will keep the Avanti in production.

Gunslinger
12-17-2012, 05:55 PM
I would like to see someone resurrect Avanti as well, but in today's economic climate and the uncertainty of our economic future, that looks bleak at best. You never know, though...as Avanti has been brought back to life several times against all common sense by others, though only Nate Altman made it a profitable concern. It was easier (by comparison) to do so when he did. Today it would take some mighty large cajones and very deep pockets to do so. It was nearly ten years before the last iteration of the Avanti came about...it can happen again. It doesn't have to make sense...economically or logically. It takes a car guy with a vision.

candbstudebakers
12-17-2012, 08:36 PM
I have an 87 in case anyone is interested.

BobPalma
12-17-2012, 09:19 PM
Well, to keep both the detractors and the civil discourse enthusiasts happy, might we offer:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=for+he's+a+jolly+good+fellow&mid=EDB9789968C3090139DBEDB9789968C3090139DB&view=detail&FORM=VIRE7

HAWK64
12-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Bob, I doubt if Mike Kelly will see another birthday cake!!!

Avantict
12-17-2012, 10:23 PM
Isn't there a parable "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm with Dick Quinn you don't have to like or really understand what he did and why to be sympathetic. Thats between him and God. I'm sure the six years spent in jail have not been a picnic. He is paying with his health, probably little time left on earth, and at least $50,000.000 in restitution which is a hell of alot more than any of these other clowns have paid. The irony which no one seems to understand is that the funding of Avanti probably did more to cause the unraveling of the scheme than any other factor. It was a tremendous cash drain.

I don't condone what he did but I believe Christians don't condemn without hope of salvation. Thats just my two cents.

jlmccuan
12-18-2012, 06:10 AM
I agree, John. And I think it's good they managed to avoid bringing the Avanti into the article.

studegary
12-18-2012, 01:51 PM
I have an 87 in case anyone is interested.

I bought S/N ---006 new and I see S/N ---009 currently on eBay. What S/N do you have? Which body style?

avantibngrant
12-18-2012, 04:54 PM
I bought S/N ---006 new and I see S/N ---009 currently on eBay. What S/N do you have? Which body style?

Mine is 1406. Boy from a Canadian perspective he would even make Conrad Black blush a little. Conrad was a little less obvious about it though.

studegary
12-19-2012, 12:33 PM
Mine is 1406. Boy from a Canadian perspective he would even make Conrad Black blush a little. Conrad was a little less obvious about it though.

I was asking about the S/N of a 1987 Avanti. 1406 wouldn't be a S/N for any Kelly Avanti.

StudeMichael
12-19-2012, 01:00 PM
Thats between him and God.

Not quite John. Tell that to the people who lost their retirement. This guy is total pond scum and an embarrassment to the Avanti name. He stole $428,000,000.00 dollars!!!

"Kelly and his team managed to raise $428 million between 1999 and 2006 from this sly swindle. According to the SEC over $136 million of the proceeds were from individual retirement accounts. Brokers working the fake timeshares earned commissions totaling $72 million before being caught".

Welcome
12-19-2012, 01:14 PM
<<<Tell that to the people who lost their retirement.>>>

My father lost his retirement too ...from the Studebaker Corporation ...that darn Michael Kelly!!!:mad:

StudeMichael
12-19-2012, 01:25 PM
You can't compare Michael Kelly, a con artist/crminal to the Studebaker Corporation.

Welcome
12-19-2012, 01:57 PM
You can't compare Michael Kelly, a con artist/crminal to the Studebaker Corporation.

Oh really?!?!:rolleyes:

Obviously ...you have NOT personally read the Studebaker Corporation Board of Directors Meeting minutes for the 6 month period from August 1963 thru January 1964!!!

Talk about lying/scheming/con-artists!!!:eek: Why do you think those BOARD meeting minutes have NEVER been published??? IF …the statute of limitations has not run out, maybe some of the remaining Studebaker Board (and their insider co-horts) may be joining Michael if/when he actually goes back in the pen. What the Studebaker Corporation Board of Directors (and their insider co-horts) did back then makes Michael Kelly look like a Saint!!! :eek:

1962larksedan
12-20-2012, 08:49 PM
Oh really?!?!:rolleyes:

Obviously ...you have NOT personally read the Studebaker Corporation Board of Directors Meeting minutes for the 6 month period from August 1963 thru January 1964!!!

Talk about lying/scheming/con-artists!!!:eek: Why do you think those BOARD meeting minutes have NEVER been published??? IF …the statute of limitations has not run out, maybe some of the remaining Studebaker Board (and their insider co-horts) may be joining Michael if/when he actually goes back in the pen. What the Studebaker Corporation Board of Directors (and their insider co-horts) did back then makes Michael Kelly look like a Saint!!! :eek:

Three snags come to mind here for justice:

#1: the statute of limitations may be a factor
#2: some of the actions pertaining to Studebaker may have simply been unethical, but not 'illegal', per se back in 1964.
#3: how many of the players involved are still alive let alone in good health, as in they may be in nursing homes.

studegary
12-20-2012, 09:11 PM
My father lost his retirement too ...from the Studebaker Corporation ...that darn Michael Kelly!!!:mad:

I have been under the impression that every Studebaker employee that was vested in the retirement plan received a pension when it was their time. Was your father a short time /not vested employee? If so, he did not lose something that was not yet his. If he died prior to the normal start of his pension, he would also not receive anything.

8E45E
12-20-2012, 09:26 PM
One of the reasons for the enactment of ERISA was the Studebaker shutdown.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=290812

And E.T. Reynolds in his biography stated the pension plan wasn't instuted until 1950, and would have been fully funded by 1980.

Craig

studegary
12-20-2012, 09:38 PM
One of the reasons for the enactment of ERISA was the Studebaker shutdown.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=290812

And E.T. Reynolds in his biography stated the pension plan wasn't instuted until 1950, and would have been fully funded by 1980.

Craig

I am aware of this.
In the recent past, I have had ex-Studebaker employees tell me that they were still receiving a (small) pension check. I do not know the cut off conditions. I know that you had to be fully vested and maybe it was applied in a different manner for hourly/union employees and for salary/non-union employees.

8E45E
12-20-2012, 09:54 PM
I do not know the cut off conditions. I know that you had to be fully vested and maybe it was applied in a different manner for hourly/union employees and for salary/non-union employees.

If you download and read that link, it explains on pages 730/731 who was, and who was not eligible.

Craig

StudeMichael
12-20-2012, 11:38 PM
Michael Kelly is on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Eugene_Kelly

studegary
12-21-2012, 12:55 PM
If you download and read that link, it explains on pages 730/731 who was, and who was not eligible.

Craig

Thats nice, but not something that I will attempt on a dial-up Internet connection.

Deaf Mute
12-21-2012, 04:34 PM
Not being a lawyer..... I have a question... or two
Can the Feds obtain ownership of buildings etc. (The Cancun Avanti Factory building & contents) when they are located in a foreign country?
What has happened to the manufacturing facility down there?

Welcome
12-21-2012, 10:56 PM
I have been under the impression that every Studebaker employee that was vested in the retirement plan received a pension when it was their time. Was your father a short time /not vested employee? If so, he did not lose something that was not yet his. If he died prior to the normal start of his pension, he would also not receive anything.

An excerpt from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Retirement_Income_Security_Act

4,000 workers aged 40–59 who had ten years with Studebaker received lump sum payments valued at roughly 15% of the actuarial value of their pension benefits, and the remaining 2,900 workers received no pensions.]

My Father was lucky enough to fall in the "aged 40-59 program." His total one lump sum payment for 27 ˝ years of service at Studebaker was: $473. (of which he was required to pay Fed. & State Taxes on 50% of that amount). As I recall, he did not even receive the $473. until the 1967-68 timeframe.

Additional FWIW: My Grandfather worked for Studebaker 40 years from 1909 to the day he died in 1949. My Great-Grandfather worked for Studebaker from 1884 to 1886 then went back to the "old country" and lived out his life there.

geojerry
12-21-2012, 11:04 PM
How do we get those Museum Avanti stored in that CANCUN warehouse back to the U.S.A. ?
They are wasting away in that storage facility.

studegary
12-22-2012, 01:17 PM
How do we get those Museum Avanti stored in that CANCUN warehouse back to the U.S.A. ?
They are wasting away in that storage facility.

Several have been brought back to the USA and resold.
I am more interested in the finished/near finished 2007 Avantis that were on the "line".

mike cenit
12-22-2012, 07:27 PM
The deal on the old GM stock the Feds made with the union made the Studebaker Board look like Saints.

studegary
12-23-2012, 12:29 PM
The deal on the old GM stock the Feds made with the union made the Studebaker Board look like Saints.

I don't know about that. My Studebaker stock went to zero.

mike cenit
12-23-2012, 03:37 PM
Also zero, except GM is still making cars, lots of them.

studeclunker
12-24-2012, 05:46 AM
How do we get those Museum Avanti stored in that CANCUN warehouse back to the U.S.A. ?
They are wasting away in that storage facility.


Several have been brought back to the USA and resold.
I am more interested in the finished/near finished 2007 Avantis that were on the "line".

Knowing Mexico and mexican authorities quite well, I would be quite surprised that there's anything of value left in the place at all. Hopefully I and many other people will be delightfully surprised when the time comes to open that place up and see just what is in there.

8E45E
12-24-2012, 07:30 AM
I don't know about that. My Studebaker stock went to zero.

Then you sold it at the wrong time.

Craig

studegary
12-24-2012, 12:51 PM
Then you sold it at the wrong time.

Craig

That is not true. The stock itself became valueless, the same as my Rolls Royce stock when they went bankrupt. Companies may carry on and reissue stock, but the previous stock has no value, except as a collector item.

8E45E
12-26-2012, 08:49 AM
Thats nice, but not something that I will attempt on a dial-up Internet connection.

No problem! Here it is...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8309935755_7a6625f132_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8309945565_01c0337f3c_b.jpg

Craig

studegary
12-26-2012, 01:36 PM
Thanks, Craig.

StudeMichael
12-26-2012, 02:04 PM
That is not true. The stock itself became valueless, the same as my Rolls Royce stock when they went bankrupt. Companies may carry on and reissue stock, but the previous stock has no value, except as a collector item.

Everything I have read states that Studebaker stock went up in value after they stopped the production of automobiles.

8E45E
12-26-2012, 02:19 PM
Everything I have read states that Studebaker stock went up in value after they stopped the production of automobiles.

I'm also curious to know at which point in time Studebaker stock became 'worthless'. The only time I could possibly see when that would have happened would have been over one of the mergers, MLW or McGraw-Edison, but I don't think the SEC would ever allow shares of the 'lesser' company becoming worthless.

Craig

Corvanti
12-26-2012, 03:29 PM
From this thread, I picked up a link which is a fairly complete, accurate, and brief history of the Avanti and the demise of its many iterations. http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-cars-and-muscle-cars/94-studebaker-avanti.html

i"m getting this when i went to open the above site:

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Whoa! Are you sure you want to go there? http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-cars-and-muscle-c... may be risky to visit.
Why were you redirected to this page?


When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors.





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studegary
12-26-2012, 04:10 PM
From this thread, I picked up a link which is a fairly complete, accurate, and brief history of the Avanti and the demise of its many iterations. http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-cars-and-muscle-cars/94-studebaker-avanti.html

I wouldn't refer to it as "accurate. There are some of the usual errors and some new ones.
Examples:
1) calling Lincoln's carriage a Studebaker
2) captioned a 1950 as a "1951"
3) stating that Loewy transferred three from NYC - Loewy hired Kellogg in CA
4) "...$2368, more than $1100 less than the '64 Avanti." - seems like $1000 is lost somewhere
5) "...Firebird...F body's plastic body panels..." - seems like they confused the Firebird with the Fiero
6) The production figures given for 2001-2007 are much higher than I can believe and that I have seen elsewhere.
These are the major items that I noticed with a quick read. There are also missing words in many places.

Studebaker Wheel
12-26-2012, 04:42 PM
Craig; What is the source for this information? Always a good idea to include that.

8E45E
12-26-2012, 04:58 PM
Craig; What is the source for this information? Always a good idea to include that.

Link on Post #28. Are you reading this thread backwards?

Craig

jnfweber
12-27-2012, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't refer to it as "accurate. There are some of the usual errors and some new ones.
Examples:
1) calling Lincoln's carriage a Studebaker
2) captioned a 1950 as a "1951"
3) stating that Loewy transferred three from NYC - Loewy hired Kellogg in CA
4) "...$2368, more than $1100 less than the '64 Avanti." - seems like $1000 is lost somewhere
5) "...Firebird...F body's plastic body panels..." - sems like they confused the Firebird with the Fiero
6) The production figures given for 2001-2007 are much higher than I can believe and that I have seen elsewhere.
These are the major items that I noticed with a quick read. There are also missing words in many places. Okay Gary, let's substitute "enjoyable" for "accurate", and at least there are some nice photos, and a little bit of Studebaker history for those who are not Studebaker nuts. http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-car...er-avanti.html (http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-cars-and-muscle-cars/94-studebaker-avanti.html)