Brakes: Stuck Front Drum - 1946 Champion

[Justin53]

When I bought this car I was warned that the hill-holder sometimes won't release and the car won't roll. That doesn't seem to be the case. I took the MC and the no-rol out and it rattles freely. Instead I think the problem is with the front left wheel. Maybe others are afflicted too but so far I am in enough trouble with that one.

With the adjusters in any position the drum won't move. The wheel only moved about a quarter turn and in one direction only so now all my might can't move it anymore. I opened the bleeder to release pressure and loosened the axle nut several turns to make room but nothing seems to let the drum move freely in any direction. Any ideas? Am I missing a step? Should I try a hub puller like I'd use on the rears?

Another interesting discovery was that all my studs were marked L but one still insisted on the old lefty-loosey rule to undo.

Thanks for any help,
Justin

[unclemiltie]

Sounds like the shoes might be rusted to the drum. I would not used a puller. I had one like this on a car once, I disconnected the line to the wheel cylinder and removed the two bolts holding the wheel cylinder. I then soaked it with wd-40 like spray and shook and worked it and got it off. I also took off the nut and outer wheel bearing to allow me to move it a bit.

another possibility----I think the 46 also has those adjusters that are in the middle of one of the shoes on each wheel. They sometimes made a grove in the drum when they were not installed right. Maybe it is holding the drum in a frozen state.


Good luck

[jclary]

I have encountered frozen front drums myself and agree with much of what Milt suggested. However, I have successfully used a puller to remove front drums. The key is to use the same type puller used for rear drums that attaches to the studs. Under no circumstances do you use the type of puller that tugs on the outer flange of the drums. Also, when using the correct type puller, do not use the type of force you would use on the rear drums. All you want to do is start movement and free the drum from the brake shoes.

One thing that happens is that the corrosion that develops behind the pistons of the wheel cylinder actually grows and expands to where it locks the shoes tight against the drum. In your case, the slight movement you did probably cause the shoes to bind, further locking them in place. As Milt suggested, remove the brake line from the wheel cylinder, remove the cylinder mounting bolts, and give the cylinder a couple of taps inward. That should help release the binding piston rods and allow some clearance to take the pressure off. Once you have some movement, you should be able to remove the drum with some persuasion and patience.

Everyone seems to be worried about breaking the cast iron flange of the drums, and rightly so. However, once you have removed the drum, check very closely the flange area around where the studs come through. I have seen these flanges crack from lateral stress. These cracks can not only be caused by using too much force removing the drums, but also from impact stress in prior accidents, hard cornering, running on the rims with a flat, and plain old metal fatigue. Four bolt hubs seem to be more prone to this type of failure than five bolt hubs. Good luck with it and let us know how you solve it.

[Justin53]

Thank you both for your input. I did get the drum off with a hub puller. I was able to turn the adjusters but they do not move the shoes. I know on my 1940s DeSoto there are washers to space and align the shoes but there are none here. It looks as if the anchor bolt is screwed tight and frozen jamming the shoes tightly together at this point. Getting the drum off was huge progress and despite the wet cold it promises to be a better day for the Champion.
Justin

[2R Truck Seeker]

Another trick with stuck front wheels is to remove the outer wheel bearing and replace the dust-cover, then grab the wheel at 12 & 6 o' clock, and rock it back and forth; the additional "wiggle room" w/o the outer bearing will often allow you to "fidget" the front wheel off.

Make the vehicle is securely supported on jack-stands first !

Good luck with it !



2R Truck Seeker

[Justin53]

Jack Stands? I just prop the fender on my shoulder as I work as I work within.

At the end of the day my biggest problem is how to get the slotted pins that locate the shoes out of the wheel cylinders. It was a good tiring day in the garage. This car may forever stink of mouse waste but I am so happy to have it.
J

[jclary]

If I understand you correctly, those "pins" are probably just corroded and "mucked" with gunk inside your rubber boots on the ends of the cylinder. Chuck the cylinder in your shop vice and yank them out with pliers. If you have a bench grinder with a wire brush, they should clean up nicely.

The next step will be getting the pistons out of the wheel cylinder. I have had some that were so stuck, I have had to resort to using a dead blow hammer and a dowel to knock them out. In fact, the last corroded wheel cylinder I worked on, I used a short piece of pvc pipe instead of the wooden dowel.

Really, if you can locate a vendor with new or rebuilt cylinders, that would be the best way to go.

By the way...do you have a shop manual? If not, that should be your next move. It will be the best money you will ever spend on the car. Even if you decide to let someone work on your car, having the manual can keep you from getting burned by some wanna-be mechanic.

[Justin53]

Good Morning,
The shop manual is on order; I wouldn't own a car without the manual. Yesterday I also ordered new brake hoses and wheel cylinders too. The old cylinders are just too crusty and cruddy to bother with. Once before, however, the replacement cylinders I ordered for another car came with push rods of a different length. that is why I am trying to save the old ones.

I appreciate every bit of input. Thank you.
Justin

[Neal in NM]

They may look bad but usually they are serviceable. The rear cylinders on my M16 were stuck solid so I made an adapter out of a bolt that would thread into the brake line input. I drilled a hole through the center of the bolt then tapped it to accept a zerk fitting. Using a grease gun I was able to force the wheel cylinder apart. It makes a mess but it is very safe. Neal

[Flashback]

Sounds like you are doin' it right. Don't scrimp on the brakes. If it won't start it will only hurt your feelings. If it won't stop, it can hurt a whole lot more than your feelings.

[nvonada]

Wheel cylinders for the 39-46 Champion are getting thin on the ground and brake drums are just about gone. As you just found out both are expensive. I would take those cylinders apart and see how bad the bore is. If there are no bad pits where the pistons actually move you can probably save them. Here is a bad one:

As of a couple years ago NAPA still had the rebuild kits for them. The adjusting hardware is usually salvageable once you get it loosened up. It is good to see that you are putting hoses on as well.
Whatever you do don't throw away the old parts. In not too many years we will be forced to sleeve these wheel cylinders.

[njonkman]

Jack Stands? I just prop the fender on my shoulder as I work as I work within.

At the end of the day my biggest problem is how to get the slotted pins that locate the shoes out of the wheel cylinders. It was a good tiring day in the garage. This car may forever stink of mouse waste but I am so happy to have it.
J

Are you redoing the interior? If not clean as thorough as you can and throw in some drier Bounce sheets and a dish of baking soda. You will be surprised what that can do for it. In future keep some Bounce sheets scattered around in there at all times to help deter them from coming back in.
Nick

[mbstude]

A few bars of plain Irish Spring soap works great for pulling the mouse smell out too.

[Justin53]

Every year winter prep

Each year I slice up and scatter many bars of fresh irish spring soap, toss around plenty of moth balls and leave several dryer sheets in each car. I use all this under the hood and in the trunk too. I never had a mouse problem start with me but I have inherited several. This car is the worse. It has a really nice interior but it stinks. I am working on it, but it is secondary to having the car run and stop and be safe. On some days it is hard to do anything but think up and organize all that the car needs. I am no different than the high school kid who doodled Cutlass Supreme logos in class while my car missed me in the parking lot.

Thank you all,
J