The mind boggles thinking.......what if they did????????

[Hawklover]

Back when the Avanti was under development a fellow over in Modina, Italy showed more than passing interest in the radical new design. That fellow was a man named Enzo Ferrari........so taken with the Loewy design (actually the Kellogg, Epstein, Andrews design) was Enzo that he, through "emissary's" sent word to South Bend that he would allow Studebaker to build (under license) one of his specific engines for the new Avanti.

Sadly the offer was not acted upon, and like amazing scenes in a motion picture left "on the cutting room floor"........the offer to build a Ferrari engine for the Avanti was left as one of the curios of automotive side bar history.

But what if.................a person with lots of cash........had a team of top flight auto wrench spinners actually fit an Avanti with a six cyl Ferrari engine..........if you have never heard the sound of one of Enzo's engine masterpieces..........you have not lived.

A one off for all time....................the mind boggles at the thought............

[spokejr]

Or a 300SL engine

Funny you should bring up the Ferrari incident. I have always wondered, what if the Mercedes connection has been better used for exchange of technology? In particular, the 300SL engine had similar horsepower to the R1 and would have been slightly lighter. A proven performer, it would have been a good alternate but maybe seen as an econo-option at a time when big horsepower sold big and the perception was only a V8 would acheive this. I have often wondered how the Pontiac OHC 6 would do as well. Sharing door latches with MB proved not to be quite enough...

Ken

[nwi-region-rat]

Or what about all the Mercedes Diesel technology? No more GM stuff under the hood after 64.....Diesel cars and trucks.....

[sweetolbob]

Back when the Avanti was under development a fellow over in Modina, Italy showed more than passing interest in the radical new design. That fellow was a man named Enzo Ferrari........so taken with the Loewy design (actually the Kellogg, Epstein, Andrews design) was Enzo that he, through "emissary's" sent word to South Bend that he would allow Studebaker to build (under license) one of his specific engines for the new Avanti.

Sadly the offer was not acted upon, and like amazing scenes in a motion picture left "on the cutting room floor"........the offer to build a Ferrari engine for the Avanti was left as one of the curios of automotive side bar history.

But what if.................a person with lots of cash........had a team of top flight auto wrench spinners actually fit an Avanti with a six cyl Ferrari engine..........if you have never heard the sound of one of Enzo's engine masterpieces..........you have not lived.

A one off for all time....................the mind boggles at the thought............

I'll bet it would be fun!!!?? to take your Avanti in for a tune-up and service and get a bill that exceeds the cost of the car new!!

Bob

[Hawklover]

LOL...............in 2013 FoMoCo produces a "little" six cyl engine that developes 300 BHP........who needs a V8?????????

[SN-60]

Back when the Avanti was under development a fellow over in Modina, Italy showed more than passing interest in the radical new design. That fellow was a man named Enzo Ferrari........so taken with the Loewy design (actually the Kellogg, Epstein, Andrews design) was Enzo that he, through "emissary's" sent word to South Bend that he would allow Studebaker to build (under license) one of his specific engines for the new Avanti.

Sadly the offer was not acted upon, and like amazing scenes in a motion picture left "on the cutting room floor"........the offer to build a Ferrari engine for the Avanti was left as one of the curios of automotive side bar history.

But what if.................a person with lots of cash........had a team of top flight auto wrench spinners actually fit an Avanti with a six cyl Ferrari engine..........if you have never heard the sound of one of Enzo's engine masterpieces..........you have not lived.

A one off for all time....................the mind boggles at the thought............

Well, if Avantis were built using Ferrari engines, it probably would have made an already too expensive car even more expensive.....Studebaker Avanti production wouldn't have been a few thousand cars, but more likely a few hundred cars!

[Hawklover]

You do not know that, you are just making an assumption!

Well, if Avantis were built using Ferrari engines, it probably would have made an already too expensive car even more expensive.....Studebaker Avanti production wouldn't have been a few thousand cars, but more likely a few hundred cars!

[PackardV8]

Interesting info. When and where can we read more about this proposal?

Which 1963 Ferrari 6-cyl was considered?

The standard production '63 3.3-liter V12 Ferrari only put out 260hp.

FWIW, exotic Italian engines were too expensive even for Italian/European exotic cars of the day. Bizzarrini, Iso-Rivolta, Apollo, Facel-Vega, Bristol, Jensen, TVR, DeTomaso, all used Chevy/Ford/Mopar OHV8 engines.

jack vines

[SN-60]

You do not know that, you are just making an assumption!

No, I KNOW it!!!!!!!!

[Hawklover]

As I said an assumption as to the actual effect the collaboration would have made.

No, I KNOW it!!!!!!!!

[Hawklover]

Jack, I have to really dig through all my stuff.....the 'emissary' from Ferrari was the principal importer of cars into the USA, I know that Luigi Chanetti was involved...... Enzo was a man of few words, but he knew a gorgeous body when he saw one!........and in this case "she" was not Sicilian:-)

Interesting info. When and where can we read more about this proposal?

Which 1963 Ferrari 6-cyl was considered?

The standard production '63 3.3-liter V12 Ferrari only put out 260hp.

FWIW, exotic Italian engines were too expensive even for Italian/European exotic cars of the day. Bizzarrini, Iso-Rivolta, Apollo, Facel-Vega, Bristol, Jensen, TVR, DeTomaso, all used Chevy/Ford/Mopar OHV8 engines.

jack vines

[SN-60]

As I said an assumption as to the actual effect the collaboration would have made.

Maybe Enzo should have thought about using the Avanti R3 in one of His Ferrari models.....The man did like to drive FAST!!!

[bezhawk]

The story is based on fact. It was in Automobile Quarterly about 5 years ago.

[GThawkwind]

Screw ferrari engines, I would rather have seen factory optional R5 engines. If your gonna go expensive and complicated I would wanna do it with a 575 HP dual supercharged stude V8. What if he had got the rights to make avanti twos originally. Ferrari handling and power, with a touch of his design tweaks

[t walgamuth]

Well its an interesting subject. I am a pretty avid automotive fan in general but have never heard this story before. Of course its a fantastic story.

Ferraris were never built in much volume as of 1963. As of that year the GT 250 was the largest volumn car that Ferrari had made up to that time and its total production was 353 cars. Ferraris were still largely hand made at that time including the engines. A new 1959 GT 250 Pininfarina coupe cost $14,000. If Ferrari engines would have been used it would have to have been an option to the standard Studebaker engine.

The 3.3 engine which put out the 260 Hp was a hemi head design built to withstand the rigors of the 24 hour races of which LeMans was just one of several. Up to that time Ferrari had won more LeMans wins than any manufacturer. The engine had aluminum block and heads with enormous main and rod bearings. The rockers had over 1" diameter needle bearing rollers where they touched the cams. There were two distributors with two sets of points each using long ramps on the distributor cams so that the points would not float even if operated at 9000 rpm. The Ferrari engines at that time were thought of as virtually indestructible from normal racing stress. And I would estimate that that 3.3 liter 260 hp engine would have weighed less than 400 pounds. The starter and generator also were aluminum bodied to reduce weight. The Ferrari also used aluminum in its floor pan, the firewall, dash etc. The 59 GT 250 in its entirety weighed around 2600#. The Avanti would have had nearly 300# less weight to carry around with the Ferrari mill so it would have been a good performer.

The v12 is a very compact design too and would go anyplace a straight six would go.

The Studebaker Engine is a noble, high quality engine but its very heavy and all the Studebaker ancillaries such as the bell housing, clutch, flywheel and transmission are extremely heavy. All those items for a study v8 weigh at least double what the same parts weigh for the featherweight Ferrari stuff which is smaller and uses a lot of aluminum in its construction.
If Enzo really made such a statement or if Chinetti did so it is a very nice compliment to the design of the car for sure.