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  • title problems

    hi

    New guy here. I have a what I believe is a 1958 Scotsman 2 door wagon. I have owned for about 3 years. Bought it as project. It is fabricated on to a el camino chassis and has a LS1 for power. very nice car and is ready for the road. Problem is the number on the door post is G140 1398 and the number on my Texas title ( last registered in 1968 ) is G141 2719. There is also a tag on the firewall 57G D1 2209. I have not taken this up with the dmv in Missouri yet. I have had problems with them before on a motorcycle and want to be ready with proper papers in hand. I have read that some sn do not match on studebakers and were engine numbers not body numbers. I do not have the studebaker engine. I would appreciate any help I can get thanks rod

  • #2
    It appears that you have the wrong title. Any chance you can contact the seller to see if he mistakenly gave you the title from another car he owned? There’s nothing Studebaker-unique about the engine number/serial number differences. Many states (eg, California) used engine numbers instead of the vehicle serial number for registration purposes until around 1954. In other words, you have a DMV-title problem, not a Studebaker problem. The firewall tag number just says that the body is for a 57 Scotsman wagon, and is not related to the serial number, which could have been for any Champion/Scotsman car.

    Not strictly legal, but you might want to consider buying a blank reproduction serial number plate and stamping it with the number on your title. Another possibility is to call Broadway Title in Alabama and see if they can solve your problem. Not cheap, but legal if Missouri will accept Broadway’s paperwork.
    Skip Lackie

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    • #3
      title problems

      Thanks I have contacted the owner with no results. I have considered the data plate thing and will probally do just that. There is really nothing shady about this. These old cars were kicked around over the years and were at times worthless. No telling what the history was. To save one is of most importance. thank you for your interest. know to find the right studebaker/pakard blank plate. thanks again rod I hope to post pictures of this unique custom car

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      • #4
        Rod, not sure about Missouri but in Cali we can register a car with nothing more than a bill of sale. You may consider not even trying to use the titke you have and just go with the serial number on the door post. It likely has been out of circulation long enough to just use the Bill of Sale method. In Cali the time is 7 years and all unregistered cars go out of the system unless there is a stolen vehicle report on the vin/serial number.

        That may be an option. I am sure there is a private vehicle registration company somewhere in Missouri that you can consult with, not free, but often worth the price to not deal with a DMV.

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        • #5
          What if you had lost the title and just wanted to apply for a lost title replacement or a bonded title. Good luck many of us have had less than pleasant experiences at DMV, good luck.

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          • #6
            I would go with a reproduction VIN plate for the title you have, assuming the title is valid and easily transferred. I was in a similar situation with my M5 but the title had, in addition to non-matching numbers, some scribbles on the signature line that were crossed out in front of the actual signature -- and a sale date from the 80's. Nobody wanted to touch that thing. I was able to get a title for a vehicle that had never been titled. This is totally legit in the case of farm vehicles that probably never had a title. I doubt this is an option for a station wagon.

            The other possibility is to use the title from the El Camino. You are using the frame and engine of that vehicle and it is arguably more El Camino than it is Studebaker.

            Oh, and the tag on the firewall (57G D1 2209) is the body tag and has nothing to do with the VIN of the car.

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            • #7
              What kind of plates do you plan on putting on it? If you are going to put historic plates on it you can should be able to do it with out ever having the car inspected. Just take your Texas title to the DMV and do the transfer to your name. You will get a new Mo title, with the same vin as the Texas title, and you can then put Missouri historic plates on it without ever having a vehicle inspection. Then if you want you can stamp a new ID plate. Maybe not 100% kosher but it can be done. The big thing is you have a title.

              Sent you a private message also
              Last edited by TDITS; 07-30-2012, 07:42 AM.
              TDITS The Dude In The Stude

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              • #8
                Yikes, good luck with that problem. In Nebraska, if you don't have the entire, original vehicle, you're pretty much toast. I wanted to get a bonded title, and they told me that if anything on the car, including a fender or major engine component had been removed or exchanged, my car was no longer eligible for a bonded title. If I rolled in on a Studebaker sitting on an El Camino chassis, they'd have kittens!

                Honestly, I'd redo the plate. The downside to this is that it's not the original. The upswing though is that if that other car is out there, aparently it's not being registered either. My guess is that at some point, somebody had a couple of them, and this might be the title to their "parts car".
                '63 Lark Custom, 259 v8, auto, child seat

                "Your friendly neighborhood Studebaker evangelist"

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                • #9
                  Get the build sheet from the SNM and it will have the engine number. Then you can show it to the DMV. I like to use the Auto Club. Much easier to do business with. But here in Calif. you have to have the car inspected by the Highway Patrol, even with the AAA. And they are buggers to deal with. I don't have time to tell you all the problems I have had with them over the years.

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                  • #10
                    title problems

                    thanks all I will research all options New data plate seems it will envolve the fewest public officials. I will look for one thanks again rod

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                    • #11
                      Interesting that people consider DMV to be the villan when they try to circumvent the law on vehicle titles.

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                      • #12
                        Guido, In 1983 I bought from a friend at work for $300 a 69 MGC. It had been in a wreck in 77 and he bought it from a body shop that totaled it out from Allstate. In Calif. when you buy a totaled car you have to get a salvage title, that means that the car has to be running and inspect-able to even get a title transfer. I went to the DMV in 2003 a half a dozen times, till I got the paper work right. Took it to the CHP for inspection. They wouldn't even look at it on the trailer, so had to get it on the ground so they could check the brakes and lights. When I went back to the DMV ther woman asked me if the car ever touched a Calif. street or highway, I said no. Then she asked if I took it off the trailer at the CHP, I said yes. She then charged up over $1,800 in license fees, penalties and interest since 77. Saying that the CHP is Calif. property same as streets or highways. Had to go to arbitration. The arbitrator checked everything out and said that he would drop the penalties and interest but I would have to pay the license fees. When I complained he said humor me and pay it, Arnold needs the money.

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                        • #13
                          I have nothing against the DMV in general. They have a tough position. On one hand, they are often the last line of defense before professional car thieves and chop shops get new titles that make cars vanish forever. On the other hand, they have to also be able to serve overall honest people who just want to get a title for the ancient car that's had some situation where the title is no longer there. Before I gave up on the hardtop, I spent almost a month conversing with the assistant director of our state's dmv about how I can get a title. She was nice, and helpful as she could be, but the bottom line is that getting a title isn't easy if you don't have one. It's even more difficult if there are special circumstances, such as crossing state lines.

                          I'd never suggest that doing something underhanded is the best thing, but there are cases where the safety checks put in place to reduce crime prevent otherwise honest people from getting a vehicle legally titled. The gal at the dmv told me several stories of people who spent years working on a car, got to the dmv, and found out that they couldn't get a title for whatever reason. So given the options, doing the easier thing, whether that's a plate swap, contacting a company like broadway title, or whatever gets you to the end result: you have a title for your car.
                          '63 Lark Custom, 259 v8, auto, child seat

                          "Your friendly neighborhood Studebaker evangelist"

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                          • #14
                            Why would someone buy a car to restore without getting a title a title at the time of purchase? Even worse, proceed to dump thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars into a vehicle without ever getting the paperwork straight? Without a title you are not legally considered the owner of a vehicle and leave yourself open to losing your investment. I realize that state laws vary on when titles were first issued, but that information is available online and your DMV can tell you specifically what you need to get such a vehicle titled in your state.

                            People who fail to do their homework deserve what they get later down the road.

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                            • #15
                              Having recently gone through a lost title process on my 58 Golden Hawk in the State of Missouri, you may be in for an uphill battle. The "I" as a "1" set me back several weeks and required a State Police visit. They used the car's serial number on my title (and the original 1958 MO title used the serial number as well). The bottom line is I didn't pay for the car until the title was clear.

                              I just hope you haven't unwittingly helped a poor soul get his long lost Scotsman back after being stolen 30 some years ago...that would really bite for you.

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