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View Full Version : Newbie (1951 Champion) Questions -- Brakes



tviner
06-12-2012, 01:04 PM
Hello all. I am a brand new SDCforum member and proud owner (for the past 9 days) -- 1951 Champion. I have some issues that i am trying to work through, the most troubling is my inexperience in this realm. I am a young member looking for help to learn about my new obsession. The newest issue is that upon arriving home on Saturday after a nice long ride is that the brake pedal was suddenly very soft. I didn't think too much of it as I suspected that maybe this was the first real miles this car has gotten in many years. However, later that night the brake pedal offered no resistance. Leaking under the car. I have read various threads on here and have concluded that the brake fluid is leaking, that it is not the silicone type but rather the alcohol type which removes paint -- i have been careful on that issue. I have talked to a mechanic who was prepared to inspect the vehicle and work on a starter issue which i have been battling without success. This mechanic does not work on brakes. His recommendation was to add brake fluid. DOT5.1 sounds appropriate from what I have read. I have ordered a shop manual but it has not arrived. I cannot find online any instructional information about where/how to add brake fluid.

Questions: Should I attempt to add brake fluid? How/where?

My thought is that I add brake fluid and drive it to a place that can evaluate the issue. It seems maybe that there is a leak and the levels/pressures have dropped to a point of being inoperable. Adding fluid may be a temporary fix and then fixing the leak the next issue. Truth be told, if I can get the brakes working I can then take it to the mechanic I know to address the starter issue then to a place to look at the brakes. If I could find a mechanic who could address all issues that would be better, but I can't reliably drive the car now because getting it started is a real chore.

Next Question: I am in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Does anyone know of a place in CR that would be good for studebaker work?

Thank you in advance. I will take pictures tonight so that I can share those.

62champ
06-12-2012, 01:54 PM
As important as starting a car seems - the ability to stop it is even more important.

The master cylinder (this is a reservoir that holds the brake fluid that is pumped out to the brakes so they can do their thing) on your particular car is not going to be found under the hood. It you follow the brake pedal you will notice it goes down through the floor - that is the location of the master cylinder. Under the carpet/floormat there is a rubber plug that gives you access to the top of the MC. Before you start adding any fluid - I would find out where it is leaking.

Easiest thing to do is look for wet spots on the ground where the car is sitting. Drops on the ground are a dead give-away and with a Studebaker there are probably a lot of them... Do not forget to check the back side of each tire at the bottom as well. If a wheel cylinder is leaking it will start to drip down the bottom of the wheel/tire. Each of the front wheels has a rubber flex line that channels brake fluid to the wheels as well as a single line to the rear axle for both rear brakes. Then there is the master cylinder (under the driver's feet floor board) and possible a hill-holder if the car has one.

Once you find a wet spot then you have found a leak (there could be more...) and then you can start on things that need to be rebuilt/replaced. If you are not confident in these kinds of repairs yourself, find a reliable mechanic nearby you can roll-back it to.

StudeRich
06-12-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't know anything about Dot 5.1 Brake Fluid, it must be something new in the last couple years. But keep in mind that almost all of us have been using Dot 3 Regular Brake fluid forever with only the normal issues with moisture and rust developing over many years and no other problems. I would not spend the extra money for something that is not needed.

The newer high temp. Dot 4 can also be used, and as you read here Dot 5 is the best, but requires all (4) new or very clean wheel Cylinders, Master Cylinder, Brake hoses (3) and sometime steel lines. This may later end up to be your best choice if it needs a full brake restoration, but for now add the Dot 3, find the leak and replace the faulty unit or units.

All of the Parts are available at the the Studebaker Vendors at: studebakervendors.com

52-fan
06-12-2012, 03:03 PM
There is an SDC chapter based around Cedar Rapids, the SDC International meet was there a few years back. Members of the local club will be able to give you advice on repairs and maybe someone in the club can actually help you with them. If someone from there does not post here, a link to the contact information for most chapters is on the SDC main website page.

RadioRoy
06-12-2012, 06:17 PM
The most likely place for the fluid to leak is from the wheel cylinders. And usually from the rear wheel cylinders, probably because they are the hardest ones to reach. :)

The fluid leaks onto the shoes and then the shoes grab and then, with very light pedal pressure, that wheel locks up. It can be very exciting, so be prepared. When you rebuild the cylinders, you can probably clean the brake parts with Simple Green. If the old shoes still have sufficient lining on them, that lining is better than the stuff you can buy today.

Do not attempt to remove the rear drums with the kind of puller that goes around the back side of the drum. That will break the drum and you will have to find newer ones. The pullers that work act on the wheel studs.

Do not remove the internal self adjusters and throw them away because the mechanic does not understand them. If he does so, the brakes cannot be adjusted properly.

Buy a shop manual and at least buy the chassis parts manual. They will serve you quite well in the upcoming adventure.

Lots of good advice here on the forum. Welcome to the world of Studebakers! A bullet-nose is a great place to start.

Don't rush into taking everything apart. It's a hundred times easier to take something apart than to put it pack together again. Many fine cars have been lost in this way.

Don't be too eager to redesign the car. Studebakers may be a bit different than Fords and Chevys in some areas, but in many cases they are better. Spend some time and research what you have. It's a very good, very reliable car if you know how to fix it.

And nothing else on the road looks like it either! :)

rockne10
06-12-2012, 07:11 PM
You definitely need someone in your area to steer you to service providers familiar with Studebakers. Much of it is simple mechanics, familiar to anyone involved in auto maintenance for more than thirty years; not rocket science.
Make contact with members of your local SDC chapter.
Find them here:
http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/lc_IA.asp

tviner
06-13-2012, 11:38 AM
Thank you all for the replies. After reading the above and pondering the issue I decided not to attempt to add brake fluid but rather leave it to pros. I had a flatbed pick her up this am and take her to the shop. The shop called and they're gonna take a look, bleed it out, fix the leak, and put in DOT3. It is Midas but they seemed to know what they were doing. They will take the tires off and take a look at the whole brake system. Anything in particular I should say/do/seek assurance from the shop about? Sounds like they got a kick out of having a mystery studebaker arrive without its owner or instructions (the guy I had talked to must have been gone). Gotta love peoples' reaction to studes. Despite having more contact with mechanics and auto supply shops in the last 7 days than I have my whole life, I am glad I took the plunge.

RadioRoy
06-13-2012, 11:54 AM
Do not attempt to remove the rear drums with the kind of puller that goes around the back side of the drum. That will break the drum and you will have to find newer ones. The pullers that actually work attach to the wheel studs.

Do not remove the internal self adjusters and throw them away because the mechanic does not understand them. If he does so, the brakes cannot be adjusted properly.

rockne10
06-13-2012, 07:43 PM
Call Midas and tell them we can supply the shop manual pages to cover the procedures on these brakes.
Don't let them guess.

tviner
06-15-2012, 08:50 AM
UPDATES: I have talked to Midas quite a few times and they have had her up on the lift for 3 days now. Starter needs to be rebuilt/replaced they think. They have contacted a Des Moines SDC club member to provide/rebuild that. As to the brake problem they found a problem with the hill holder assembly. They can't find a replacement part and say it needs to be rebuilt. A guy who has (I am told) 30 years of experience working on Studebakers is coming over from Dewitt today to look at it.

Midas has been great. They took the lead on looking for NOS parts and making calls. They contacted Studebaker International for parts (which didn't have the hill holder assembly) before I even suggested it. They knew about the issues raised in Roy's message above re rear drums and puller issues.

Any suggestions on the rebuild versus replace question? Is replacing the starter a normal thing or should I press them on this issue?

Thanks, all.

RadioRoy
06-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Replacing the starter is not unusual. There are shops the specialize in starter and generator rebuilding. What is unusual, however, is the starter rebuilding shops doing a good job. They may have to replace the starter a few times to get a good one. But you might get lucky and get a good one the first time around. Be sure that the starter has the correct bolts holding it to the bell housing. they are thicker and serve as a centering device.

It sounds like you have found a good shop, where the mechanics are knowledgeable and are actually interested in fixing your car. Back 40 years ago when I started out in Studebakers, the shops mostly looked down their nose at them (and me) and were very indifferent to the quality of their work.

The hill holder is usually quite reliable, but has kind of a reputation of being hard to rebuild without leaking, or so I have heard. If worse comes to worse, you can bypass the hill holder, but that may not be necessary.

If the car sat unused for many years, rebuilding or replacing the wheel cylinders is a good idea.

Other things to check that will add to the car's ultimate reliability... repack the wheel bearings on the front and shoot grease into the outer rear ones.

Replace the flexible oil hose on the top back of the engine that feeds the oil pressure gauge. It makes a mess when it bursts under pressure and empties the crankcase very quickly, and may blow up the engine. The Studebaker vendors have them with the correct fittings on them.

Replace the flexible fuel line that goes from the inner front fender to the steel fuel line to the carburetor. They can crack invisibly without leaking fuel and then the fuel pump sucks air and starves the carburetor.

Grease ALL of the fittings on the front suspension, including the two that always get missed: the one on the center crank, right under the engine, and the one on the bell housing where the clutch linkage goes through the bell housing. Grease the one under the hood, at the bottom of the steering column, where the shift levers come out of the column. That will help make the shifting easier.

In fact, grease and oil everything if it moves. :)

Fill up the steering box. I like to use STP for that.

Check the level of fluid in the transmission at BOTH points. Use GL-1, or straight 40 wt engine oil. Do NOT use GL-4 or GL-5 with anti friction additives. The additives will attack the synchronizers and cause the car to shift less smoothly.

Buy the shop manual and the chassis parts manual and read them. Learn all you can and have fun with less break downs. :)

tviner
06-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Word is that I need a new 6v generator. When they charge it up it starts w/o trouble. Brand new battery, so, something is draining it. The guy I bought it from had put in a new wiring harness (Whitney - sp?) and he put a separate switch in to activate the overdrive. That is the only thing I can think of here. So, I need a new generator and Studebaker International wants us to mail the one I have to them. Is that normal? I am thinking what I need is to just buy a NOS generator, take it to Midas, and get this show back on the road. Thoughts?

Next issue is the Hill Holder Assembly. Can't find one to buy. The guy here can get a kit and rebuild it or we can bypass it. Thoughts?

Roy -- Thanks again. You are full of information and I really appreciate your input. I now have the Shop Manual and Parts Catalog.

Picture is now my avatar and same is in my profile. Will try to add more this weekend.

Tom

RadioRoy
06-15-2012, 05:06 PM
So... the starter is OK?

It's a slippery slope, between the generator and the voltage regulator, as to which is killing which, when one dies.

There are tests to tell if the generator is bad. They involve grounding the field terminal when the car is running, but these mechanics ought to know that. The generator is the same as a Plymouth and Dodge, so they should not be that hard to find.

BTW, the battery in your car is POSITIVE GROUND. If the battery is hooked up wrong, it could have an adverse affect on the voltage regulator.

But before applying the shot gun approach (replacing everything you can think of) the best thing to do is figure out what is wrong. It's a basic tenant of troubleshooting that many folks don't take the time to do.

Is the battery not being charged when the car is running?
Or is something discharging the battery when the car is not running?
two different problems with two different fixes.

The hill holders are usually trouble free if they have not been messed with. I have heard that it is difficult to rebuild them without having them leak afterwards, but have no experience with that, as i was smart enough to leave mine alone. :) Since yours is leaking already, what have you got to lose? the worst than can happen is that you end up bypassing it with a piece of brake line. But whatever you do, don't take it out and throw it away. If you cannot fix it now, maybe you or somebody can fix it sometime in the future.

rockne10
06-15-2012, 06:41 PM
I would try an alcohol flush on the hill holder. There is little to go wrong and they do have the reputation of leaking after a rebuild. If it doesn't cure the problem, bypass it.

Corvanti
06-15-2012, 07:02 PM
also, check your ground wires and maybe run an extra from the engine to the frame... :)

RadioRoy
06-20-2012, 03:37 PM
So what has been happening on this? Is the car back on the road? Does Midas have the magic touch? :)

tviner
06-22-2012, 10:28 AM
The update is that finding a Hill Holder NOS is tough. Studebaker International wants me to get a rebuild kit and says you can't buy a new one or that they don't have one. They do have it in their catalog, though. Anyway...my reading says that rebuilding it is not a sure thing and that you might still have leaks...lady at International did not agree with that proposition. We went round and round initially due to a difference in terminology (Hill Holder versus "anti-creep" device).

The generator news is much better. I (guy at Midas set it up) am having a guy in-town rebuild it. That sounds promising.

I ask for your ideas about the Hill Holder. Am I missing something here? It seems like it should like any part and I should be able to buy and have it installed. It is connected the brake system and I need it to stop leaking or need to bypass it. Correct? Studebaker Intl wants to sell me a bypass device. I don't understand this piece of it. I just miss driving it really.

There's the update. Three other issues: Gas gauge doesn't work. Horn doesn't work. Trunk won't latch. there is a latch piece there and the trunk latch device appears operational. It seems the latch piece attached to the body (the receiving piece which I am sure has a name) seems too short. Anybody have an idea?

Thanks all.

tom

52-fan
06-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Regarding the trunk latch problem. Has the gasket around the trunk been replaced? It may be thicker than the original and need time to get sqeezed down. There is some up and down adjustment to the latch piece on the edge of the opening, but if its already as far up as it will go that's out.
Have you tried dropping the lid so it slams fairly hard? My 52 always required a pretty sharp lick to close. Not too hard but very solid.

tviner
06-22-2012, 01:06 PM
I have not examined it very carefully -- will do when I get her home. I did slam it accidentally and that got it but also created a need to have the locksmith come because it locked when that happen and it wouldn't unlock (something inside the lock was bent previously we think). So, I tend to agree with you that adjustment to bring the piece "up" higher would do the trick. Thanks for your response.

RadioRoy
07-03-2012, 05:41 PM
What's the latest on this? Are you happily motoring around town, impressing everyone with your unique ride for the holiday?

avantilover
07-04-2012, 02:31 AM
Word is that I need a new 6v generator. When they charge it up it starts w/o trouble. Brand new battery, so, something is draining it. The guy I bought it from had put in a new wiring harness (Whitney - sp?) and he put a separate switch in to activate the overdrive. That is the only thing I can think of here. So, I need a new generator and Studebaker International wants us to mail the one I have to them. Is that normal? I am thinking what I need is to just buy a NOS generator, take it to Midas, and get this show back on the road. Thoughts?

Next issue is the Hill Holder Assembly. Can't find one to buy. The guy here can get a kit and rebuild it or we can bypass it. Thoughts?

Roy -- Thanks again. You are full of information and I really appreciate your input. I now have the Shop Manual and Parts Catalog.

Picture is now my avatar and same is in my profile. Will try to add more this weekend.

Tom

Sometimes Studebaker International want your old parts to rebuild for later sale as they are often difficult to find. Nothing unusual/wrong with that, we'd all be lost with them they're a great vendor.

dpson
07-04-2012, 04:46 AM
I have a NOS No-Rol (Hillholder) kit AC-2104 for a 1950 Champion. The No-Rol "valve" is the same as for 1951. According to the parts books the difference in the kits between 1950 and 1951 is in the levers, which you should already have. Drop me an email if interested: dpson1954@comcast.net.

Roscomacaw
07-04-2012, 09:31 AM
If I might chime in here - we certainly understand your enchantment with this car. But while it IS just a car, and there ARE still folks that call themselves "mechanics", having to rely on places like Midas to keep it on the road is going to quickly prove to be a costly endeavor. What I'd do - were I you - is find whatever chapter of the Studebaker Drivers Club might cover your area and see if among them is someone with a technical bent that could act, at least, as an advisor.
While drum brakes are still in use on much more modern cars, I'd wager that these fellas at Midas have NEVER seen the sorta self-adjustment slugs that your '51 uses. And who and how was the generator deemed bad? A "rebuild" can cost as much as $200 these days. A fresh set of brushes can cost less than a buck. But you're at the mercy of the "experts" you're going to. I'm NOT insinuating that they are ill-intentioned or greedy - just that they may not have your best interests at heart. Be savvy, eh?

candbstudebakers
07-04-2012, 09:48 AM
Tom welcome, one man you need to know living in Iowa is Alan Meeker, he lives in Marion Iowa, his number is 319-377-1069, call him and ask for help, other around you will also know Alan,...Bob

tviner
07-09-2012, 03:40 PM
Roy:

She is still in the shop. Generator and distributor both rebuilt by a local guy that Midas found. In our 3d week of waiting for delivery of parts for Hillholder.

Roscomacaw: I agree with your concern. I am anxious about the money part of the Midas adventure but my local options wanted nothing to do with brake problems and my research on this site and talking to a few other folks made me believe I had to send it off. The tires have come off and gone back on. I forwarded the concern about self-adjusters and the like to Midas (which came to me front a SDC forum user above) and they said that they brought in someone who had worked on Studebakers before and he was aware. I have also annoyed the hell out of them I am afraid by calling at the end of each day to get a status report. Although I have not seen the finished product (or any estimate of cost) I think they have been great. I am told that the generator and distributor have gone back in and starting is no longer a problem. However, there is still something draining the battery. My hill holder is setup kind of strange with a seperate switch (in addition to the pull knob). Any ideas here?

DAN: If I don't have the parts by Wednesday for the Hill Holder I will call you. Thanks for putting that out there.

I will call Mr. Meeker this week. Great contact, thank you.

Thank you all for the messages. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the input. This process has been fun/scary/eyeopening and I look forward to more.

RadioRoy
07-10-2012, 12:50 AM
The hill holder does not have a switch or a knob. Are you confusing the hill holder with the overdrive?

tviner
07-10-2012, 08:32 AM
Yes, overdrive, my mistake.

ddub
07-10-2012, 11:17 AM
I have never seen Iowa, my impression is it is pretty flat. Here in the Great Northwest a hill holder is a great option, lots of hills to hold. But if you won't be driving where hill starts are a challenge, just by-pass the hill holder. Millions of brand X drivers get by without one.

Do get ahold of local SDC floks. They know who to trust with your car.

RadioRoy
07-10-2012, 11:28 AM
The overdrive is the most useful system on the car, one of the simpler ones, and for some strange reason the most universally misunderstood.

To use it, all you have to do is push in the handle and forget it. It works automatically without being conscious of it. It acts like 5th gear in a 5 speed transmission, and slows the engine down, giving better mileage and quieter engine running. The only time the handle needs to be pulled out is if you are going down a steep hill, or if the car is being pushed to start it.

When you get back on the road, do not attempt to go over about 45 with the handle out. Your car has a 4.56 rear axle ratio and the engine will scream at highway speed without using the overdrive.

Every time I see an overdrive equipped car with the handle pulled out, I wonder what the driver is thinking. Usually they do not understand what it is for, or are afraid of it for some reason (probably because they do not understand it). Just leave it pushed in and ignore it. It will shift at the correct times like it was designed to - it it is working properly of course.

tviner
07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
My overdrive is connected to a switch that has to be turned on after knob is pushed in.

O/d vs no o/d is a huge diff I agree. I can go 75 with or 45 without.

Can someone tell me generally how bypassing the hillholder wd go? I want to get driving again and studebaker intl has been playing phone tag and asking my mechanic o call back later for 2 weeks.

RadioRoy
07-10-2012, 05:51 PM
to bypass the hill holder, just get a piece of brake line tubing with both ends and two female/female adapters. Connect the brake line that originally went IN to the hill holder to the new brake line. Connect the other end of the new brake line to the brake like that originally came OUT of the hill holder and bleed, bleed, bleed the brake lines.

On the overdrive, since it is a 33% reduction, you can go 45 in direct or 67 1/2 in overdrive for the same engine speed.

tviner
07-20-2012, 01:05 PM
Great news from the CR Studebaker front. Got her back last week and have essentially driven it every moment since.

Midas did a great job with the help of SDCf's recommended guru, Al Meeker. Talked to Al a bunch and then got him involved with Midas and he pointed them in the right direction. Al then invited me to the SDC meeting last weekend. It was a lot of fun. Was driving downtown CR two days later and noticed someone was following me and was waiting while I parallel parked -- it was Al stalking what he thought was a new Studebaker driver. Kind of funny.

Thanks for the recommendation, Bob @ candbstudebakers.

The most common comment I get from people is that "I used to have a ....." or "Whose car is this? This is not your car..." Last night a man came up and insisted that I must have borrowed it from someone or that I had inherited it from my grandmother. Either I look younger than I think or people aren't used to seeing 30-somethings in 60-something cars. It's such a great car. Thanks for all the comments on here, it was a great help.

mbstude
07-20-2012, 02:19 PM
The most common comment I get from people is that "I used to have a ....." or "Whose car is this? This is not your car..." Last night a man came up and insisted that I must have borrowed it from someone or that I had inherited it from my grandmother. Either I look younger than I think or people aren't used to seeing 30-somethings in 60-something cars. It's such a great car. Thanks for all the comments on here, it was a great help.

Congrats! I know the feeling. I'm 22 and take care of a pretty nice '51 Champion coupe for a friend. Every time I take it out, someone always asks "Where'd you find that?" I always reply with "Oh, I bought it new." It leaves them scratching their head for a minute.

tviner
07-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Worst sound I have heard yet -- speedometer cable going out. What is the best way to fix this issue? New cable?

Roscomacaw
07-31-2012, 10:59 AM
You MIGHT get by with lubricating it. But FIRST.... on the back of the speedometer - just above where the cable attaches - there's a tiny hole that likely hasn't seen any oil it's there to receive since the car was built! A drop or two of 3-1 oil might stop the racket. If that don't get it, you disconnect the speedo cable housing and extract the cable. Then you lube it with some graphite (auto store available) , Slide it back in and twiddle it until the far end re-engages the drive gear in the tranny. Reconnect it to the Speedo and you're good to go. Of course, IF the cable should be frayed or kinked when you get it out, you'll have to get a replacment from a Stude parts vendor.

tviner
07-31-2012, 11:13 AM
Great tips. I will have to try to identify the cable. I have the shop manual but still had trouble -- any additional thoughts? Mechanic?

RadioRoy
07-31-2012, 01:19 PM
Now that you are a proud Studebaker owner, the next step is to learn to do some of these little things for yourself. Lubricating the speedometer is a good way to start. The chassis parts manual shows all of these parts in detail.

Disconnect the battery cable (you do not want to start an electrical fire in your new baby) and cover the drivers side floor of the car with newspapers.

Try oiling the hole first, like Roscoe says. the hole is on the body of the speedometer, right where the cable plugs in. You cannot see it as it is on the top and you are looking up from the bottom, but it is there. fill it with a few drops, let it soak in an hour or so, and fill it again.

If that does not quiet the speedometer, you can lube the cable.

The speedometer cable is the flexible silver colored metal one that goes into the back of the speedometer right where the speedometer needle rotates. It's held in with a knurled nut that you can remove with your fingers if you are lucky, or with a pair of pliers. It is a rotating compressed spring-like looking thing that rotates inside of an outer sheathing. It's construction is similar to the brake cable on a bicycle in that the center moves in relation to the jacket, but is designed to rotate rather than push-pull. It is not an electrical cable.

Again Disconnect the battery cable and cover the drivers side floor of the car with newspapers. Disconnect the knurled nut and pull the cable out of the back of the speedometer. Once you get it free, you can pull the center/core out of it. This is where the newspapers come in. Wipe the cable center down with a rag, mark with a magic marker WHICH END IS THE BOTTOM AND WHICH IS THE TOP and inspect it for kinks and sharp spots. If there are any, you need to buy a new cable core. The Studebaker parts dealers have them. Keep the old one until you get the new one and compare their lengths and ends.

As you feed the core back into the housing, smear it with a light dose of speedometer cable grease, or any lightweight grease. Chassis grease and petroleum jelly will not work. Do not get any dirt mixed in with the grease. Dirt will jam the thing up.Once you get it all the way in, rotate it by hand like Roscoe said until it clicks into the gear at the transmission and goes all the way in. Then hook it back into the speedometer and rotate it again until the top end goes all the way back in before tightening the nut.

Do not force anything.

Do not fret. It is really much simpler to do than it is to explain.

Now you can drive it and be proud that you did it yourself.

Roscomacaw
07-31-2012, 01:30 PM
Roy gives good directions. Invest in a little extendable inspection mirror - any GOOD auto parts store should have one available. Won't be expensive - WILL make finding that oil hole alot easier tho!

RadioRoy
07-31-2012, 02:30 PM
And a few words of caution. When you are up behind the dash, be gentle! Don't be a bull in a china shop.

The wires for the dash instruments and lights are all around you up there. They are brittle from age and will not flex like modern vinyl covered wire. Leave them alone! Do not try to move them out of the way. If you try to bend them or move them, the insulation will crack and fall away.

They are OK if you just leave them alone. If you mess with them and crack the insulation, you will have more trouble on your hands than you can fix.

tviner
08-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Got it worked out. Thanks for the tips.

tviner
10-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Water Pump.
I need some help diagnosing the problem. The water pump went out in early September. Ordered a new one from Studebaker Intl, had it installed. Drove it a few days but anytime I was driving in-town it would get really hot and I could smell the anti-freeze boiling. On the highway it was fine. It was as though it needed high speeds to get the coolant circulating. The guy I had put the new water pump in put a new 13psi cap on it and I thought that was the problem, as the book calls for a 7si cap. Studebaker Intl tells me a 4psi is best, but either a 4 or 7 should work.

Question, why is it still overheating? I put the new cap on yesterday hoping that the 13psi cap had failed and that it had no pressure and that the new cap would give it the pressure it needed to circulate while idling parked. Did not work. it overheated in 10 minutes and filled the garage with steam. The radiator is filled with coolant. It has a new waterpump. The fan runs. The fan seems appropriately tight.

Any ideas out there in Studebaker land?

RadioRoy
10-21-2012, 01:51 PM
From this description can we ASSUME that the car did NOT overheat with the old water pump? If that is the case, then something is going on with the new water pump, the installation process of the pump, or the fan belt is too loose.

You might have gotten a bad water pump. Sometimes the repro pumps are manufactured incorrectly.

There might be some silicone seal or other gasket-like material stuck somewhere it should not be.

The mechanic might have flexed the radiator hoses too far and cracked/broken them and they might be closing up internally.

Don't drive it on the highway until you get it fixed. It's probably still overheating, but the wind keeps the smell away from your nose.

If it was overheating BEFORE you put on the new pump, then there are lots of other things to look at.

But the point is, if it was not overheating with the old pump, and started overheating only after the new pump was installed, then something happened during the installation process. That rules out looking at all the standard things, like crud in the water jackets, blown head gasket and stuff like that.

It could still be a collapsed radiator hose, as that might have been damaged by over flexing it during the pump installation process.

tviner
11-03-2012, 02:45 PM
Roy:

I took it to someone who I knew could figure it out and they did, but for the sake of argument here are some addtl pieces:

The old waterpump was cracked and before such, there was no overheating. It seemed that after the initial installation the waterpump was itself sound, belt was tight, fan was tight, but thermostat said HOT. It would even overheat just idling.

SOO, took it to my guy, told him the deal. He said "give me a few days." He called to say that he thought it was an air bubble / pocket in the system. He put the car vertical (or as close as he could) and flushed it and then refilled it.

It now works perfectly -- cool as a cucumber. Weird. I wanted to bring it (the studebaker) on my trip to Indianapolis this weekend and swing by South Bend but to no avail, my wife insists on a car with a child seat for our newborn. Maybe next time.

Tom

deco_droid
11-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Roy:
It now works perfectly -- cool as a cucumber. Weird. I wanted to bring it (the studebaker) on my trip to Indianapolis this weekend and swing by South Bend but to no avail, my wife insists on a car with a child seat for our newborn. Maybe next time.
Tom

Sounds like somebody may need to install some seatbelts in that Stude -- heh!
I just put some in my car, and my 5 year old is really enjoying riding in her "Studey" :)

tviner
01-14-2013, 03:06 PM
@deco_droid. I don't know if I could handle seatbelts in there, just doesn't seem right in a way. Would be fun, though.

Iowa winters make Studebaker addiction difficult. Anyone out there feel my pain? To cope I have started seeking out more and more obscure details to address. I have started looking for NOS console light, door handle pieces, etc. Kinda fund if you ask me.

Anyone wanna enlighten me with other ideas of how to expand my Stude-obsession?