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tazman1615
04-30-2012, 07:30 PM
My dad has a 1964 Daytona convertible with an R3 engine in it. It has less than 3000 miles on it. Looking for an idea of its value. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Randy_G
04-30-2012, 07:32 PM
Photos of it would go a long ways in making that call.

Dick Steinkamp
04-30-2012, 07:44 PM
Photos of it would go a long ways in making that call.

In addition to photos...car SN, body tag number, and engine SN.

Milaca
04-30-2012, 08:51 PM
Is it a restored car or in good original condition or ???

tazman1615
04-30-2012, 09:45 PM
Add several pictures. The car has not been restored, it is original condition including the top. I will get the SN's and post.

StudeMichael
04-30-2012, 09:46 PM
Dang!!! Very nice and with Halibrands to boot :) Does it have any rust issues?

DEEPNHOCK
04-30-2012, 09:50 PM
Is your dad OK?


My dad has a 1964 Daytona convertible with an R3 engine in it. It has less than 3000 miles on it. Looking for an idea of its value. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bob Caser
04-30-2012, 09:55 PM
I think that is a car that Ed Reynolds restored a number of years ago.
Bob Caser

tazman1615
04-30-2012, 10:03 PM
No rust issues that I saw.

Green53
04-30-2012, 10:04 PM
I'm quite sure that is Ed's former car. I think the engine may be out of one of the Bonneville cars.

Denny L

tazman1615
04-30-2012, 10:04 PM
He is doing fine but getting older and is thinking of selling the car.

tazman1615
04-30-2012, 10:10 PM
Newbie here so trying to figure out how to post more photos. According to my dad the car was ordered with the R3 engine and delivered to CA. It has the R3 badges on it.

tazman1615
04-30-2012, 10:23 PM
Have added album with additional pictures.

mbstude
04-30-2012, 10:29 PM
I was thinking that Ed R.'s former car had the R3 out of one of the 9 Avantis.

There were no factory built R3 convertibles. Just 9 Avantis and one Commander 2 door sedan.

But regardless.. Very cool car.

BobPalma
04-30-2012, 10:31 PM
I think that is a car that Ed Reynolds restored a number of years ago. Bob Caser

That's what I was thinking, Bob. IIRC, the car Ed assembled was silver, but it's been awhile. Perhaps Ed will post. I've often wondered what happened to that car; it's been a long time since I saw it.

Hmmm....wouldn't it be something if this car was body #64V-L8 423? Remember, 1964 Daytona Convertible Body #423 has never been accounted for; there is no known Serial Number assigned to a convertible built with Body #423.

IF this is a South-Bend car (note the all-white steering wheel) with any Body Number other than 423, we can document that it was not shipped with an R3 engine. But with a white steering wheel, Body #423 unaccounted for, and Hamilton-produced 1964 V8 convertibles not in the mix, "Never say never." BP

EDIT: Ed Reynolds has confirmed it was his car and he confirmed the color black, not silver.

davepink53
04-30-2012, 10:51 PM
If my Dad owned that, there would be no way I would let him sell it!

Milaca
04-30-2012, 10:53 PM
Look at Steve's (tazman's) profile and you will find an album of more photos. Looks like a great car but the value will vary depending on how original it is (if equipped that way from the factory or not) and overall condition. If you provide the serial number and body number, Bob Palma may be able to verify its history. Does it run and drive? How long has it been since last driven? I'm too ignorant to know its value and will leave that to the more experienced here. :)

clonelark
04-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Can your dad wait till the next lottery, i'm buying several tickets.

candbstudebakers
04-30-2012, 11:38 PM
Thats the first 200 mph speedo I have seen and it is in miles?

289stude
05-01-2012, 12:08 AM
Tazman1516 please PM me with your phone number. I will be going right through Charlotte next week on my way home from FL. I would love to stop to take a look. I tried sending you a PM but it doesn't always work from my iPhone. If you got it my number is included.

BobPalma
05-01-2012, 06:23 AM
Thats the first 200 mph speedo I have seen and it is in miles?

Bob, I'm sure that's KPH, not MPH.

'Looked at all the slides in his profile and still can't see any body, engine, or serial numbers. It will remain a mystery until those are determined.

'Looking forward to seeing them...or at least one of them. Take a good look, John, if you're able sneak a peek while going through Charlotte. BP

JDP
05-01-2012, 06:29 AM
Look at Steve's (tazman's) profile and you will find an album of more photos. Looks like a great car but the value will vary depending on how original it is (if equipped that way from the factory or not) and overall condition. If you provide the serial number and body number, Bob Palma may be able to verify its history. Does it run and drive? How long has it been since last driven? I'm too ignorant to know its value and will leave that to the more experienced here. :)

So many ways to go on the car even if the R3 was a swap. You could sell the R3 engine for 10K or so and build the car to the build sheet. Even if the car was a R2 from the factory, it should bring north of 25-30K if it's nice. If as Bob suggests it's a a possible previously unknown R3 convert it could be worth well more.

nels
05-01-2012, 06:52 AM
I know the car. It is a Canadian built car that Ed Reynolds modified years ago. It was restored back in the 80's and is not original R3. Nice car but needs "plenty" of tlc.

stratovue
05-01-2012, 07:15 AM
I can verify that it was my 1964 convertible. I owned it for many years and restored it along with the engine swap in the late seventies. I trailered it to Gettysburg, PA in 1980 for the SDC meet. It is a Canadian built car that came with a 289 engine and automatic trans. I originally was going to put an R-1 in it but then I found a rusty R-2 1963 Cruiser which I parted out. I rebuilt its engine and had it all detailed and ready to install in the convertible when I heard about the R-3. It is from one of the original R-3 Avantis. In about 1983 I sold the car to Roy Heckers in Chula Vista, CA and I lost track of the car after he sold it a couple of years later.

Ed Reynolds

53k
05-01-2012, 07:45 AM
I remember seeing the car at an early '80s South Bend International. I talked to the owner and I believe he was from Memphis.

JimC
05-01-2012, 07:55 AM
Since nobody's actually given a price yet, I'll go ahead and step out on a limb and make this super special one time offer. If you're really looking to get rid of this thing, I can offer you a whole $500 (five-hundred) for it. I know, I know, how does my wife put up with my generosity? I'll even fly out to wherever you are so you don't have to work for all that money. Actually, make it $300, since I'll need to rent a truck and trailer to get it home. I can even deliver that in one dollar bills, so you can have a nice little pile of cash to roll around in. But hurry, you may never get an offer like this again! :D

Joking aside, beautiful car. I won't even guess at it's value, aside from saying that $500 wouldn't come close to buying the drive train out of that car! (But if it would, give me a call!)

SN-60
05-01-2012, 08:26 AM
To: tazman 1615,----- Assembled or not, Your father's car is the one that many Studebaker fans would order if they could go back in time. It's worth a minimum of $50,000.00, assuming it has a solid body. (check the wheels!)

Pat Dilling
05-01-2012, 09:31 AM
A good way to determine the value is to clean it up and have a certified appraiser, familiar with Studebakers, appraise it, then put it in a well advertised auction, or on EBAY. If you really want it sold, put a reserve on it that is acceptable. If you are just trying to find the market value put a way high reserve on it and see where the bidding goes. In any case you should establish value for it so you can be sure it is adequately insured.

Roscomacaw
05-01-2012, 09:40 AM
Here's a question: All things being equal - what's worth more here - the R3 motor or the '64 ragtop???

And yes, I'm looking for answers with passion as much as calculation.

Dick Steinkamp
05-01-2012, 10:20 AM
Here's a question: All things being equal - what's worth more here - the R3 motor or the '64 ragtop???

And yes, I'm looking for answers with passion as much as calculation.

Interesting question.

NADA high retail on a V8 auto 64 Daytona convert is $18.3. OCPG puts a #2 (same as NADA's "high") at $12k. I think OCPG is low in this case and NADA close. Let's say a nice one COULD do $20k with the right marketing.

Not much to go on with the car in question. It looks like it would probably need some freshening and would not currently fall into the high book category.



An R3 engine is anybody's guess. Everybody wants one...very few real buyers. I'd GUESS a complete, running R3 might bring $15k.

Real hard to tell about the one here. Even with only 3,000 miles on it, if you actually wanted to run it hard, you would need to tear it down and at least inspect everything...maybe more depending upon what you find.


So, if you put them both together (the current car brought up to #2 standards and the current R3) does it make a $35k car? IMHO, the engine would add essentially the same value value to any 1964 Studebaker since it is not original to this car and I don't believe it would add $15k.

mbstude
05-01-2012, 10:30 AM
Here's a question: All things being equal - what's worth more here - the R3 motor or the '64 ragtop???

And yes, I'm looking for answers with passion as much as calculation.

To the owner of the Avanti that the engine came out of.. That engine would nearly be priceless.

Blue 15G
05-01-2012, 10:33 AM
To answer your original question about its value, I think the only answer is "Name your Price." You'll get it.

Dave Bonn
'54 Champion Starliner

studegary
05-01-2012, 01:11 PM
If I had to make a guesstimate, I would say $25K. That is $15K for the convertible, plus $10K added for a true R3.
To determine today's value, put it on eBay at a low starting bid and a reserve that you can live with and let the market establish the price.

r1lark
05-01-2012, 01:14 PM
I can verify that it was my 1964 convertible. I owned it for many years and restored it along with the engine swap in the late seventies. I trailered it to Gettysburg, PA in 1980 for the SDC meet. It is a Canadian built car that came with a 289 engine and automatic trans. I originally was going to put an R-1 in it but then I found a rusty R-2 1963 Cruiser which I parted out. I rebuilt its engine and had it all detailed and ready to install in the convertible when I heard about the R-3. It is from one of the original R-3 Avantis. In about 1983 I sold the car to Roy Heckers in Chula Vista, CA and I lost track of the car after he sold it a couple of years later.

Ed Reynolds

Yep, I was thinking that Roy owned that convertible for a while but had not had a chance to verify it. Can remember that many times it was featured prominently in his full page Turning Wheels parts ads in the early to mid-eighties.

PackardV8
05-01-2012, 02:04 PM
It's worth a minimum of $50,000.00


I think the only answer is "Name your Price." You'll get it.


To the owner of the Avanti that the engine came out of.. That engine would nearly be priceless.

Could some of us have had a bit too much coffee this morning????????

jack vines

StudeMichael
05-01-2012, 02:35 PM
$5,000.00 for the Halibrands
$15,000.00 for the car
$25,000.00 for the original R3 engine that was in one of the 9 R3 Avantis. That means a lot. There should be a "B" number on the top front of the engine block. What is that number?

$45,000.00 total

pdrnec
05-01-2012, 03:12 PM
Like someone said, put it on eBay with a high reserve and see what the market will bear. I don't think anyone is doing the OP any favors by throwing around astronomical numbers. He could easily wind up being buried in something because "he knows how much it's worth, those Studebaker guys said so"

$50,000? What's the highest price any Studebaker has ever brought? Anybody know?

I seem to remember an R4 crate motor having sold - how much did that go for?

If the car has been sitting for 10, 15, 20 years or more you're looking at a significant amount of work to make it more than cosmetically appealing. Maybe you get $50K for it AFTER all that has been done.

SN-60
05-01-2012, 03:50 PM
The fact that that engine is sitting in a vehicle that it actually could have been ordered in is important. Also, the Convertible Daytona would always be worth more than any 'Lark Type' closed body style. I believe we're talking
about a one of a kind dream car here. If the body is sound, and the car is advertised correctly, $50,000.00 would definitely be the low end. A 'garden variety' (albeit perfect) '57 Golden sold for $145.000.00 recently.

Bob Andrews
05-01-2012, 04:35 PM
If you're looking to maximize value, here's what I'd do: find a quality, running regular 289; detail it and put it in the car. Sell the car and the r3 engine separately.

Being that the engine isn't original to the car, this would make the most sense. A decent Daytona convertible is worth pretty good money. But even more desirable is that engine. There are probably a few who would buy that car just to rob the engine, put another engine in, and resell the car; or, buy it and do the swap because they want the car, and then sell the r3 hoping to recoup most of the cost for the car. Either way, there will be a lot more that would be interested in the engine by itself than the whole package.

If the car was born with that engine, then that would by far be the best way to sell. Maybe then it would be worth some of these crazy prices we've seen here. But it is my guess that your father could net a lot more by separating the car and engine, even after the cost/effort to put a different engine in the car. Food for thought anyway.

mbstude
05-01-2012, 04:36 PM
An NOS in the crate R3 sold a few years ago for over $20K, and it had to be rebuilt. You simply can't build an R3 engine for $10,000. You're gonna spend more than that.

Since it isn't "just" a B block but is the original engine from one of the 9 Avantis, I personally think that the engine should go back with that Avanti, and would have more value to the owner of that car than anyone else. But that's just me.

JimC
05-01-2012, 05:24 PM
That begs the question though, does that avanti still exist? If so, how did it get split from this engine in the first place?

StudeMichael
05-01-2012, 05:36 PM
Yes, The car still exists. Roy Hecker's took the R3 engine out. Speaking of values Sherwood Egbert's Avanti went for $75,000.00 and it was not one of the 9 factory Avanti's.

jlmccuan
05-01-2012, 05:39 PM
Possibly from Avanti 5532, the 4th production Avanti R3, as I have records of the remaining 8 wherabouts as of 2000

SN-60
05-01-2012, 05:56 PM
It would also be nice to reunite the'Due Cento' engine with the Avanti it ran in at Bonneville, but since these things may or may not ever happen, the questions remains what the possible value might be of this
top of the line '64 Daytona Convertible, that happens to contain one of the rarest engines Studebaker ever built. (and how about those wheels?)

mbstude
05-01-2012, 06:00 PM
It would also be nice to reunite the'Due Cento' engine with the Avanti it ran in at Bonneville, but since these things may or may not ever happen, the questions remains what the possible value might be of this
top of the line '64 Daytona Convertible, that happens to contain one of the rarest engines Studebaker ever built. (and how about those wheels?)

This is another story for another thread for another day... But the Due Cento engine has been found and there are plans to reunite it with the car later this year.

SN-60
05-01-2012, 06:11 PM
No Matt, We're talking what 'if's' here, so the question of re-unification of original engine/chassis combos is quite appropriate! (Greg sure saved some rare parts from oblivion)

Dick Steinkamp
05-01-2012, 06:52 PM
Could some of us have had a bit too much coffee this morning????????

jack vines

Let's see what actually happens if (for example) it is offered for $40k. That should be an immediate sale to some posters here...right? If not, it just could be the coffee ;).

R2Andrea
05-01-2012, 06:54 PM
Yes the Avanti that this engine was originally installed in still exists. No, Roy Heckers only involvment was.buying the Daytona convertible with the engine already installed. The Avanti and its original R3 parted ways very early.

BobPalma
05-01-2012, 06:59 PM
Let's see what actually happens if (for example) it is offered for $40k. That should be an immediate sale to some posters here...right? If not, it just could be the coffee...).

Good one, Dick. <GGG> BP

Bob Caser
05-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Yes, The car still exists. Roy Hecker's took the R3 engine out. Speaking of values Sherwood Egbert's Avanti went for $75,000.00 and it was not one of the 9 factory Avanti's.

In my opinion Sherwood Egbert's Avanti would be the top of the mark. The factory would have built more than 9 R3 cars if there were orders for them. The Sherwood Egbert car was special in many ways just as you avatar shows the emblems ( SE) In 1965 you could have bought a R3 or R4 from Paxton products and even had Vince Granatelli ( Andy's son ) due the installation. If Egbert's Avanti was a Corvette belonging to Bill Mitchell or Zora Duntov it would have sold for over $250,000 a few years ago. Once again just my opinion.

Bob Caser

r1lark
05-01-2012, 07:49 PM
and even had Vince Granatelli ( Andy's son ) due the installation.

I believe Vince was Andy's brother, not his son.

Bob Caser
05-01-2012, 07:53 PM
I believe Vince was Andy's brother, not his son.

Andy has a son named Vince as well as a brother. I tried to buy a R3 conversion from Vince in 1965 , but he wanted to much money at the time. No regrets in not buying it though.

Bob Caser

SN-60
05-01-2012, 10:28 PM
I believe some (well meaning) posters feel that as much as They like Studebakers, even the most desired examples of the marque will never bring more than 25K. In a way, I wish these folks were right, and We could all
buy the models We want for 'short money'. But with the big auctions going on around the Country, e-bay motors, etc. the reality is the value of these automobiles has noticeably escalated..... like it or not.

StudeMichael
05-01-2012, 11:17 PM
For many years Studebaker's were the unwanted orphans and very cheap. That is what attracted the CASO crowd. I agree that things have changed. Studebaker's have gained a lot of popularity in recent years.

1962larksedan
05-01-2012, 11:26 PM
For many years Studebaker's were the unwanted orphans and very cheap. That is what attracted the CASO crowd. I agree that things have changed. Studebaker's have gained a lot of popularity in recent years.

Judging by various Stude shows I've attended in recent years: the Hawks and other C/K's are quite popular with Lark type two door hardtops a close second.

Dick Steinkamp
05-01-2012, 11:30 PM
Here are the 93 Studebakers that completed their eBay listing in April...

eBay Studebakers Completed Listings (http://motors.completed.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?LH_Complete=1&_trkparms=65%253A13%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_nkw=studebaker&_dmpt=US_Cars_Trucks&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1581&_pgn=2)

Of the 93, 28 sold...the remainder did not meet reserve or get an acceptable offer. In other words, 76% of the owners had an over inflated idea of the value of their Studebaker relative to the market.

JimC
05-01-2012, 11:37 PM
I will admit that my feelings are that asking Studebaker people what the value of your Studebaker is can sometimes be a bad idea. I've been to several auctions with Studebakers where the die-hard SDC members all dropped out of the bidding thousands of dollars before someone who is hardly Studebaker affiliated picks up the car. (Maybe we can blame that on the Studebaker guys all having 15 project cars lined up already? :D)

Either way, it's sort of sad that "Studebaker people" ascribe such low values to their own brand. It's hard to imagine why, when one of the 300-some 1958 Corvettes can sell for over a million dollars, we can scoff at the thought of a one-of-nine Avanti doing the same or better. Corvettes are like cell phones - almost everybody has one. Avanti's (and even the Daytona in this thread) are special, unique, and worth some credit. I think the best thing the original poster can do is set a super high reserve and put the car on the auction block. That will help determine the value more than anything.

Of course, my $500 offer still stands. I'll even eat the towing cost, just to be a nice guy :cool:

SN-60
05-01-2012, 11:44 PM
Gee Dick ,Your really depressing everyone tonight! Some of these folks thought their cars had some real monetary value. Thanks for enlightening Us!!!

pdrnec
05-01-2012, 11:50 PM
That car could conceivably bring big $$ at Barrett-Jackson or the like - but to my knowledge (limited, I'll admit) they don't get many 'barn fresh' cars at auctions like that. The guy who gets the huge $$ will have done a frame-off restoration and the car will be better than new, not just buffed out and getting a new set of plugs and a carb rebuild. The fact that it could have been ordered with an R3 might excuse it not being a 'numbers matching' car.

I sold/gave away 16 Studebakers in the last year so I have a notion of the perceived value of the marque and it's not necessarily about rarity. IMO, it's about what a 50 - 60 year old guy thought was cool (and couldn't get) when he was 16. For most people, that wasn't a Studebaker.

SN-60
05-02-2012, 12:09 AM
To: pdrnec,----- I understand what Your saying, but I believe 'Studebaker People' have a fierce loyalty to the Marque that really impresses that 50-60 year old 'car' guy who never considered buying
a Studebaker until now. (And now, unlike when He was 16, He just may have the means) Studebakers are now 'cool'.

JimC
05-02-2012, 01:05 AM
To: pdrnec,----- I understand what Your saying, but I believe 'Studebaker People' have a fierce loyalty to the Marque that really impresses that 50-60 year old 'car' guy who never considered buying
a Studebaker until now. (And now, unlike when He was 16, He just may have the means) Studebakers are now 'cool'.I agree with this wholeheartedly. Some Stude owners may tend to lean towards the "cheap" end of the spectrum, but Studebaker Owners as a whole are among the most loyal out there!

I was going to post more, but I don't want to derail this thread too much more :D

Bob Andrews
05-02-2012, 05:40 AM
This is the what:


Of the 93, 28 sold...the remainder did not meet reserve or get an acceptable offer. In other words, 76% of the owners had an over inflated idea of the value of their Studebaker relative to the market.

And, this is the why:

IMO, it's about what a 50 - 60 year old guy thought was cool (and couldn't get) when he was 16. For most people, that wasn't a Studebaker.

We love our Studebakers, and that's how it should be. The enjoyment they give is worth a lot, and sometimes can even be called 'priceless'. That's also how it should be.

Where we run into problems is when, for whatever reason, we want/need to part with our Studebaker. Sadly, our emotions do not translate to value. When we enter the market to sell, we cannot "ascribe" the value, those who would buy do it. Just because we want them to be worth what we think they should be, simply does not make it so.

Being that actual value is based on what those with the money are willing to pay frequently does not line up with what we wish they were worth based on our love is a tough part of the hobby- particularly in the Studebaker world. We feel Studebakers are 'cool'. By and large, the vast majority of folks in the hobby overall do not agree.

As mentioned, the best way to determine the real value of this very desirable car is proper marketing on eBay. From there it's a simple matter of deciding whether to take what someone's actually willing to pay, or keep it. All the wishing in the world won't change that.

r1lark
05-02-2012, 06:09 AM
Andy has a son named Vince as well as a brother. I tried to buy a R3 conversion from Vince in 1965 , but he wanted to much money at the time. No regrets in not buying it though.

Bob Caser

That's why I like this forum, learn new things every day! I googled Vince (the son) and read some about him. Now I wonder, after all the references to "Vince" I've seen over the years, which ones were referring to Andy's brother and which ones were referring to Andy's son..................

Thanks for setting me straight, Bob!

Dick Steinkamp
05-02-2012, 09:09 AM
Gee Dick ,Your really depressing everyone tonight! Some of these folks thought their cars had some real monetary value. Thanks for enlightening Us!!!

It wasn't my intent to depress and I apologize, Ed, if it came across that way.

The "market" is what it is. We can't change it by "wishing" cars we want to buy to be less expensive than how the market has valued them or "wishing" cars we own or want to sell to be worth more than how the market has valued them.

I'd love to own a mid year Corvette, but never will. The market has valued them far beyond my means even though, IMHO, they shouldn't be worth that much.

I'll sell my Wagonaire at some point in time (I always do :)). It SHOULD be worth the $36,000 that this 63 Pontiac is going for...

1963 Pontiac Safari (http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/05/02/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1963-pontiac-bonneville-safari/?refer=news)

...but it won't be.


Buyers swear the market shouldn't support the prices the cars they want are selling for. Owners and sellers swear the market should be much higher than it seems to be. That's human nature. But it won't change the prices that cars are actually changing hands for.

SN-60
05-02-2012, 09:57 AM
To: Dick Steinkamp,---- Your vehicles are all 'Top Shelf'. Looks like the Wagonaire will be no exception. When You sell it, (if You do), it may garner more than You'd believe. And I hope it does. Take care

Dick Steinkamp
05-02-2012, 10:02 AM
When You sell it, (if You do), it may garner more than You'd believe. And I hope it does.

Me too! :)

drew72mgb
05-02-2012, 10:54 AM
Since it isn't "just" a B block but is the original engine from one of the 9 Avantis, I personally think that the engine should go back with that Avanti, and would have more value to the owner of that car than anyone else. But that's just me.

I agree with Matthew - but does THIS Avanti still exist? And, is the current owner in a position (financially) to buy this motor? (I see the post that this car exists - but the second question still stands - Does the owner have the CASH?)

If I won the lottery - this might become my next restoration / rehab project. But, since I do not play (regularly) that is only a dream.

The general public will not know the significance of the vehicle - and could be made to believe ANY story you wanted to tell them - hence, it could bring the big bucks bantered around on this forum. List it on an auction (ebay), with a reserve - high enough you feel comfortable with - and if it does not reach the reserve - but gets close enough - you could always do a "second chance offer" to that high bidder. The car MIGHT go, might not - and that will be the value of said car on that day....

Drew

Bob Caser
05-02-2012, 11:22 AM
That's why I like this forum, learn new things every day! I googled Vince (the son) and read some about him. Now I wonder, after all the references to "Vince" I've seen over the years, which ones were referring to Andy's brother and which ones were referring to Andy's son..................

Thanks for setting me straight, Bob!

The references during the Paxton heyday would have been to Andy;s brother Vince.
The forum should entertain and educate as well. I am a lurker here and do not belong to the SDC or Avanti owners,but I have in the past. Sometimes I cringe at comments made towards a subject or each other, but ego's and misinformation sometimes go hand in hand. They are other lurkers that have valuable information to add but will not contribute for what ever reason they choose.
This post established that this was in fact a 'built" car with rare options accumulated by by one of the ultimate Studebaker people. That is how a forum it is supposed to work.

Bob Caser

BobPalma
05-02-2012, 11:53 AM
I agree with Matthew - but does THIS Avanti still exist? And, is the current owner in a position (financially) to buy this motor? (I see the post that this car exists - but the second question still stands - Does the owner have the CASH?) Drew

The Avanti exists. The person who owns the Avanti has been aware of this convertible, its engine, and its current owner many years....long before this thread appeared.

In fact, while discussing this thread privately, the Avanti's owner told me he examined the convertible in person earlier this year, with an eye toward purchase. (I learned this after posting my speculation about the convertible's provenance and possible body number earlier in the topic.)

Obviously, the Avanti's owner and the convertible's owner could not come to an agreement on price...and the Avanti's owner is a sharp guy whom I would not consider a CASO! (<GGG>) BP

JimC
05-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Sometimes I cringe at comments made towards a subject or each other, but ego's and misinformation sometimes go hand in hand. They are other lurkers that have valuable information to add but will not contribute for what ever reason they choose.Eh, some of it has to taken with a grain of salt when reading. Some people (like me) have a hard time conveying emotion properly through text. I don't think I've ever posted anything here where I wasn't in a pleasant (or at least neutral) mood when I posted, but some of the replies I get make me thing that the other person assumed I was attacking them or intentionally trying to insult them. That's never been the case, of course, and I'll even admit that maybe I've misinterpreted their posts as well. Ultimately I'm just a guy slowly learning things about these cars that many here have known for years, and sometimes (most of the time?) I can land my foot in my mouth in the process. It's a gift.

The best thing people can do on a forum like this is assume that nobody is attacking you, and that it might just be a case of friendly ribbing in a place where it's hard to know what is and isn't lighthearted. Like you said though, this thread has been great! We've learned a lot about these really rare cars.

PackardV8
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
Agree completely, Jim.
Eh, some of it has to taken with a grain of salt when reading. Some people (like me) have a hard time conveying emotion properly through text. I don't think I've ever posted anything here where I wasn't in a pleasant (or at least neutral) mood when I posted, but some of the replies I get make me thing that the other person assumed I was attacking them or intentionally trying to insult them. That's never been the case, of course, and I'll even admit that maybe I've misinterpreted their posts as well. Ultimately I'm just a guy slowly learning things about these cars that many here have known for years, and sometimes (most of the time?) I can land my foot in my mouth in the process. It's a gift.

The best thing people can do on a forum like this is assume that nobody is attacking you, and that it might just be a case of friendly ribbing in a place where it's hard to know what is and isn't lighthearted. Like you said though, this thread has been great! We've learned a lot about these really rare cars.

Getting way, way OT here, but I'm reminded of an interview with one of the newspaper syndicated advice columnists. In the interview, the woman admitted at least half of her "advice" was written in a manner calculated to stir comment. "I don't want readers to just nod in agreement. I want at least half of them to disagree and discuss it around the water cooler, 'Whatever was Dear Abby thinking when she said . . . .?' It's my job to stir up my readers."

In the zen manner of reading beyond the words, it appears a few of our members share her methodology. Some posts are seemingly just to stir the pot, to see what boils up. Your opinions may vary.


are the 93 Studebakers that completed their eBay listing in April...

eBay Studebakers Completed Listings

Of the 93, 28 sold...the remainder did not meet reserve or get an acceptable offer. In other words, 76% of the owners had an over inflated idea of the value of their Studebaker relative to the market.

Again, agree completely, Dick. When a car, house, whatever is listed with a reserve and the would-be seller says, "I have to get $XX,XXX for it." The market will sometimes tell him, "No, but you can keep it if it is worth that much to you."

In magazines such as the Classic Car. Sports and Exotic Car, they do monthly auction listings. Often, a car is bought and subsequently sold three months later or a year later for less than the buying price. Other times, a seller runs it through one auction, turns down, say $250k. At the next auction, he ends up letting it go for $175k. The Old Car Price Guide is only a very rough average; a starting point for discussion. The market will tell us all what our Studebakers are worth in that place on that day.

It's also about investing in the effort. One of our older southeastern members had three decent Hawk/Avanti he wanted to sell. For whatever reason, he wouldn't clean them up, wouldn't do any photos, wouldn't advertise nationally, wouldn't write detailed descriptions. His final bitter comments, "Studebakers aren't worth anything. I ended up basically GIVING them away." A professional presentation, such as JDP/Sal used to do would probably have doubled the selling prices. His cars, his money, his decision.

jack vines

Bob Andrews
05-02-2012, 01:19 PM
The "market" is what it is. We can't change it by "wishing" cars we want to buy to be less expensive than how the market has valued them or "wishing" cars we own or want to sell to be worth more than how the market has valued them.

Buyers swear the market shouldn't support the prices the cars they want are selling for. Owners and sellers swear the market should be much higher than it seems to be. That's human nature. But it won't change the prices that cars are actually changing hands for.

This is exactly what I was trying to say above. Dick just did a much better job of it.

BobPalma
05-02-2012, 01:47 PM
'Looking at a Chevette to buy once, for resale, years ago. 'Offered the guy $500.

He said, "No way, that's what the last guy offered!"

I said, "Well, it looks like we've established what it's worth; now, do you want to sell it?"

And he sold it to me! <GGG> BP

SN-60
05-02-2012, 02:19 PM
To: tazman1615,---- Your '64 Daytona is a valuable automobile. It is not factory built, but the pieces used building it are some of the rarest and most desired items around. I have to assume the vehicle
is solid, because I don't think anyone would use these items in a rusted out vehicle (although that's possible). I would advise You not to be discouraged, and be optimistic about the potential value of this
really remarkable Studebaker. This is My final comment on this subject, and good luck with the sale!

wcarroll@outrageous.net
05-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Not to stir the pot, but one thing to keep in mind about the "market" and Ebay is the current trend of using Ebay for advertising, which seems to have really become popular after they changed their Ebay Motors fee to a minimal listing fee with a flat if it sells fee.

IMO, this has encouraged people to hang high prices on their cars hoping to get a buyer to bite. Of the 65 Studebakers that were listed that did not sell (as Dick pointed out), it would be interesting to know how many were sold off Ebay as a result of Ebay listing exposure and what their actual selling price ended up being.

I ask this question because the last two cars I sold on Ebay, I sold for the price I wanted after the auctions expired to buyers who saw the cars listed on Ebay.

If this were my car, I would list it as is on Ebay and see what kind of interest the listing generates.

289stude
05-04-2012, 11:59 AM
Any body know how to contact the owner? Ive sent a couple of PM and havnt heard anything back.

StudeMichael
05-04-2012, 01:26 PM
I would bet money that there is no serious intention on the owners part to sell this car.

289stude
05-04-2012, 02:24 PM
Hey micheal just got home last night with the Avanti. Love it. It's got a few things that need tweaked ie small radiator leak rubber washer on PS pump lid leaks the steering cylindr rubs one of the belts when it's in the straight position (not good). Along with a few other minor things but that's part of the hobby right.

studefan
05-05-2012, 07:31 AM
Tazman1615, please check your private messages in the upper left portion of the screen. Thanks

StudeMichael
05-05-2012, 04:57 PM
Hello John, glad to hear the Avanti is home safe and sound!!

8E45E
04-02-2015, 10:26 PM
Since it isn't "just" a B block but is the original engine from one of the 9 Avantis, I personally think that the engine should go back with that Avanti, and would have more value to the owner of that car than anyone else. But that's just me.

Matt,

It may be "old news", and you probably already know this, the August, 2013 TW on page 27 mentions Nels now has both Avanti R5593 and this R3 engine.

Craig

lark63
04-02-2015, 10:39 PM
that is what was looking for ,thanks

MARC212
04-02-2015, 10:41 PM
Sounds and looks like a great car. Put my name on the list when you are ready to sell it, or let me know when it is going on E-bay.

Marc

Stu Chapman
04-03-2015, 09:14 AM
Are we talking about serial number C503886? I have this car listed on the Registry as being currently owned by Gary Wood of Albany OH, and shown as formerly being Ed Reynolds car. It's also tagged as being one of the cars for which the original build order is missing.

Stu Chapman

rkapteyn
04-03-2015, 11:34 AM
Yes
Roy Hecker told me that the engine came from one of the 9 original R3 Avantis.
I had the short block R3 out of my former original R3 Avanti (2089)rebuilt by Automachine in St.Charles Illinois.
They are experts in R3 engines having worked on several including Ron Hall's record breaking Avanti.

Robert Kapteyn

lugamatic
04-03-2015, 01:00 PM
Pm sent please check messages

Bob Andrews
04-03-2015, 02:05 PM
Another three-year-old thread resurrected.

8E45E
04-03-2015, 04:23 PM
Another three-year-old thread resurrected.

And for good reason! A poster yesterday (April 2) inquired about the TW article and this thread regarding the subject car. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?87633-looking-for-TW-article

The thread was never updated since the TW article was printed a year later and because a change of events took place, it would be in most everyone's best interest to update the thread accordingly.

Craig

bob40
04-03-2015, 05:46 PM
I know I appreciated the update.Thanks!

Quentin
04-04-2015, 04:20 AM
$50,000? What's the highest price any Studebaker has ever brought? Anybody know?

?.

I saw an edition of "Whats your/my car worth" recently - a red 63 Hawk that was appraised as condition 2 went for 25,000; a 63 Hawk in VGC was sold here in Oz at Shannons Auction for $42,000 (guiding range 16-20k). I was a phone bidder that night, and pulled out at 20,000. When I was astonished by the price it eventually sold for, the guy on the phone said that the 2 bidders in the room had got "bidding fever", and "there was no way the car was worth that much, but the fever happens sometimes" So it's all a bit subjective, I guess.
That engine as the genuine article very rare R3 must be worth big bucks........

Bob Andrews
04-04-2015, 07:12 AM
Nothing really wrong with bringing in a three-year-old thread forward. I just mentioned it because people tend not to see that and respond as if it's a current thread.

SN-60
04-04-2015, 09:16 AM
I saw an edition of "Whats your/my car worth" recently - a red 63 Hawk that was appraised as condition 2 went for 25,000; a 63 Hawk in VGC was sold here in Oz at Shannons Auction for $42,000 (guiding range 16-20k). I was a phone bidder that night, and pulled out at 20,000. When I was astonished by the price it eventually sold for, the guy on the phone said that the 2 bidders in the room had got "bidding fever", and "there was no way the car was worth that much, but the fever happens sometimes" So it's all a bit subjective, I guess.
That engine as the genuine article very rare R3 must be worth big bucks........

Certain '31-'33 Presidents have traded for well over 100 thousand dollars.