58 Packard Hawk questions

[Kdancy]

Starting to do work on the 58 Packard Hawk that my friend purchased and he has decided to do more to the car than originally thought. He wants me to paint it red. I was looking for colors and found this PH in Hemmings. Is this the only red they made that year? I was thinking that there was a Maroon red as well.
In looking at the engine compartment of the Hemmings car, looks like they put a remote oil filter in. Ist the SC tension spring supposed to be the same color as the SC?

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/packard/hawk/1183460.html

We have the engine and tranny out and will pull the heads and just do a general check and do over of anything needing attention. Have sent the SC off for complete rebuild and will pull the hydrovac off for send off as well. (who do you guys recommend).
Have a Turner dual MC kit that I will change out to and will put in new brake and gas lines. Bought a carb kit from Daytona Parts company and will rebuild the carb while off. Probably pull the gas tank and clean and coat it.
Will start pulling the chrome and stainless trim off today for polishing and re-plating.

[BobPalma]

Kerry: They had two "reds" in 1958.

The Hemmings car is most likely Parade Red, which you would describe as a traditional "Fire-Engine" red.

The other, maroonish-purplish color was Shadowtone Red.

See my discussion in Post #4 to this earlier thread:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?57341-Eye-Candy-12-15-11-58-Packard-hardtop-(and-Commander-4dr)&highlight=shadowtone

Yes, they've put a remote, spin-on oil filter in the Hemmings car.

The supercharger belt tensioner would not be orange, but the supercharger wouldn't be orange; it would be black. BP

[jclary]

Starting to do work on the 58 Packard Hawk that my friend purchased and he has decided to do more to the car than originally thought....

You can't be serious! .....Who among us has ever encountered this situation????

Are you folks planning a dead-nuts stock restoration, or do you want to make it close but upgrade for drivability?

As rare as these birds are...I think that only the most anal in the crowd would be familiar enough with the minute details to care.

Good luck with the project!

[Kdancy]

John, Ain't that the truth!!
it won't be a dead nuts restoration as we are not doing a frame off.
Here are the three reds we've found and are considering,
Mazda color (volcanic red)
Parade Red Studebaker color
Shadowtone Red (I think)

The Mazda one is very nice!
??

[hausdok]

Hi Kerry,

As others have said, the two "red" colors available that year were the Parade Red, which we all see as a traditional red, and the Shadowtown Red Metallic shown on the '58 Packard hardtop in the right hand photo of the examples you posted above. If your friend is interested in "correctness", I don't think that the almost purple, plum-color shown on the Studebaker in that other thread is a correct color for Packard that year. It might have been for Studes that year.

Most of us would term the Shadowtone Red Metallic as being more of a maroon than a red. I've mostly seen the shadowtone red used as an accent color on the roof but I do have one or two photos of at least one car here somewhere which had been painted all that color. I can forward them to you if you'd like me to so that your friend can see what the car looks like when it's all that same color.

According to the Packard Club paint page for 1958, which you can find at the link below, Shadowtone Red Metallic is Dupont-Duco paint #1069-BCS; however, according to a note on the chart, there isn't any match available for the stock order number or mixing formula number for that color.

Here's the link to the Packard Club 1958 Color guide in their archive: http://www.packardclub.org/html/1958paint.htm

If your friend might be interested in something that's close to the Shadowtone Red Metallic but is slightly off, have him check out the Garnet Red used on the 1969 Camaro. If he googles it he'll find lots of photos of cars painted in that color.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

P.S.

I probably resemble John's remark

[hausdok]

Oh,

Forgot about the other color questions. My P.H. was owned by one guy. He was a tractor mechanic and it was his daily driver until he died. Polishing the car and dinking around with painting things were not exactly his forte; in fact the paint was completely worn off the top of the front fenders from the thousands of times he'd bent into the engine compartment and rubbed his belt across the top of the fender without fender covers. The rust there was rubbed to a hard shiny brown like you'd see on an antique flintlock that had been intentionally browned (but I digress). My block, intake manifold and pan is, as far as I can tell, painted silver. the valve covers are black, the air cleaner is black, the supercharger is black, and the generator and brack booster are painted black. I think I've seen the brake booster painted silver or bead blasted and left clear on other cars; but if my car is any example it was black. If you'd like, I can send you an email with copies of every engine compartment photo for a P.H. that I have. I've got a bunch of 'em from both non-restored and restored P.H.s. Eastwood has some ceramic paints that would be just the ticket.

Hope this helps.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[hausdok]

OK,

According to the Packard Club engine color page located here: http://www.packardclub.org/html/engine-colors.htm the engine colors are "1958 All Engines - Silver (block and pan) with black valve covers except the Packard Hawk that had the same gold "Packard Super 289" stickers as all the '57's. "

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[Dwain G.]

If you are changing to a dual master cylinder, you won't really be able to use the Hydravac since it only has a single outlet. Some that have done this powered just the front brakes. With the front disc conversion most owners say they don't even need a booster. The only problem is the power brake pedal is designed for about a 4 to 1 ratio, while non-power cars have a 7 to 1 ratio.

[Kdancy]

If you are changing to a dual master cylinder, you won't really be able to use the Hydravac since it only has a single outlet. Some that have done this powered just the front brakes. With the front disc conversion most owners say they don't even need a booster. The only problem is the power brake pedal is designed for about a 4 to 1 ratio, while non-power cars have a 7 to 1 ratio.

I've done a 57 GH conversion using the Turner disc brake system and to be honest, I liked the original hydravac set up better. I also changed the pedal to a non power one. I will try the dual MC conversion and just run the hydravac to the front as some others have done.

[Kdancy]

OK,

According to the Packard Club engine color page located here: http://www.packardclub.org/html/engine-colors.htm the engine colors are "1958 All Engines - Silver (block and pan) with black valve covers except the Packard Hawk that had the same gold "Packard Super 289" stickers as all the '57's. "

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

Mike, thanks for all the info. Everything helps. One question I have is what color is the front grill mesh supposed to be, I can't really see the color in any pictures I've looked at. This one is painted black but It looks to have been painted gold at one time.

[Dwain G.]

I've done a 57 GH conversion using the Turner disc brake system and to be honest, I liked the original hydravac set up better. I also changed the pedal to a non power one. I will try the dual MC conversion and just run the hydravac to the front as some others have done.

I regret not adding in my first post that I don't advise or endorse plumbing the brake lines that way even though some have done it.

[hausdok]

Hi Kerry,

The one on my PH is,...well, what's left of the paint on it, is flat black. Have you climbed into the trunk and looked up under those fins yet and tapped on the underside of those rear fenders beneath the fins to see whether that steel is viable yet?

The fins are screwed in and then the front is leaded in. I found a ton of heavy surface rust and some rot holes under mine.

I was ponding this whole hydrovac single circuit thing today and wondered why one couldn't simply mount a dual circuit master cylinder sideways up under the dash in a custom-made bracket and mate it to a hydraulic slave cylinder like one used for hydraulic clutches secured into the opposite end of the bracket.

Push on the brake pedal and the hydrovac activates the slave cylinder and the push-rod on the slave cylinder sends a pushrod into that dual MC and activates the brakes. You could redo the brake lines so that from under the hood, and when you glance underneath the car, they all look original; however, you route the lines up through the floor and beneath the carpet under a sheetmetal chase that protects them and then you join them to a proportioning valve below that dual MC beneath the dash.

Do it right and you could keep the original brakes all around, keep the hydrovac, even keep the original master bolted to the side of the frame under the car. It would look absolutely stock but probably have better braking performance because you'd be able to adjust the PV to balance the brakes front and rear better. Back when I was working on Toyotas in the 70's Toyota used to use some small slave cylinders to activate the clutches on Toy Land Cruisers that would probably be just about a perfect size for this Rube Goldberg idea.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[Mike]

At the risk of resembling John's remark...
You do realize that someone has put a four barrel carb on this car; don't you? That's why the oil filter is relocated to the fender. The original setup would have been a two barrel in an aluminum carb enclosure, with the oil filter bolted to the rear of the enclosure, in front of the distributor. There's a good drawing of all the supercharger parts in the '55 -'58 chassis parts catalog. Hood, front fenders, and dash parts for the Packard Hawk are in there, too.
The four barrel has the label riveted to the air horn that says it's a special sealed carb; but the fuel inlet has been relocated. If it was a real R2 carb that's too bad. The carb "hat" looks like it's from a Lark or Hawk R2.
By the way, there was a Packard version of the badge on the supercharger. I think SI has a reproduction. That looks like their Stude reproduction on it now.
The domed nuts on the supercharger look out of place. They were used on the valve covers only, I think.
There's a strange remark about the air filter, at the Vintage Motor Cars Site. They say it's been converted to a modern paper element, but can be changed back. It was always a paper element. That might not be the right one.
Mike M.

[hausdok]

Yeah,

There's a 4 barrel on the red car at the link above; but the car that Kerry is working on has the original 2 barrel.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[Mike]

Thanks for pointing that out, Mike. Now I get it. The "Hemmings Car", with pictures at the link, isn't the car he is working on. I wondered why no one else pointed out the four barrel!
Mike M.