PDA

View Full Version : '63 Super Lark???



Jeb
01-08-2012, 04:32 AM
Has anyone with knowledge looked at this car? From what I've picked up on the forum there were no '63 Super Larks, only '64s.

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/2778109038.html

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 06:02 AM
Looks legit. You can distinctly read 33A: Jet Thrust Engine w/ Supercharger on the Build Order within the ad.

I can't read enough of the other material to ascertain if it is a full-package Super Lark. If someone can enlarge that P.O. and get the Serial Number, we can find out. 'Looks like a five-digit number after 63V, so it could be a full-package car.

Yes, there were many full-package 1963 Super Larks built; 88, to be specific (plus 57 Super Hawks). Many others had an R1 or R2 engine but were not full-package Super Larks or Super Hawks. BP

studegary
01-08-2012, 12:59 PM
He states: "NO LOW BALLERS", but you don't even know where he is starting from on a price, so how would you know if an offer is low or maybe even high?

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 01:16 PM
OK, I've had some time to research this car from what can be made out on the Production Order posted. I can't make out the Serial Number for sure, but it is five digits after 63V.

What can be made out are these items:

1. The color is (was) Rose Mist.

2. It has (or had) Chestnut Vinyl Interior.

3. It has an R2 engine.

4. It has heavy-duty, column-shift Flightomatic.

So the question becomes: How many 1963 Lark Daytona Convertibles did Studebaker build in that configuration?

And the answer is: ONE. That car's Serial Number has to be 63V10598, the only 1963 Lark so configured.

That number is too low to be a full-package car, and the production records confirm it is not.

So it is a legitimate factory R2 1963 Lark Daytona Convertible and it is not one of the 88 1963 Super Larks built (all body styles; not just convertibles).

This should answer the question. BP

studebaker-R2-4-me
01-08-2012, 01:27 PM
Looks legit. You can distinctly read 33A: Jet Thrust Engine w/ Supercharger on the Build Order within the ad.

I can't read enough of the other material to ascertain if it is a full-package Super Lark. If someone can enlarge that P.O. and get the Serial Number, we can find out. 'Looks like a five-digit number after 63V, so it could be a full-package car.

Yes, there were many full-package 1963 Super Larks built; 88, to be specific (plus 57 Super Hawks). Many others had an R1 or R2 engine but were not full-package Super Larks or Super Hawks. BP

Bob, I tried adding and subtraction contrast and then brightness, the best I could do was 63V 10769 JTS 1298

See if that comes up with anything.

Allen

martincl
01-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Bob,
I've just done the same and I agree. You will also note the location matches the JT list.

Samjoe
01-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but if a car was produced like this at the factory. And is confirmed by the build sheet.It has all the goodies that any self respecting R car should have. Even if the serial number is low. What is it missing,
besides the front bumper? The powered by Avanti emblems? Or is it the floor mounted shifter with the regular HD flightomatic.

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Bob, I tried adding and subtraction contrast and then brightness, the best I could do was 63V 10769 JTS 1298

See if that comes up with anything.

Allen

Thanks, Allen. You see the answer in the post right above yours. You were probably working on your "enhancement" while I was posting that.

The actual engine number is JTS1279. (As fuzzy as it is, I'm surprised you got as close as you did! I sure couldn't get that close.)

Cheers and thanks. Bob

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 02:34 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but if a car was produced like this at the factory. And is confirmed by the build sheet.It has all the goodies that any self respecting R car should have. Even if the serial number is low. What is it missing,
besides the front bumper? The powered by Avanti emblems? Or is it the floor mounted shifter with the regular HD flightomatic.

Sam, a Full Package (hence, Super Lark, as defined by Studebaker, not me) would have Twin Traction, Heavy-Duty Springs, and Heavy-Duty Shock Absorbers. Also, as you say, it would have a floor-shift Powershift transmission (if it was an automatic), which is a different transmission than a heavy-duty, water-cooled, column-shift Flightomatic, in addition to being floor-shift. The subject car has "none of the above," per the records I have.

There may be other ways this car differs from a full-package Super Lark, but that is all I can report from what I have in front of me, and from not being able to read that Production Order posted in the Craigslist link.

If someone is able to pull up that Craigslist P.O. so it is more readable, I may be able to further answer your question. BP

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Bob,
I've just done the same and I agree. You will also note the location matches the JT list.

Good, Leon; thanks. BP

289stude
01-08-2012, 04:03 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/289stude/bacc1af1.jpg

Owner emailed me clear pics price is $39,000.00 poss trades.

Does this car have electric windows? Or does elec wind mean something else never heard of a lark with electric windows.

Jeb
01-08-2012, 04:14 PM
Thanks guys,
I'm always amazed by the amount of info you guys have. Bob, thanks for the lesson on the super larks. I think the car looks great but out of my price range. Is the car as rare as he claims?

John

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 04:27 PM
Thanks guys,
I'm always amazed by the amount of info you guys have. Bob, thanks for the lesson on the super larks. I think the car looks great but out of my price range. Is the car as rare as he claims? John

Oh, I'd say it is quite rare, John.

Few R-powered cars were originally Rose Mist, and the number with an R engine and heavy-duty, column-shift Flightomatic I am sure is quite small. (I could find out exactly, but don't have the time right now to go through all the records again!)

And, of course, it is a convertible.

I mean, how much rarer can you get than one of one! BP

studebakersteve
01-08-2012, 04:32 PM
I know this car pretty well,as I was the one who told him it was a legitimate R-2 car.It has been for sale for years and I have tried to buy it from him several times,he would never give me a price.Here's what I know about it:Was repainted years ago the wrong color,the interior was dyed black at he same time.The original engine was blown up and replaced with reg 289,supercharger cradle and water manifold are from a Golden Hawk,transmission was switched to a power shift on the floor,incorrect radiator,ford 9" rear end from a Lincoln Versaille.It's not a bad car,just a little incorrect,I would classify it as good driver.Hope this helps somebody.If anybody is serious about it I would be happy to look at it again and give you detailed description of it.I'm no longer interested in it.
Steve

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 04:41 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/289stude/bacc1af1.jpg

Owner emailed me clear pics price is $39,000.00 poss trades.

Does this car have electric windows? Or does elec wind mean something else never heard of a lark with electric windows.

No, that always confuses people, John. It means electric windshield washers.

'Good to see this document up close. It does confirm:

1. The Serial Number and Engine Number we had determined earlier by elimination.

2. The colors and upholstery we had determined earlier.

3. The Build Date of October 25, 1962. Definitely an early '63 model year car, months before the Super Package was put together.

4. The confusion they were having specifying some of these early R-powered cars. The notation 4bbl carb is superflous and means nothing on this P.O., as does Wet Air Cleaner occasionally seen on R1-powered cars.

5. Also confusing here is the notation for both Bucket Seats and Reclining Seat / Split Cushion. You could get reclining bucket seats or reclining seat / split cushion, but not on the same car! Since this car has a column-shift transmission, it could have been equipped with either one! Only inspecting the car as shipped would confirm one or the other.

6. Finally, the destination of Los Angeles and Tag: W.H. Kough. I dont know a W.H.Kough, but it sounds like maybe somebody important in the L.A. Zone Office...or his cute, teen-age daughter blew in Daddy's ear for such a Kool Kar! (BTDT)

Interesting from many angles. I'm glad this came up. I really like Chestnut interior against Rose Mist. 'Kind of wish it was still so configured. BP

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 04:45 PM
I know this car pretty well, as I was the one who told him it was a legitimate R-2 car.

It has been for sale for years and I have tried to buy it from him several times, he would never give me a price.

Here's what I know about it: Was repainted years ago the wrong color, the interior was dyed black at the same time.The original engine was blown up and replaced with reg 289, supercharger cradle and water manifold are from a Golden Hawk, transmission was switched to a Powershift on the floor, incorrect radiator, Ford 9" rear end from a Lincoln Versaille.

It's not a bad car, just a little incorrect. I would classify it as good driver.

'Hope this helps somebody. If anybody is serious about it I would be happy to look at it again and give you detailed description of it. I'm no longer interested in it. Steve

Thanks for the current status and "rest of the story," Steve; much appreciated. BP

Jeb
01-08-2012, 05:09 PM
Wow, I found out more with one post than I would know if I looked at the car myself. Thanks Bob and Steve. I wish that lotto ticket would paid off. I also wish I had participated in this forum a lot longer before I purchased my first cars. I overpaid for the first one and got a fair deal on the other. We'll find out how much I overpaid when the Northwest chapter guys get to look at it. Do you guys, with all you know about Studes, ever make poor purchasing decisions? My wife is still waiting for her car and with the help I receive here I should do much better this time.

John

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Wow, I found out more with one post than I would know if I looked at the car myself. Thanks Bob and Steve. I wish that lotto ticket would paid off. I also wish I had participated in this forum a lot longer before I purchased my first cars. I overpaid for the first one and got a fair deal on the other. We'll find out how much I overpaid when the Northwest chapter guys get to look at it. Do you guys, with all you know about Studes, ever make poor purchasing decisions? My wife is still waiting for her car and with the help I receive here I should do much better this time.

John


'Glad to help, John. What car is your wife waiting for?

We've all made bad purchasing decisions. I've bought cars for a living most of my life; I'll be 66 next month. For 25 years, I was the primary buyer for a collector-car dealership in Rockford IL: Unique Motorcars Ltd. It was dissolved when the owner (still a good friend) retired some years ago. So, I've personally bought on the order of 5,000 vehicles of all description in my lifetime. Not too many mistakes, but a few.

It's one thing, now, to document how a car was built, such as we've done with this convertible. But, today, almost 50 years out, condition and the car's life to date are so much more important. Note that, per Steve's report, this car now bears little resemblance to how it looked when it was loaded on a rail car to start its journey to California, and we don't know the structural condition until a current, on-site inspection is conducted.

Owners will sometimes provide accurate photos of a car if you request specific ones, but there is no substitute for an on-site inspection by someone you trust...preferably yourself, in that no two people look at a car the same way. BP

studebakersteve
01-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Oh Yes I have errored before!All the cars I had bought that I never saw in person all had issues.The only way to alleviate this is to see them in person.I have also been guilty of paying too much for a car that I knew wasn't worth the price,even after I inspected it,but I just had to have it!Recently A man in California wanted to buy my 58 Golden Hawk but wanted someone to inspect for him.I had Will Sander do it and inspect as if he was judging at the Studebaker Internationals.He didn't buy it but at least I know I was honest in presenting it to him.
Steve

Jeb
01-09-2012, 03:57 AM
I'll bet you guys have seen some beautiful rides. Steve, glad to know I'm not the only one who's overpaid. I still love the car and intend to drive the hell out of it. Bob, I totally get your condition and life to date comments. My wife wants a hawk or a station wagon as long as it's an automatic. I'm not sure which models. I think she needs to see more cars before she decides. We thought about driving the Champion home from Portland by way of South Bend to experience the international meet and see lots of Studes before we buy my wife’s car. I don't know if the car can make a 6000 mile trip. I'll know more after my brother takes it to the northwest chapter guys and they get a good look at it. Maybe we'll be flying down instead. Sorry it takes so long to answer posts but out here it's dial up only, a whopping 26.4 kbps.