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studebaker-R2-4-me
01-08-2012, 01:07 AM
I'm looking for a 4.11:1 Gear Set (Ring and Pinion) Twin Trac for my next assault at the Pure Stocks. I have the carrier with 4.55:1 gears that I ran last September, so just the ring gear and pinion, to get down the track a little quicker with a higher speed. I really want to try the higher set to see if that works a little better for me.

West coast guys would workout for me as well since I will be in Arizona in March for spring break.

Any help would be appreciated.

Allen

PackardV8
01-08-2012, 01:12 AM
Two thoughts for you:

Studebaker called it a 4.09 gear set

Don't limit your search to Studes. That Dana 44 gearset was used in Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Jeep and IH pickups as well. Some of them will have a limited slip also.

jack vines

00RACER
01-08-2012, 08:17 AM
I would not make that change. Racing is about ET, not MPH. With the 4.56 you will be quicker, which is what you want for an ET. With the 4.11 you will not be as quick, but you will have more MPH.
Remember, a good ET is in the first 60 ft. , not in MPH
PAUL LAUSCH

dean pearson
01-08-2012, 10:12 AM
To confirm what OORACER said just look at our latest Turning heels,
The fastest car did not allways win.
Being a newbie this confused me for a moment but after reading some of Mr. Harbits comments I came to understand
how important the first 60' is.

Very cool stuff.

Dean.

00RACER
01-08-2012, 11:04 AM
Yes, the whole race is usually won in the first 60 ft. To give you round numbers, if you normally run 11.00 at 125.00 mph, and you make a run at 11.00 and 126.50 mph, that tells you you did not hook up on the line.
PAUL

PackardV8
01-08-2012, 11:36 AM
To further confuse the issue, the choice isn't just between the sometimes-too-low 4.56 and the maybe-too-high 4.09. IIRC, there are 4.27 gearsets available.

jack vines

studebaker-R2-4-me
01-08-2012, 12:46 PM
Two thoughts for you:

Studebaker called it a 4.09 gear set

jack vines

My Bad, Looks like my brain was not firing on all cylinders at 2 AM

I think the 4.55:1 (oops 4.56:1) is too low for the weight of the Hawk since it totally runs out at the end of the track. Another suggestion at the Pure Stocks last September was to go to a slightly taller tire. At this point I am just thinking out loud to get a slightly better time and still thinking about the best way of doing it. I'm open to any options.

Allen

PackardV8
01-08-2012, 01:22 PM
I think the 4.55:1 (oops 4.56:1) is too low for the weight of the Hawk since it totally runs out at the end of the track. What RPM are you turning at the finish line?

Better valve springs are the best investment one can make in a Pure Stock engine. Every stock R1/R2 Stude V8 I've ever checked would require thick shims to get the springs to the max allowable 75# seat pressure. There have been times I've used a -.050" valve keeper to up the spring pressure enough to pull to max RPMs.

studebaker-R2-4-me
01-09-2012, 10:25 PM
What RPM are you turning at the finish line?

Better valve springs are the best investment one can make in a Pure Stock engine. Every stock R1/R2 Stude V8 I've ever checked would require thick shims to get the springs to the max allowable 75# seat pressure. There have been times I've used a -.050" valve keeper to up the spring pressure enough to pull to max RPMs.

Jack, take a look at the video that Bob Palma posted last week from the Pure Stocks. http://blip.tv/rumble-vid/2011-pure-stock-drags-round-three-5816151

I'm at about 2:18 into the video. You can clearly see I am running out of gear near the end of that race. As for valve springs - I am building a new set of heads for my Hawk starting this week with the HD Springs and will keep my eye posted on the 75# seat pressure and will shim if necessary. I was at my machinist's shop today installing 2 mercury vapor lights and repairing his typhoon engine block washer that was not heating up, so he owes me some labour and machining on my heads.

I made a significant investment in the 4.56 differential last year and may just stick with it for this upcoming September race and go with a taller tire instead along with a smaller supercharger pulley that was available in 1964. These two changes alone may get me into a better position but I am open to the higher ratio than the 4.56:1. I do like the sound of a 4.27 ring and pinion. One other thing I am going to go with is a new tachometer and I am still considering which one to buy.

Check out that video and let me know what you think.


Allen

PackardV8
01-10-2012, 10:22 AM
FWIW, to control the heavier R3 valves, you'll need something strongier than the R2 75# springs. The R3 springs were dual springs - 90# outer and 35# inner. Today, I use a single beehive spring.

I don't claim to know anything about the Pure Stock rules, but are oversize valves and porting allowed? To get the most benefit from the R3 valves, extensive head porting is necessary.

jack vines

41 Frank
01-10-2012, 10:31 AM
Also if you are contemplating upping the tire size the rules state all 4 tires must be the same size.

2R5
01-10-2012, 02:46 PM
I think the gearing is OK ....you need to change the driver <g>

starliner62
01-10-2012, 02:55 PM
Jack,
Which beehive springs are you using? Are you using shorter Chevy valves? I'm getting ready to start on the heads for my roller engine and heard that you used Chevy valves and shortened the rocker shaft stands. Am I correct or just crazy??

sweetolbob
01-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Also if you are contemplating upping the tire size the rules state all 4 tires must be the same size.

Allen

Just so you don't run into trouble at the PSMCDR's here is a copy of their tire rules.

ires and Wheels: Reproduction tires or radial tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Use of traction compounds or rubber-softening chemicals on tires is strictly prohibited. Suspicious tires will be durometered. You are allowed to run tires one size over stock, with G70s being the largest size allowed for cars with 70-series tires, and G60s the largest allowed for cars that came with 60-series tires. All four tires must be the same size. No 60-series tires will be allowed unless they were originally available for the car's year and model. 60-series tires must be run on 15-inch rims as they were originally. Cars built before the introduction of 70-series Polyglas or Wide Ovals are allowed to upgrade to 70-series of appropriate size. Factory wheels only. Wheels must be correct in size, offset, and style for the car's make, model, and year. All four wheels must be the same size and offset.

Excessively worn or bald tires are strictly prohibited! TIRES CANNOT BE WORN DOWN TO THE TREAD WEAR BAR INDICATORS.

Bob

studebaker-R2-4-me
01-10-2012, 03:51 PM
I think the gearing is OK ....you need to change the driver <g>

Your too funny Bob! why do you think I did not post race one where the Hawk was too cold and burped at the start line...FYI once again (I sure wish you would believe me), I was NOT TEXTING CAROLINE at the start line! <g>

Thanks for posting the rules guys, I will keep them in mind.

Allen

DieselJim
01-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Might have a set of 4:27's in Arizona. Will check tomorrow. Jim

2R5
01-10-2012, 08:53 PM
Hey Al , just pulling your chain <g>

DieselJim
01-11-2012, 06:00 PM
The rear gears I have are not 4:27. Jim

candbstudebakers
01-12-2012, 12:55 AM
Allen, I have a full 44 rear end open with 427 gears..

WCP
01-12-2012, 12:10 PM
If you are talking open rear ends, I have a 4.09 44 from an Avanti, already painted, but may need seals. It's been on the shelf for so long, I can't remember. PM me if you are interested. I'm just up the road in Kingston.