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geojerry
01-07-2012, 08:28 PM
My drum non-powered brakes died. The pedal goes to the floor. Tried to get to the rubber cap under the rug on the drivers side to check for fluid. Whoever did the new interior on this car went and fastened the carpet with no way to get to the underside rubber plug. It's all hard fastened to the floor. Cannot raise the car in my driveway to get to Master Cylinder. Will not cut a hole in the rug. Anyone else have a better idea to check the fluid level before I tow to my local garage and let him do it on a lift. Also, how bad is it to convert to a dual master cylinder in the engine compart instead of under the floorboard ? Thx for any help.

BobPalma
01-07-2012, 08:34 PM
Sooner or later, you'll have to pull up the step plate and roll the carpet aside to get to the master cylinder inspection hole so you can check the fluid. It really can't be done effectively from under the car; it was never intended to be serviced that way.

Make a provision to check the fluid through the carpet and buy a Turner Brakes dual-piston master cylinder conversion kit that will reside where your original master cylinder resides.

The under-hood idea sounds great and has been done, but it's a lot of unneccesary work, really. BP

silverhawk
01-07-2012, 08:52 PM
You also may be able to mount a remote master cylinder reservoir on the firewall. I've seen it done on some of the local hot rods, very nice set up; I'd like to do it to my '52 eventually.

jclary
01-07-2012, 09:29 PM
Let's take a brief moment to examine this reluctance to "cut a hole in the carpet." You are not the only one who has brought this subject up. Some have posted with the fact that floor panels had been installed without an access hole and cover made for the master cylinder. All of my Studebakers have had floor mats placed to protect the carpet. So, what's the big deal about making a neat incision in the carpet for access to the master cylinder? I once had a '62 GT with an OEM carpet in place. Right over the master cylinder was a hole in the carpet and removable cover for access to the master cylinder. Unless you picked up the rubber floor mat...you never saw it.

Before I would limit my ability to check my brake fluid and take a chance on wrecking my prized car, endanger my life and others...I would rip all the #$%*$&%$ carpet out of all my Studes and burn it. Use a razor cutter, make a neat cut, and get some good floor mats. The peace of mind is worth more than all the expensive carpet you could cram into the car.

whacker
01-07-2012, 09:33 PM
It is possible to jack up one side of the car and remove the master cylinder cap from underneath. You can then check the level with your finger. To add fluid, use a big horse syringe and fill to the top. I don't recommend it, but it can be done.

klifton1
01-07-2012, 09:40 PM
Studebaker had a remote reservor for the firewall for the late cars. I have one on my Speedster.
Klif

63 R2 Hawk
01-07-2012, 09:41 PM
If you lost all the fluid, it is time to fix the problem. It needs a new or rebuilt mc and most likely wheel cylinders. If the carpet is glued down, I would try some judicious heat from a heat gun and a putty knife to pull it up. You're going to need proper access to bleed the brakes when you're done rebuilding the brake system so you might as well fix it right, even if it means a new, properly installed carpet.

dean pearson
01-07-2012, 09:49 PM
I installed a Turner brake M/C kit in my car today, It was easy for me with the body off.
Turner makes a first rate kit with everything you need included.
Really makes things easy, And comes with excellent tech support too.

Dean.

Aussie Hawk
01-07-2012, 09:56 PM
I've had three '62 GT's, all of them had a round vulcanised steel plate that covered the m/c inspection hole, I just excepted it. They also had the plate that covered the tranny oil dip stick). I don't think anyone over a period of 30 years ever asked what it was. If it bothers you use the old adage - If you can't hide it, make a feature of it. It's inevitable you will have to either cut or roll back the carpet, either while you are repairing the current problem, or to fit a remote fill point.

Corvanti
01-07-2012, 10:23 PM
agree with mr. clary, and others above: carpet or brakes? hmmm...

sharp razor, keep the cloth remnants to patch the area if necessary, while you're there, upgrade the brake system...

am i missing something???

Dick Steinkamp
01-08-2012, 12:03 AM
I posted this on an earlier, similar thread, but I have had no problem checking and adding fluid to Studebaker under floor MCs from UNDER the car (with the car supported on jack stands). In fact, I have found in many occasions that it is easier to remove the cap to the MC from under the car if it has been put on tightly. You can get a wrench on it from under the car but need an uncommon big socket to remove it from the top.

mbstude
01-08-2012, 12:21 AM
I nominate this one for Thread Of The Year.

studebaker-R2-4-me
01-08-2012, 12:53 AM
My drum non-powered brakes died. The pedal goes to the floor. Tried to get to the rubber cap under the rug on the drivers side to check for fluid. Whoever did the new interior on this car went and fastened the carpet with no way to get to the underside rubber plug. It's all hard fastened to the floor. Cannot raise the car in my driveway to get to Master Cylinder. Will not cut a hole in the rug. Anyone else have a better idea to check the fluid level before I tow to my local garage and let him do it on a lift. Also, how bad is it to convert to a dual master cylinder in the engine compart instead of under the floorboard ? Thx for any help.

Sorry this make no sense. You have no brakes, therefore you have no brake fluid. Why not cut the carpet above the M/C hole slightly smaller than the rubber cover (available at all vendors if you don't have one) which are about 1/2" bigger than the hole in the floor board. Just remove the two screws for the rubber cover, slip it through the cut out portion of carpet, and then put the rubber cover on top of the carpet replace the two screws. If your Hawk is set up with the remote reservoir you will have to remove the rubber cover sooner or later to remove the M/C cover anyway. Maybe it is not the M/C at all, instead it could be a leaky wheel cylinder. I would hate to have to fill the M/C from under the car especially when bleeding the brakes since that reservoir is small to begin with. Sand/dirt will fall in there in no time and screw the entire system up.

Cut the carpet....that how they came from the factory anyway.

Best of luck

Allen

BobPalma
01-08-2012, 06:21 AM
OK, they can be checked from under the car; sheesh.

It's not advisable because you can't see into the master cylinder to note any crud in it and it's easier to introduce dirt when working from underneath ('can't clean around it as effectively although, yes, you can clean around the opening from underneath), and it's more difficult to pour fluid into the master cylinder from beside it, rather than above it, and it is certainly more difficult to "see" when the cylinder is full and thus not spill any fluid, and it involves raising the car, requiring additional time, equipment, and some element of risk no matter how safely it's done, and, as I said earlier, it was never intended to be done that way.

Nonetheless, despite "all the above," agreed; it is not impossible.

Now, in the subject case, the owner will likely need to be doing quite a bit of work with the master cylinder, so it is still advisable to work from above, through the hole in the floor "as advertised." BP

rockinhawk
01-08-2012, 07:34 AM
I now own my 3rd 63 GT. All of mine have had disk brakes with the remote firewall mounted reservoir. If you don't want to cut the carpet. It seems to me you could find this type of system and use it with drum brakes.

jimmijim8
01-08-2012, 08:45 AM
I dunnit as Neil says. Ain't cuttin my rug. cheers jimmijim

junior
01-08-2012, 09:27 AM
I now own my 3rd 63 GT. All of mine have had disk brakes with the remote firewall mounted reservoir. If you don't want to cut the carpet. It seems to me you could find this type of system and use it with drum brakes.

Neil, do you have a photo of firewall mounted reservoir that you can share...are they plastic or metal? Thanks, Junior

mbstude
01-08-2012, 11:11 AM
The Hawk disc brake reservoir is shown here. It's the round canister with the red label on the passenger side of the cowl.

http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/pictures.ubh/2007/02/23/fs_1963_Studebaker_Hawk_Hardtop_Paxton_Supercharged_Engine_fvr_Super_Red_Poly__2 005_WW_WD_PROC__DSCN7970.jpg

rockinhawk
01-08-2012, 11:28 AM
Junior,I'm still not quite educated enough to do pictures but the canister is steel. I'm not sure as I remember how it connects to the M/C cap. It's been awhile since I had an issue with mine. Also I seem to remember seeing a plastic one that somone had installed off a foriegn car of some kind, but I don't recall the details.
Neil, do you have a photo of firewall mounted reservoir that you can share...are they plastic or metal? Thanks, Junior

klifton1
01-08-2012, 11:50 AM
The master cyl. cap is metal also. Just a line from reservor to the cap with a std. fitting screwed into cap. I think I got my cap from SASCO.
Klif

JoeHall
01-08-2012, 12:20 PM
I posted this on an earlier, similar thread, but I have had no problem checking and adding fluid to Studebaker under floor MCs from UNDER the car (with the car supported on jack stands). In fact, I have found in many occasions that it is easier to remove the cap to the MC from under the car if it has been put on tightly. You can get a wrench on it from under the car but need an uncommon big socket to remove it from the top.

I have been a strong believer of the Turner dual MC conversion, and have converted maybe half dozen Hawks. Though simple enough to access from above, I find it easier to access the dual MC from below, due to removal/reinstallation of the wire that holds the cap in place. With the cap off, I use my finger to insure the level is about 1/2" from top. If needed, I add fluid with a 2 oz syringe, with a about 2" of 3/8 hose over the end; I then use plug a 3-4" piece of 'U' shaped, 3/8 copper line into the rubber hose. The end of the copper makes a hook that drops neatly over the edge, and into the reservoir.

SN-60
01-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Stude offered an underhood resevoir in the midfifties. Similar to the disc brake GT Hawk setup, except it utilized a glass container which screwed on. Had this on My '56 GH. Worked very well.

jimmijim8
01-08-2012, 05:06 PM
Remote brake fluid reservoir as in 63-4 Hawk. thanks jimmijim

junior
01-08-2012, 05:37 PM
[QUOTE=mbstude;609521]The Hawk disc brake reservoir is shown here. It's the round canister with the red label on the passenger side of the cowl.

QUOTE]

Thanks for the info…what does the label say on the side of the canister? My car presently has more ‘modern’ remote plastic reservoirs for both the clutch and brakes but I find the Stude one perhaps a little more age appropriate for the mid-70’s era I want the engine compartment to look like. Looks like its large enough to feed both the brakes and clutch…perhaps just put a tee in the rubber line that would feed both masters. Hmmm…cool looks, but I wonder about the rust/corrosion aspect of the metal over time, and losing the ability to just ‘sight’ the fluid level at a glance. Does anyone know if these are available nos…or are they approaching or approached unobtainium status? Thanks, Junior.

Dick Steinkamp
01-09-2012, 12:47 AM
Here's another picture of it, Junior...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Finished/IMG_2365.jpg


The label says...

WARNING
USE 70 R3 FLUID ONLY
NO RESIDUAL CHECK
VALVE REQUIRED

Bob Andrews
01-09-2012, 05:11 AM
Copied from a thread on this subject from last month:


For future reference, I use JDP's idea: Just pick a reservoir for firewall mount and run a line down. There are tons of different shapes and sizes; you can pick one you like and make a bracket, or choose one that's got mounting holes built in. Used to be this involved hours spent wandering junkyards lifting hoods or poring over piles of manuals with fair to poor results, but thanks to eBay you can do a quick search and look. Here's a couple I just found:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Brake-Fluid-Reservoir-Beetle-Karmann-Ghia-1968-1979-Volkswagen-/110803729431?hash=item19cc6abc17&item=110803729431&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Karmann-Ghia-Master-Cylinder-Reservoir-1961-1966-/310366180090?hash=item48434412fa&item=310366180090&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Here's a search I made if anyone wants to bookmark it for later use:

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_...506.m270.l1313 (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=reservoir&_sacat=33559&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=&_osacat=33559&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313)

jimmijim8
01-09-2012, 10:12 AM
One could make a very close copy of a Stude reservoir by sectiong a bernsomatic torch bottle. I would make sure it were empty. cheers jimmijim

jclary
01-09-2012, 10:22 AM
One could make a very close copy of a Stude reservoir by sectiong a bernsomatic torch bottle. I would make sure it were empty. cheers jimmijim

Naw...make it so you could change out full bottles...talk about a power brake booster!....:rolleyes::p:eek:

junior
01-09-2012, 11:09 PM
Here's another picture of it, Junior...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Finished/IMG_2365.jpg


The label says...

WARNING
USE 70 R3 FLUID ONLY
NO RESIDUAL CHECK
VALVE REQUIRED

Thanks for the info, I thought about this all day and decided to keep my plastic ones as they kind of remind me of my first car`s (Datsun 510) as they are mounted in tandam. The Datsun was a `71 so I guess plastic won`t look too out of place in attempt to make my car look like it was modified in the mid to late 70`s. Too bad I didn`t know about the Studebaker unit earlier as I probably would have gone that route instead. Regards, Junior.

geojerry
01-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Update. Pulled all the floor mats off and behold, I found a circle rug cutout. When removed, there was the rubber plug. The metal cover on the Master cylinder needed some liq wrench and a good grip on my tool to turn, but I got it off. No Brake fluid in the reservor. So I filled up with DOT 3 and pumped the brake pedal. It cam back to life, but needs a bleeding. No leaks after a few days. I will drive over next week to the shop and have them check out the lines. The Master looks very rusty. May purchase one from Stud Intl to play safe Thanks for all the comments..