View Full Version : Dumb question of the day

01-06-2012, 12:37 PM
Here goes.
I know that Avanti frames are derived from a Lark. Was the front crossmember modified in any way? I ask this because of a thread on the racing forum about headers. If the frames are identical, why would tube headers be so difficult on an Avanti versus a Lark? Maybe because of inner fender design?
I'm just being curious. I have ordered a roller cam for a future hot rod Stude project and am in the parts/information gathering mode. Thanks.

01-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Since there are no "Headers" available for any Stude. it may be a (start line-out:mute end line-out) moot point. They may not be easy to make for any model and or no demand. It is true that they have little to no effect on a stock engine.

01-06-2012, 01:48 PM
Tube headers will help in the performance of any Studebaker.
The real reason they are pooh-poohed so much on the forum is that they are not easy to build, or are expensive.
Since few will make them for next to nothing, the excuses about little or no effect are trotted out.
But, the new roller cam option that is out there is not without peril.
In order to take advantage of the technology, a lot of internal changes are needed, otherwise it is just another gizmo.
It is the 'package' that counts. Carb, intake, heads, exhaust pipes and mufflers, rocker arms, (roller) lifters, and camshaft.
Just adding one performance item will not get the maximum effect.
They ALL need to be working together.
Headers alone are not going to automatically give you 50 free horsepower on your street 259 or 289.
But, good tube headers might help your engine produce more HP at a higher RPM than a cast iron exhaust manifold would.
And running a good tube exhaust header into a 1&7/8" exhaust pipe isn't going to do much either.
It just bugs me a bit when I hear the phrase "won't, can't, doesn't do any good"....
That, to me.... Well, that is just the starting point.
It's the challenge that counts.

01-06-2012, 02:40 PM
I am surrounded by performance people at the shop where I do most of my damage. There are many, many years of performance experience there to enhance my knowledge. I see high dollars and high horsepower go in and out all of the time. I also see know-it-all, big spenders and closed minded people in and out all of the time. One of these guys observed while I was cutting my cams up for the roller cam adventure. He is a die-hard Ford guy and just snickers when I talk of a performance Studebaker. We have a Pontiac guy that bleeds Pontiac blue that thinks any other brand is pretty much a waste of time.
It is almost laughable to listen to these guys talk. The Ford guy won't bring his prized 9 second Mustang out of the garage. The Pontiac guy won't dirve his 700 horsepower Trans-Am above the posted speed limit. When I crank my 63 Lark with a 259 engine in it, they cock their heads like a puppy and wonder why it sounds"different" (I am also a little curious about the 259 because it doesn't sound or act stock).
I have heard the can't and the won't from these guys enough that I have decided to build a "performance" Studebaker engine. I have the skills necessary to do the work. I also have the equipment to accomplish my goal. So, as I stated earlier, I am in the parts collecting/information collecting mode. Will it be expensive? Hell yes it will, but after looking at an invoice this morning for a small block Chevy 427 totalling around the $11,000 mark, is it really going to cost more??? It costs money if you want to go fast. I might as well do it with a Studebaker. If it fails, it will be a lesson learned. If I accomplish my goals, I may see some of these naysayers eat a little crow. I will spend some bucks but I will have something to show for it. Some say it will be a waste of money. I don't think so. The time I spend with my son and friends on this project will be well worth it. If I wanted to waste money, I'd be stuffing dollar bills in a G-string somewhere.
Rant over.

dusty taylor
01-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Here are some pictures of a set that I am working on. They are for a 1942 with a 289. Dusty

01-06-2012, 04:01 PM
Is this to be the new power plant for Christine? ;)

Point well made. It takes an entire package to make each part of the package perform up to its full potential.

01-06-2012, 04:09 PM
Not Chrstine. This is a double secret project. It's so secret, I don't even know which car it will be in.

01-06-2012, 05:35 PM
The only differences between the Lark and an Avanti, is height and the Avanti has a much larger steering box and attendant hoses. So the only thing to do is get headers that fit on one and try it on the other.

01-06-2012, 05:38 PM
Not Christine.

Well. I'm let down. <grin>

01-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Thanks Alan. I did not realize there was a difference in the steering boxes.

ole 64
01-06-2012, 06:38 PM
Is this going to be my birthday surprise for the 66 "flamer" that I'm dropping off next week for minor tweaking?

01-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Well spoken

01-07-2012, 12:20 AM
Hi Jamie, if you can go fast in a Stude powered vehicle, you've got something to be proud of. And if a "stock" Studebaker can break into the 12's in
a quarter mile a modified Studebaker powered vehicle should be able to break into the 10's with the knowledge and technology available today.
In the case of the Avanti you do not need to have the power steering set-up, and in that case it is almost identical to the Lark.
And what Jeff said, there are many nay sayers, few doers. Please keep the people that think like you do informed of your progress. Good Luck

01-07-2012, 01:02 AM
I do not see why you would think this is a dumb question. Seems legit to me.
I am in the middle of a mild 289 build, and I have not had that big of a problem with parts cost. I have had some great help and support from members here on some parts and there will be alot of stuff you have to make custom if you really want to make it high HP. But it is all doable and for not much more than your standard ford or Mopar. Chevy hi-po parts are definately cheaper to buy than ford or Mopar stuff, but if you have access to a good machine shop and some time...you can do it and we, well me, want to see it.

My machineist is milling my heads for $70 and he said he will do a complete valve job for $225
He is a race car owner and builder. His son races his asphalt and dirt modifieds and stock cars. He mostly builds Chevy 434 small blocks that have to hold for a long time. Building an 800 hp motor for a circle track car, it had better be tough. My point here is, with the right contacts and tools/equipment you can do it, and you can do it on a budget.