Engine: 1951 Commander Cranks, but won't start

[Athans]

Hi there, I am new to the Studebaker Community, and Studebaker's in general. It has always been a dream of mine to have a 50 or 51 Stude that I can drive around just as though it was fresh off the line, and that dream has recently come true... for the most part.

While it is true that I always wanted to own one, I also wanted to drive it as well. Therein lies my problem. The car is all original, which means it is all 60 years old (except for a few rewiring things and brakes that the guy I purchased it from did). When I turn the key and hit the start button the engine will turn and turn and turn, but not start. It nearly starts the first time after sitting for a little while, but quickly dies. So here are the issues I am seeing mechanically so far (and a couple others that I hope to get some information on).

1. I have noticed that the reservoir on the fuel pump has not gone down, and considering that the fuel line is not currently connected to it I would think that should be going down.

2. However, I also figured that when shooting starting fluid into the carb the car should fire, but even that is doing nothing. All the spark plugs are new and the point is clean.

3 (other issue). I am reluctant to hook up all of the fuel lines to the engine as I do not know if the fuel tank is clean inside or not. Any ideas how I would be able to check that out/fix it?

4 (other). When I went to pick up the car the fuel tank got dented (leading to more concern about putting fuel in as sediment may have been knocked free. Any remedies for getting a dent out of a tank like that?

5. Lastly, when I first pulled the old plugs on it I noticed that there was a fuel smell coming from the electrode ends of them. When I went to explore further I realized that there was a good amount of fuel inside the engine. My old man had the idea to burn the excess fuel out with his torch. So we went from one port to the next on the V8 just shot a little heat in. The #8 piston blew out big time. Any reason why there would be excess fuel in that piston alone? (am I using the correct terminology? Please let me know if I am off in what I am saying, thanks)

Again, I am very new to Studebaker's, new to the car mechanical world in general. Any information that could be thrown my way I would really appreciate. I love these old cars and it kills me to see so many of them getting chopped for parts and/or hot rodded out.

I'm very excited to be a part of this community, and look forward to your replies!
Thank you very much,
Sincerely,
Jon

[rockne10]

First thing I would do is pull the cap off the distributor; have someone push the starter button and see if the rotor is turning. If it is, rule out timing gears. If there is a stripped timing gear, the camshaft won't be turning and the fuel pump won't be pumping.

[Tom Bredehoft]

1. I have noticed that the reservoir on the fuel pump has not gone down, and considering that the fuel line is not currently connected to it I would think that should be going down.

The reservoir (settling tank) draws from the top, fills through the vertical tube, so without input you are not drawing any out.

Attach a rubber hose to the input to the filter, put it in a can of gas, but be aware of fire hazards. If the pump is working, it should draw fuel from the can.

[StudeRich]

Welcome to Cars, Studebakers, the Studebaker Drivers Club and to our SDC Forum Jon!
You will find Membership info at the top of these pages to Join the Club to receive the Monthly Publication, TURNING WHEELS at a first time discount.

Also, there may be Local Chapter Members with Automotive knowledge to help you out.

The wet spark plugs and fuel in #8 could be from the last owner trying to run it with a bad Carb. it could have a stuck needle and seat, bad float or whatever, but it caused the engine to get flooded with fuel at some time in the past.

It sounds like the whole fuel system needs servicing from age.

Also you said: "the point is clean" the points need to be more than clean, they need to be New, and correctly gapped and with a new Condensor, good Rotor, Cap and Plug Wires.
Check that the Distributor is tight in the engine, if it is loose, someone has tried to set the timing and left it loose, you will have to reset the timing.

Have you checked to see if there is spark at the spark plug end of one of the Plug cables?

Is the Battery a Group 1, 6 Volt (three cell covers) that is POSITIVE grounded? This is very important to have very heavy gauge cables and the + Batt. post connected to the engine block.

A really good thing for you to have would be the Studebaker Shop Manual, Chassis Parts Catalog and Body Parts Catalog, available at Studebaker Vendors at: studebakervendors.com in eith book form or CD ROM Disc. so you can read it on a Computer or print needed pages to work with.

[Athans]

Ok, so here is an update. Figured out the points were gapped too far. So fixed that and now she wants to go... but isn't quite yet. We are trying to figure out the correct ignition timing. Also wanted to make sure the firing order is correct. I know that it is 18436572 (front to rear: left bank: 1-3-5-7; right bank 2-4-6-8). Just a quick question for you all... is it right and left from inside the car or from looking at the engine from the front? I know that usually it was from inside, but I also know Studebaker did their own thing and want to be sure about how the plugs are hooked up.

The carb is also spitting a LOT of fuel. Actually had it shoot some out and over the car and land about 10ft away on the driveway. Any reason for this?

Thank you for your responses so far it has been very helpful.

~Jon

[christophe]

Hi Jon,

I thought you might like this link: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/...Tuneupcht.html
The first cylinder is on your right when you are if front of the car. The left bank is on driver's side.
Spitting gas from the carb can mean several things:
Bad timing of the distributor/incorrect order of firing (most likely).
Clogged jet(s) in the carb.
Valve(s) trouble.
Beware of the projections. Better have a fire extinguisher handy.

Welcome and best of luck.

[Athans]

Hey thanks for that info! I'll have to get out and see how those graphs compare. As I stated in a previous post I am pretty new to working on classics and Studebaker's particularity. The graphs start at a 1954 V8.
Was that the same as the 51 V8 as well?
I just want to be sure.

Thanks,
~Jon

PS
I am also looking for a place to get either original or excellent reprints of the Studebaker Shop Manual, Chassis Parts Catalog, and Body Parts Catalog, as well as an interchangeable parts book for the 1951 Studebaker Commander.

If anyone knows where I can get any of these I would appreciate it so I can really put this baby together right!

[christophe]

Was that the same as the 51 V8 as well?

I'd say there is no great difference between the 51 and the 54, but only the shop manual and the parts catalog can give you all the details.
Studebaker International has them all in paper:
800420 Shop manual
800430 Chassis manual
800435 Body manual
Total of all manuals if purchased Separately...............................................$87.50
801185 Special package price........................................ $74.50
or on CD.
801454 Includes:#800420 Shop manual, #800421 Shop manual, #800430 Chassis manual, #800435 Body manual, #800436, Body manual...........................$19.95

Have a nice day.

[StudeRich]

When checking the plug wire correct position in the Cap, do not forget that Studebakers are COUNTERCLOCKWISE ROTATION.

Spitting that much fuel from the Carb. with that much force, sounds like some Intake Valves are stuck OPEN.