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View Full Version : 331 Hemi in a 63 Hawk



TXmark
02-18-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm considering this I would like the opinion of the group.
Would it be Awesome or Awful.

sweetolbob
02-18-2011, 01:01 PM
Mark

First off all I can say is "Can't wait for this one."

Realistically, as an SBC follower, follow your dream. If you want it, put it in. Hemi's look good and all the arguments about weight and size, etc. Have been gone over ad nausium.

If it's your dream do it. While the opinions of the forum are appreciated and advice gladly accepted, I'll build what I like and make it look like I what I want.

Bob

cycledog
02-18-2011, 01:06 PM
No matter what, Hemi's are awsome. I had a 392 in a 52 F-1 truck, loved it. 331 not a whole lotta hp and gotta have deep pockets to build any Hemi. There are alot of goodies out there for them.

Hope you go for it. Can't wait to see the results.

junior
02-18-2011, 01:09 PM
It's been done,(I assume the 331 and 392 are from the same original Hemi family) and it's hot...talk about eye candy! http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?7683-Hemi-Stude

52-fan
02-18-2011, 01:21 PM
The engine will most certainly fit. As long as you are ready for the financial and engineering challenges you're good to go. Please don't get half way in and give up.

PackardV8
02-18-2011, 02:22 PM
You did ask for opinions:

I know about swapping wider, heavier and more expensive engines into Hawks, but I use Packard V8s. Don't do it because it makes any sense at all, you do it because you have to do it.

It may seem like an idea to put a 331" hemi in a '63 Hawk because is it is not as common as some other swaps, thus gets different strokes points. However, it has been done before with the real-deal 392" hemi. The 331" will be heavier, cost a lot more to build and fit and when you've got it installed, it will make less horsepower than most any other V8 of much smaller external size and lower cost. Hemi horsepower costs even more than Studebaker horsepower. If it makes a difference to you, some impressionable people will walk by and say, "that thing's got a hemi in it."

jack vines

Pat Dilling
02-18-2011, 02:31 PM
Sure, It'll fit:

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/data/517/medium/Hot_August_Nights_2006_074.jpg

604 Cubic inches

mausersmth
02-18-2011, 02:33 PM
If you're pulling a Stude block out, make sure it finds a home. Too many usable blocks have been scrapped.

black56hawk
02-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Sure it will fit.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/413coronet/loadedlark.jpg

March 1960 Hot Rod Magazine

okc63avanti
02-18-2011, 04:42 PM
ON SALE only $13,500 ... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5249666AE/?rtype=10

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/MISC/427Hemi.jpg

Now that's a Hemi !!!

junior
02-18-2011, 08:19 PM
Sure it will fit.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/413coronet/loadedlark.jpg

March 1960 Hot Rod Magazine

WOW...now that's 8 barrels of fun...what a clean install!

Jessie J.
02-18-2011, 08:51 PM
I used to have (decades ago) an article detailing the installation of a 392 Hemi into a finned Hawk, I believe it was in an old issue of Hot Rod.
As I recall, the owner was from Lansing Michigan, and was very pleased with the result, with highway acceleration like a jet-plane on takeoff.

Milaca
02-18-2011, 08:56 PM
This makes me wonder if anyone has ever installed an International Harvestor V8 (304, 345 or 392) into a Studebaker. If the general concensus is "no", then I may just have to do it! :)

sbca96
02-18-2011, 09:30 PM
If I was going to swap out a Stude V8, I would go EFI LT1 or LS1, IMO it doesnt
make sense to swap a carb for a carb motor. Go OD or its even more pointless.

Tom

PackardV8
02-18-2011, 09:31 PM
Now that you mention it, the only US OHV8 engines I haven't personally seen in a Stude do include the IH, Ford Y-block, MEL, FE and 335 and the GM BOP 215" V8, AMC Gen I and II. Literally everything else I know of has been swapped in.

jack vines

Andy R.
02-18-2011, 10:53 PM
In my opinion, the quality of workmanship is more important than engine selection.

In my other opinion, a 331 would be out of place in any 1963. Either a later, larger Hemi or an earlier, pre-Hawk model would make more sense as a performance upgrade over stock for each respective period.

If I saw a 331 in a '63 GT, I would suspect the original engine was ruined and you already had the Hemi sitting around ready to go. It would be like popping the hood on a Nomad and finding a FLATHEAD V8. Seems like a lot of work for modest gains, if any at all.

As my wife says to me more than I care to admit, "What's the point?"
Still, I'd be the first to admire a well-executed installation if you have that 331 ready to go.

Just my non-adjusted for inflation two cents...if you're happy, I'll be happy for you.

TXmark
02-19-2011, 12:41 AM
the engine I'm looking at is an Industrial 331 (ran a water pump) total rebuild required I would probably bore it to a 354. I'm looking for 350 Hp which should not be hard to get. I am also weighing in the cool factor of a Hemi.:cool: the cool factor is more of what I'm after than anything. the concern of the motor being 50's technology does concern me but.... Is not hemi technology timeless. I do like to be different than the Chevy/Ford crowd but don't all Stude owners? If I was looking for HP and easy I would go with a crate SBC. I'm just going to look at this engine I have not committed to it yet the one big advantage this engine it does not have the entended bell housing. yep I know it will require deep pockets
Thanks for everyones input

bezhawk
02-19-2011, 08:20 AM
Heck! if you want to be different, (and the engine needs rebuilding already), why not put in a new hemi? Fuel injected and lots more driveable too!

PackardV8
02-19-2011, 11:03 AM
Is not hemi technology timeless.

No, the true hemispheric combustion chamber hasn't been used in production engines since the '58s. Engineers found much more efficient designs with each decade. Getting a true, dyno confirmed 350 HP from your 354" hemi will cost probably 5X as much as 350 HP from an LS engine or even the current not-really-a-hemi Mopar.

Just to confirm again, I don't take my own advice. Packard V8 horsepower costs 5X as much also. I just realize that going in and don't confuse what I like to do with what makes any economic sense or engineering sense at all.


I am also weighing in the cool factor of a Hemi. the cool factor is more of what I'm after than anything.Again, just me, but build what you like. Cool is in the eye of the beholder. As you can see from the previously expressed opinions here, there are just as many who thing an old hemi is not such a great idea as those who think it is.

jack vines

TXmark
02-19-2011, 11:55 AM
my daily driver is a '99 Dodge Dakota 5.9. the thought crossed my mind mant times of using the engine out of it 235 hp stock, to get 350 HP out of it would be cheaper that a 331 hemi. If some one totaled my truck I would do it in an instant! Hmm Maybe put the 331 Hemi in my truck, just kidding

Alan
02-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Mark, Don't let these nay Sayers deter you. That 331 industrial motor has some of the best early Hemi heads. Although if I were doing it I would sell the heads and build a Dodge hemi.

gordr
02-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Back in the day, I knew a guy who put a 331 Hemi into a '53 Starliner hardtop. So it will fit. He said, in fact, that it was an easy swap to do.

But putting a 331 Hemi into a car ten years newer than the engine seems questionable to me. By then, much more power was available from other engines.

Also, I'm pretty sure that industrial motor will need many upgrades and modifications to make it into a decent-performing automotive engine, so be prepared to spend big dollars.

Bottom line? A newer Hemi would be equally "cool", and may well cost less for more power.

Even if you are building a nostalgia hot rod, I think the consensus would be to build what would have been built back in the day. And in the early '60s darn few rodders would have used an obsolete Hemi when bigger, faster ones were available.

Just my .02

Alan
02-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Gord. Putting the early Hemi in is easy, the biggest problem is hood clearance. You even have to put bubbles in the hood for the front of the valve covers. The C-K at least.

cycledog
02-19-2011, 03:58 PM
Now that you mention it, the only US OHV8 engines I haven't personally seen in a Stude do include the IH, Ford Y-block, MEL, FE and 335 and the GM BOP 215" V8, AMC Gen I and II. Literally everything else I know of has been swapped in.

jack vines

If Studebaker had made a competive engine in the fisrt place there would no reason to swap them out. ...........Guess I had better duck.

PackardV8
02-19-2011, 05:09 PM
If Studebaker had made a competive engine in the fisrt place there would no reason to swap them out. ...........Guess I had better duck.

Them's fightin' words! There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Studebaker V8 . . . . . . . . . .

besides being huge on the outside, tiny displacement inside, heavy, low horsepower potential because of the small valves and ports and expensive to build. Why, it's even got a gear driven cam!

jack vines

black56hawk
02-19-2011, 07:43 PM
Here's a discussion of early hemi potential:

http://www.thehemi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2851

TXmark
02-21-2011, 01:05 PM
Picked up the engine today, got a pair of hugger style headers too. this was the last of ten the guy bought out of a warehouse in Corpus Christi. he showed me a couple that he had rebuilt, one of them was going in a customers Plymouth Satelite looked to be a '69. most of them he rebuilt for customers cars.
hothemiheads.com has the best quality parts
the guy I bought from was Flair Classic Cars Conroe TX. nice shop, looked to do good work, certainly had plenty of business.
One more thing, the first thing he mentioned was the cool factor of a Hemi:cool:
my car is already a mild custom, might as well do a little more

3x2stude
02-21-2011, 06:32 PM
Mark,

If swap you must I think its a cool choice. I am 54 and didn't get a Stude til 3 years ago. I had wanted one since I was 17 after I saw a 54 C body, straight axle gasser behind a local gas station with an early hemi.

Good Luck,

Jon Kammer
3x2stude

Don Jeffers
02-21-2011, 07:45 PM
Put a '53 nose on that '63 Hawk and it would be a double cool custom Stude. The '63 frame would help keep the torquey hemi from wrapping the car around itself when you race it. (Jus' kiddin', it's a mental picture I have of your hemi powered Stude). No end of the possibilities with that combo. It's all art work.

And that industrial hemi might have adjustable rockers, a rare item. Does it have bumps in the valve covers to clear the adjusting screws?

bob40
02-21-2011, 08:27 PM
I have a 331 sitting in my garage.Not sure where it will end up but I do know I measured twice and it would fit in my CE.:)

woodysrods
02-22-2011, 12:04 AM
As long as it goes down the road instead of sitting in a garage somewhere waiting for some kind of life under the hood.
Good Luck with your project.
And
Good Roads
Brian

TXmark
02-22-2011, 01:12 PM
I have owned my Studebaker for about 4 mo. now, been a car nut forever, British Triumphs is what I have been into for the last ten years. I drove the Stude to a local Club meeting last Sunday about 120 mi. round trip, Interstate all the way 65 to 70 mph I don't baby my cars and never will, I drive them. I knew it used a little oil but not as much as I thought.
1 qt consumption in 120 miles, pretty much time for a rebuild anyhow.

Let's see, hmmm? 331 Hemi :cool: or 289 stude:confused: no brainer too me.
Long live the chrysler Hemi! I'll do my best to keep the fire lit!

Drive it like you stole it

Mike Van Veghten
02-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Yea...go for it.

All the talk about carburetors vs. F.I...B.S. All the talk about newer engines...B.S.
Though I would look for a 392 over the 331, it'll still make a cool car. And as others have said...while it has been done....by just how many..and how many are running now..?

I've seen (many times) the yellow car pictured above. It's very close to a Hot Wheels car, and I've never seen it actually running..!

For the record....the LXxxxx GM engine has been done too..! One near me at most of the cruise nights in the area. It won some trophy or another at the GNRS and actually does get driven.. Have never seen a current Hemi in a Stude though.

The main bad thing(s) about the 331...is all that heavy cast iron that's basically part of the back of the block/bellhousing...and the little cubic inches...

Do it and have fun.

Mike

Skinnys Garage
02-22-2011, 03:05 PM
Yea...go for it.
The main bad thing(s) about the 331...is all that heavy cast iron that's basically part of the back of the block/bellhousing...and the little cubic inches...
Do it and have fun.
MikeHe should be ok with this engine. It's an industrial block without the integral bell. Chrysler used the integral bell on 331's from '51-'53 and part of '54. My '55 Imperial had the bolt on bell like his engine. It's still heavy at over 700 pounds though.

PackardV8
02-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Let's see, hmmm? 331 Hemi or 289 stude no brainer too me.

Strap that useless junk 289 stude on a pallet and I'll put a will call pickup on it to get it out of your way, no charge.

jack vines

DEEPNHOCK
02-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Talk about a gas hog...... What are you thinking?:rolleyes:


This makes me wonder if anyone has ever installed an International Harvestor V8 (304, 345 or 392) into a Studebaker. If the general concensus is "no", then I may just have to do it! :)

PackardV8
02-22-2011, 05:52 PM
What are you thinking?



This makes me wonder if anyone has ever installed an International Harvestor V8 (304, 345 or 392) into a Studebaker. If the general concensus is "no", then I may just have to do it!

He's pointing out different for the sake of being different isn't necessarily better?

jack vines

Skinnys Garage
02-22-2011, 06:06 PM
He's pointing out different for the sake of being different isn't necessarily better?

jack vinesI doubt it Jack, Brent is a die hard IH guy and I wouldn't put this swap past him!:cool:

Of course I've had Scouts for decades too, so I'm no better.:rolleyes:

And by the way Jeff, my 345 4 barrel doesn't get any worse mileage than my f-150......well maybe that's a bad comparison......

Milaca
02-22-2011, 07:01 PM
Talk about a gas hog...... What are you thinking?:rolleyes:

The 304's are quite easy on fuel (or so I've been told). I would very likely never do such a transplant, but having the only one of it's kind is always tempting! :)

Alan
02-22-2011, 08:15 PM
You can put anything in if you spit on it enough.

TXmark
02-23-2011, 01:34 AM
Strap that useless junk 289 stude on a pallet and I'll put a will call pickup on it to get it out of your way, no charge.

jack vines
Now jack I did not say the Stude 289 was worthless, rebuild 289 vs rebuild 331 Hemi:cool:thats all!

I'm planning on driving it with the 289 still in it to the Natl's, a case of oil and a spare set of plugs should do the trick. Or I might borrow a trailer

TXmark
02-23-2011, 01:54 AM
754275407541
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/misc/pencil.png

Bob Andrews
02-23-2011, 04:33 AM
Ah, THAT'S where that car ended up! I looked at that car in Carlisle PA. Really liked the color combo. Seeing the fender vents missing concerned me a bit.

sbca96
02-23-2011, 11:16 AM
If you want to be original, V8's have been done to death, how about a V10 or
a V12 .. or perhaps a rotory engine from a B17 (might be a Studebaker) or a
Mazda? 331 is JUST another V8 at the end of the day.

Major points will be given if you use a Helicopter engine like a Tucker.

Tom

TXmark
02-23-2011, 02:01 PM
If you want to be original, V8's have been done to death, how about a V10 or
a V12 .. or perhaps a rotory engine from a B17 (might be a Studebaker) or a
Mazda? 331 is JUST another V8 at the end of the day.

Major points will be given if you use a Helicopter engine like a Tucker.

Tom
I was looking for a Lincoln V12 but I could not find one that didn't come with a car included

old digger
02-23-2011, 03:42 PM
You can put anything in if you spit on it enough.
At my age? Maby there is still hope.

1950 Champion RegalDeluxe
02-24-2011, 08:28 PM
I would save that 331 for a 20's or 30's Studebaker or other make retro rod.

I see plenty of wrecked late model vehicles with interesting drive train possibilities for sale lately.

You may be able to pick up an entire Dodge or Ford truck with a V-10.

There are many different sports car offerings available as well.

I think the 331 would still be a great engine to use, and it looks like you have a great car to do it with; but it may be better applied to a different application.