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64V-K7
02-16-2011, 07:19 AM
Ever see one of these before ?...

http://www.studebaker-info.org/MVC-034Xm.JPG

Chris Pile
02-16-2011, 10:32 AM
Shirt, or coveralls?

bezhawk
02-17-2011, 06:32 AM
Yes, it's a plastic bag.

53k
02-17-2011, 08:02 AM
BIG surprise coming. Watch this thread for sensational news.

Corvanti
02-17-2011, 08:54 AM
don't want to spoil the surprise, but if it belongs to greg - the pic is up on aaca and it is BEAUTIFUL!!! :cool:

64V-K7
02-17-2011, 10:41 AM
Yes, the shirt does belong to Greg....

and so does this.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/avdb/duecento/dcimages/R5eng0211am.jpg

This is a reproduction of the R5 engine used at Bonneville in the Due Cento. The term "reproduction" has to be used lightly, as the parts are genuine, ie the ones used by Granatelli, in the actual Due Cento car. The block may even be the actual one used, but this information is still under scrutiny.

This information was released with Greg's approval...

53k
02-17-2011, 01:51 PM
Yes, the shirt does belong to Greg....

and so does this.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/avdb/duecento/dcimages/R5eng0211am.jpg

This is a reproduction of the R5 engine used at Bonneville in the Due Cento. The term "reproduction" has to be used lightly, as the parts are genuine, ie the ones used by Granatelli, in the actual Due Cento car. The block may even be the actual one used, but this information is still under scrutiny.

This information was released with Greg's approval...
To add a little to the above, Greg's words-
"We've gone over the fact that there's only two known images of the R-5. Half-tone magazine shots . The original pics had been pilfered before I tried to find them in the sixties.
When I bought the pile of R-5 parts from Joe Granatelli, it came without instructions, but he did include a snapshot.
Unless the Granatellis have some pics stored away, this might be the only existing photograph, safely tucked away for forty years.
Also enclosed find a picture of the engine real time. Unfinished, and unpainted, but major parts hung together.
As they say in the movies....."Ladies and Gentlemen, we bring you Kong...."

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Original%20R-5%20Engine.jpg

Best part- Bob Johnstone and I have an invite to see the beast in person near term.

Andy R.
02-17-2011, 03:58 PM
*Bookmarking thread(s)* That R5 is a work of ART!

I have a few vintage and repro Nat Nast shirts...very comfortable, but none so classy as that one^.

mbstude
02-17-2011, 04:20 PM
Holy Moly. Amazing.

Speechless.

Bob Andrews
02-17-2011, 04:43 PM
Yes, it's a plastic bag.

Thanks for making me laugh REALLY loudly in a quiet room:):)

clonelark
02-18-2011, 03:54 AM
That looks close to 1000 Lbs.

bezhawk
02-18-2011, 07:07 AM
That looks close to 1000 Lbs.

Weight is not a big factor at Bonneville, it is when you are trying to accellerate that it comes into play. Any belly-button motor can blip the throttle for 15 seconds .
It takes real endurence to hold the throttle open under full load for 5 miles !

junior
02-18-2011, 09:48 AM
That motor is amazing, and yes finally a photo that clearly depicts what the dual Paxtons look like instead of the half-tone (and a poor quality one at that) of the engine taken as it was mounted in the Avanti. Bet there was no worry about the belts slipping on this set up. Thanks for posting. Junior.

Bellingham Studenut
02-18-2011, 02:43 PM
To add a little to the above, Greg's words-
"We've gone over the fact that there's only two known images of the R-5. Half-tone magazine shots . The original pics had been pilfered before I tried to find them in the sixties.
When I bought the pile of R-5 parts from Joe Granatelli, it came without instructions, but he did include a snapshot.
Unless the Granatellis have some pics stored away, this might be the only existing photograph, safely tucked away for forty years.
Also enclosed find a picture of the engine real time. Unfinished, and unpainted, but major parts hung together.
As they say in the movies....."Ladies and Gentlemen, we bring you Kong...."

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Original%20R-5%20Engine.jpg

Best part- Bob Johnstone and I have an invite to see the beast in person near term.



Here are a few more shots including the side:

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo6/Studenut_photos/History/R5EngineSideView.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo6/Studenut_photos/History/R5EngineFront.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo6/Studenut_photos/History/R5EngineTopView.jpg

James

53k
02-18-2011, 03:30 PM
Here are a few more shots including the side:

James
Wow! Thanks. I am sending these to Greg in case he is unaware of them. May he contact you? He's not a Forum guy.

PlainBrownR2
02-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Hmm, I always forget how they plumbed that induction setup. Usually the way I have seen(Okay I only have 1-2 examples) was the blowers were fed into two separate carbs. In this manner, I knew they did something wildly different, where there was no traditional manifold, but the air/fuel mixture came into the heads directly from the plumbing hanging on the front of the engine.
Well, now I have an overhead shot of how that worked. The throttle body was mounted up front, the plumbing tee'd behind it to the two blowers, which then fed the heads in two separate banks in a draw through, rather than a blow through setup. If it's possible, I'd love to see a modern overhead shot of that engine much like the third black and white photo, as it is now being reassembled :cool:.

53k
02-18-2011, 04:09 PM
The Avanti Team shirt picture that started this thread was not one that Greg had for many years nor is it a re-pop. It was a current gift to Greg. His words-
"Ups came today and really shot my evening work plans.
I am really enjoying getting back to my Avanti days. Except for the problems presented by drastically overpriced materials, motor oil that kills, and reproduction parts that don't fit, the getting reacquainted with my favorite modern car and establishing contact with old and new friends in the search for information is total enjoyment.
Although I'm a dinosaur where modern technology is concerned, I find that this computer does enhance the search for information, the R-5 project included.
Where that's concerned, I'm especially fortunate to have made some contact with the Granatellis themselves. I've never been able to do that . Once while stationed in Germany, I even hopped a train to Bavaria when I heard they were in country to see about an Indy car chassis. I missed them, that forty years ago.
I now have contact, though being careful not to wear out my welcome.
Then in today's mail comes this, a gift from the Granatelli family. Can you believe a NOS Team shirt from 1963.
Open the Youtube "Bonneville Record Breaker" video. The crew has them on.
I haven't opened the sealed plastic. Malcolm Collum, formerly of the Henry Ford and currently Chief Conservator for Nat'l Air and Space has already been consulted. A good friend to have on your side...."

junior
02-18-2011, 08:26 PM
The throttle body was mounted up front, the plumbing tee'd behind it to the two blowers, which then fed the heads in two separate banks in a draw through, rather than a blow through setup.
:. I think I read somewhere that it was a Benidix fuel injector...but can't recall the source. Is this engine slated to be run or installed in a actual car or engine dyno?? Regardless, the wow factor is off the scale. Junior

PlainBrownR2
02-18-2011, 08:44 PM
I'm going to grab a thread from an earlier posting on the engine, but they did use Bendix fuel injection...
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9715-R5-Avanti/page2&highlight=Cento

I am also pretty impressed, but I do keep in mind what was said early on about idling around on the street with it, because it wasn't to cruise on a street, but rather blasting down the strip at high rpms on the salt flats :cool:. That said, with 40 years of technological improvement in between, tuning shouldn't be AS hard to pull off :).

bezhawk
02-19-2011, 07:14 AM
On the AACA forum he states that he doesn't have pistons for it......I happen to have a set of R3 Fordged True pistons....Hmmmmm.
I need an R3 Fan blade and supercharger elbow.

53k
02-19-2011, 07:59 AM
On the AACA forum he states that he doesn't have pistons for it......I happen to have a set of R3 Fordged True pistons....Hmmmmm.
I need an R3 Fan blade and supercharger elbow.
I'll give him your phone number. However, I think his problem is he wants to build the engine exactly as it was run at Bonneville. He could make his own pistons. I think there is some question as to what pistons were used at Bonneville. It has taken him many years to solve as many riddles as he has. The side-view picture posted by Bellingham Studenut helped answer one question- did they use a different sump from the R-3s on the Bonneville engine.
The R-3 supercharger elbow is really an unobtainium item. Even the crate R-3 I got came with the R-2 elbow and that was from Granatellis in 1965. When I was looking for one Jon Myer told me he had never been able to find them.

bezhawk
02-19-2011, 08:11 AM
My R3 sump has an oil temp sensor bung brazed into place too (like in the pics).

StudeMichael
02-19-2011, 10:47 AM
What is the story on the R5 parts find? Did I miss something?

53k
02-19-2011, 01:18 PM
What is the story on the R5 parts find? Did I miss something?
Greg Cone has loved Avantis since as a teenager he saw a new one being unloaded at his home town Studebaker dealer. While it was some time before he could afford to buy an Avanti himself, he started collecting high performance Studebaker engine parts almost immediately. In the '60s he and another man went to Granatellis in California and bought up a bunch of parts and Bonneville stuff. Greg got the R-5 engine stuff. As time went on he ultimately acquired three Avantis one which he made in to a perfect R-3 clone even to Halibrands. He has kept the R-5 story secret for many years, but finally got to the point that he could begin telling it. I met Greg in the early '70s when we were both members of the defunct National Capital Area Avanti Owners chapter. We have sort of kept in touch over the years. Several years ago I introduced Greg to Bob Johnstone and I think Bob's huge Avanti resource site got Greg going on the R-5 again.
To understand the story you have to know that Greg was/is an unbelievable restoration craftsman. He worked for White Post Restorations for years. When he left White Post it was to restore antique aircraft. An example of his ingenuity is that he hand made the engines for the Wright Flyer replicas that were commissioned for the 100th anniversary of flight in 2003.

StudeMichael
02-19-2011, 09:11 PM
Interesting:

"He has kept the R-5 story secret for many years, but finally got to the point that he could begin telling it".

trimacar
02-20-2011, 06:50 AM
Hi- what he was talking about was the story of the pieces of the R5 engine that he had stored away. The story of the R5 is, of course, well known and told. Greg didn't want anyone bothering him about the pieces that he had. He fairly recently began putting it back together, and only once he had it together, did he want to share and tell the story.

Thus, it possibly should have read "kept the story of his acquisition and reincarnation" of the R5 engine secret for years....

In another piece of trivia, the engine block he'd acquired had no serial number. In recent conversations with Granatelli, he questioned that fact. Granatelli stated that Studebaker only supplied him blocks with no serial number, as the company didn't want an engine that could be installed in a "real" car and registered for street use....best to all David Coco Winchester Va.

8E45E
02-20-2011, 07:05 AM
How many R-5/Due Cento engines were assembled in total? And how many more were made from 'spare parts'?

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9715-R5-Avanti&highlight=cento

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?30920-From-the-Archives-24-(Avanti-Bonneville)&highlight=bennett

Craig

53k
02-20-2011, 07:47 AM
Hi- what he was talking about was the story of the pieces of the R5 engine that he had stored away. The story of the R5 is, of course, well known and told. Greg didn't want anyone bothering him about the pieces that he had. He fairly recently began putting it back together, and only once he had it together, did he want to share and tell the story.

Thus, it possibly should have read "kept the story of his acquisition and reincarnation" of the R5 engine secret for years....

In another piece of trivia, the engine block he'd acquired had no serial number. In recent conversations with Granatelli, he questioned that fact. Granatelli stated that Studebaker only supplied him blocks with no serial number, as the company didn't want an engine that could be installed in a "real" car and registered for street use....best to all David Coco Winchester Va.
Excellent suggestions David. Thanks. I often leave too many things "understood" rather than stated and welcome to the Forum.

trimacar
02-20-2011, 08:41 AM
Thanks- glad to be here...I'm a follower of the AACA forum, but was disappointed to see the ho hum response there to posting of R5 engine pictures, and Greg directed me here, where, obviously, there are more interested people.

I own numerous collector cars but, alas, no Studebaker. I'm interested in owning an Avanti, as I've been around Greg for 20 plus years, and the fever is catching, just never found the right R2 for me.

Greg's interest is mainly in early brass cars, pre-1915, and he owns a beautiful 50 horsepower 1912 Stoddard Dayton, among other early cars.

It's quite a contrast, his interest, from early brass to the highest powered Studebaker.......

53k
02-20-2011, 09:05 AM
Thanks- glad to be here...I'm a follower of the AACA forum, but was disappointed to see the ho hum response there to posting of R5 engine pictures, and Greg directed me here, where, obviously, there are more interested people.

I own numerous collector cars but, alas, no Studebaker. I'm interested in owning an Avanti, as I've been around Greg for 20 plus years, and the fever is catching, just never found the right R2 for me.

Greg's interest is mainly in early brass cars, pre-1915, and he owns a beautiful 50 horsepower 1912 Stoddard Dayton, among other early cars.

It's quite a contrast, his interest, from early brass to the highest powered Studebaker.......
Greg sent me pictures of the Stoddard-Dayton several years ago. Sure points to his craftsmanship. I remember some years ago he drove his Overland from White Post to the Rockville, MD show- everyone else trailered cars much later than his.
Greg's before and later pictures of the Stoddard-Dayton. He mentioned that he had to machine the hubs and drums from billet stock.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/GregsStoddardDaytondefore.jpg

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/GregsStoddardDaytonafter.jpg

junior
02-20-2011, 09:13 AM
[QUOTE=trimacar;527986]Thanks- glad to be here...I'm a follower of the AACA forum, but was disappointed to see the ho hum response there to posting of R5 engine pictures, and Greg directed me here, where, obviously, there are more interested people.

QUOTE]

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone who likes cars as a hobby could be ho hum about a double-super-charged-fuel-injected-uber-rare-v8 that was built over 40 years ago! This thing is wild...oh well, our gain-their loss. Junior

StudeMichael
02-20-2011, 12:13 PM
This R5 engine needs to find it's way into the Duo Cento body and let loose on the Salt. Once it has proven it can do 200 mph plus it needs to go to the Museum in South Bend. It is the holy grail of Studebaker.

Bob Bryant
02-20-2011, 01:24 PM
...Greg's interest is mainly in early brass cars, pre-1915, and he owns a beautiful 50 horsepower 1912 Stoddard Dayton, among other early cars. It's quite a contrast, his interest, from early brass to the highest powered Studebaker.......

The Stoddard Dayton is an impressive brass car. An acquaintance in Florida had a 1911 seven passenger Stoddard Dayton. It was a massive car and gained a lot of attention at car shows.

trimacar
02-20-2011, 03:28 PM
Well, I don't think the engine and body will ever be "married" as long as the two guys who currently own the two pieces are still walking.

I understand over the years, they've each tried to talk the other into selling, and neither wants to let go of the piece they have!

As much as Greg would probably love to hear that engine run, it's the one case I know of with him that it'll probably end up as a museum display.........

StudeMichael
02-20-2011, 03:42 PM
Well, I don't think the engine and body will ever be "married" as long as the two guys who currently own the two pieces are still walking.

I understand over the years, they've each tried to talk the other into selling, and neither wants to let go of the piece they have!

As much as Greg would probably love to hear that engine run, it's the one case I know of with him that it'll probably end up as a museum display.........

This is sad.

PlainBrownR2
02-20-2011, 04:32 PM
For the life of me, I can't see how anyone who likes cars as a hobby could be ho hum about a double-super-charged-fuel-injected-uber-rare-v8 that was built over 40 years ago! This thing is wild...oh well, our gain-their loss. Junior
I probably could, but it's kinda weird in a "The V8 has been beaten to death", sort of way. I have a small passion with the 30's Model A's and the four cylinders, mostly because every one of those Ford products I see has been rodded, and mostly because rarely do the I ever see the cloistered stock coachwork bodies at the shows these days :p.

trimacar
02-20-2011, 05:04 PM
I can understand that some people, myself included, have been "small blocked" to death. I'd love to build a duece roadster (this from a guy who thinks that originality is sacred) with some unusual engine, a slant six comes to mind, just to be different.

With all the modern super and turbo charging, there are people who would ho hum at what was going on in the early 60's, but this engine is incredible. The fuel injection system was adapted from a helicopter engine, I believe, and Greg has those pieces.

Helped him acquire a magneto ignition system a while back, a "modern" magneto, that was part of this engine configuration also, I believe.

Also visited #9 in the Sacramento museum, looking for oil pan photos. A docent there was kind enough to let me get behind the barrier and crawl under the car, neither he nor I were comfortable about opening the hood, as it is on loan to the museum from a private owner.

One thing not seen on #9 is the secondary fuel filler set-up, appears to have the clear tube where the rear speaker would be located, but no sign of a second filler access to the gas tank. Anyone know more about that?

PlainBrownR2
02-20-2011, 07:32 PM
Oh, there's no doubt that this here engine is a real piece of history, especially among us in the Studebaker crowd :cool::cool:, and this is coming from one of those guys who's working on a modern twin turbocharged fuel injected variant for a '55 Commander :p.

8E45E
02-20-2011, 07:55 PM
Also visited #9 in the Sacramento museum, looking for oil pan photos. A docent there was kind enough to let me get behind the barrier and crawl under the car, neither he nor I were comfortable about opening the hood, as it is on loan to the museum from a private owner.

One thing not seen on #9 is the secondary fuel filler set-up, appears to have the clear tube where the rear speaker would be located, but no sign of a second filler access to the gas tank. Anyone know more about that?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4788458829_893d15c5ec_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4789109832_e665fc0c13_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4789105252_87586e21e3_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4789118638_3a80721220_b.jpg

Craig

r5duecento
02-22-2011, 09:36 PM
There was only "one" R5 engine and no spare parts.
How many R-5/Due Cento engines were assembled in total? And how many more were made from 'spare parts'?

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9715-R5-Avanti&highlight=cento

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?30920-From-the-Archives-24-(Avanti-Bonneville)&highlight=bennett

Craig

53k
02-23-2011, 11:35 AM
This evening Bob Johnstone and I are meeting Greg Cone to go see the R-5. Hopefully pictures to follow.

StudeMichael
02-23-2011, 07:44 PM
You say there were no spare parts. What is this letter from Paxton referring to?

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6181&d=1293360094

SilverHawkDan
02-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Michael,
As the letter clearly states they had two kits at the time. One kit was for the original pieces used on the Due Cento R5 that the Granatelli ran at Bonneville, minus the Bendix mechanical fuel injection system. That is the pieces you see in the pictures on this post. The second kit was for dual Paxtons (minus the superhcargers which could be purachsed separately) with an R4 manifold and carbs. Which is NOT what the origianl R5 was. The other difference in the kits is the belt drives. The R5 kit from the Due Cento used a Gilmore belt drive system as seen in the pictures in this post. They used a cog drive type belt not a "V" type belt. Kit TWO used the "V" drive type belts with matching pulleys and tensioners. As I experienced racing at El Mirage last year using Karl Sparks R5 clone (kit 2 type v drive pulleys) there is a reason that the Granatelli's used the Gilmore drive belts. We fought belt slippage at high boost pressures which limits the horsepower that the engine could produce if full boost were obtained. So it appears that there was only one "TRUE" R5 kit that was left over from the Bonneville effort of 62-63. No mention of spare or extra parts. Hope this clears the air.
Dan Sallia
The Bucket List Dream
Land Speed Racing Avanti

53k
02-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Our dream came true. This evening Bob Johnstone and I met Greg Cone and he took us to his secret location to view the R-5 engine. It isn't completely assembled as yet, but is close enough to blow your mind. The fuel lines from the fuel injector to the superchargers aren't on and the pan is off for completion now that he has seen the side view pictures (depth, type of seam and type of oil heat sensor).

Greg, left, and Bob, right admiring the engine

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20014.jpg

The magneto

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20015.jpg

Right side view

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20017.jpg

Intake manifolds

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20018.jpg

Supercharger air inlet arrangement- fuel hook-up

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20020.jpg

Left side view, lower

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20021.jpg

Left front upper view

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/Copy%20of%20Greg's%20cars%20and%20R-5%20023.jpg

8E45E
02-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Our dream came true. This evening Bob Johnstone and I met Greg Cone and he took us to his secret location to view the R-5 engine. It isn't completely assembled as yet, but is close enough to blow your mind.

STUNNING!!!

Craig

BobPalma
02-23-2011, 09:15 PM
woo-hoo! bp

53k
02-23-2011, 10:16 PM
Bob Johnstone has posted his R-5 pictures to his Studebaker Resource Website. He has more pictures than I posted to the Forum and his are more detailed and clearer. Take a look- http://www.studebaker-info.org/avdb/duecento/230211/dc230211.html
For that matter, if you aren't familiar with his website, here's a chance to check it out, terrific resource for all of us- http://www.studebaker-info.org/

8E45E
02-23-2011, 11:02 PM
Will the engine and car that it came in ever be together again?

Or will it end up like this? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?46510-226K-eBay-63-LeMans-update&highlight=lemans :(

Craig

silverhawk
02-23-2011, 11:39 PM
That is a incredable engine, great to hear it is back together :D

53k
02-24-2011, 07:34 AM
Will the engine and car that it came in ever be together again?

Or will it end up like this? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?46510-226K-eBay-63-LeMans-update&highlight=lemans :(

Craig
Not a chance. Greg does nothing but 100% authentic. He is talking museum. Apparently Granatellis have expressed interest in putting it in their museum (if it even exists), but I have encouraged talking to Andy Beckman at some point.

Bob Bryant
02-24-2011, 09:39 AM
The museum honoring Granatelli in Auburn is apparently completed. Probably, most people are already aware of its existence. Andy was looking for additional display items. The owner of the engine will rightfully decide where he wants it. FYI

http://mrindy500museum.net/granatelli/news

trimacar
02-26-2011, 05:44 AM
Note in the pictures the magneto distributor, a rare piece in and of itself.....if it's not meant to be, as far as joining the engine and body of the DC, then the museum route is the only way to go.......

bezhawk
02-26-2011, 08:34 AM
Pistons are on the way to make this a runable engine. From what I have gathered, the R5 engine was basically an R3 underneath.

jlmccuan
02-26-2011, 02:49 PM
If you get the chance, check out the lengthy threads of Greg's other work posted to the AACA forums by UnimogJohn. His work is very nice and he has several projects just as nice as this effort.

53k
02-26-2011, 02:56 PM
Pistons are on the way to make this a runable engine. From what I have gathered, the R5 engine was basically an R3 underneath.
Actually, the R-5 pistons were slightly different from stock R-3 pistons. This is from information Greg received- "The R5 pistons were lower on one side of the top surface, giving a compression ratio of about 8 1/2 to 1. Stock R3 pistons had a flat top." The disposition of the R-5 pistons is a story in itself, but can't be told for now.

Mr Speed 53
02-27-2011, 07:34 PM
I have an R3 engine number B109 that was bought by George Krem around 1969 then installed in my 63 Avanti. George told me that when he ordered the engine and they told him it was the last one to be assembled with genuine R3 heads and had the pistons from the R5 in it. At one point George did pull off one of the heads and told me the pistons are dished , the heads also have a low cc stamped on them. Ed

R3 challenger
02-27-2011, 08:35 PM
Ed is correct. I spoke with Joe Granatelli in the fall of 1969, and he told me that the last genuine R3 engine they could put together would have to have the R5 pistons, since they were out of R3 pistons. I bought it and installed it in '63 Avanti R-3371, which Ed now owns. After several years, the engine needed a valve job. When I pulled the heads, I found that Joe Granatelli had been accurate....the pistons were not flat-top like stock R3 pistons. Slightly less than one-half of the top surface was lowered to lower the CR to about 8.5 to 1. The pistons do not have a circular dish like stock 289 pistons.

So apparently Ed's engine has the original R5 pistons unless there was another set, which is certainly possible. However, Joe G. spoke as though those particular pistons were the original R5 pistons. I still have the original Paxton invoice.

George

8E45E
02-27-2011, 08:45 PM
HOW AWESOME IT WOULD BE TO SEE ALL THESE ORIGINAL ENGINE PARTS ROUNDED UP AND COME BACK TOGETHER WITH EX-2924 BODY AND ALL FOR ONE LAST TRIP ON THE SALT FLATS TO FULFILL ANDY'S WISH OF ACHIEVING 200 MPH SO THIS ENGINE CAN LIVE UP TO ITS NAME!!!

Craig

53k
03-06-2011, 11:19 AM
Piston info-
Greg received the NOS R-3 pistons from Bezhawk in great shape. He made a comparison with a R-4 piston he had-

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/R-3,%20R-4%20pistons%201.jpg

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/R-3,%20R-4%20pistons%202.jpg

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Cone%20cars/R-3,%20R-4%20pistons%203.jpg

Greg's measurements and observations-

"
Forgedtrue R-3 R-4
Top flat domed
Compression distance 1.601 1.607 less dome
Deck minimum thickness .285 .170
Weight with pin and rings 674 gr. 683 gr.

note: not relieved at pin milled at pin
shorter skirt"

This did not display as the way it should. The first terms and measurements are for the R-3 and the second set for the R-4 (for example, flat refers to R-3, domed refers to R-4).

bezhawk
03-06-2011, 11:36 AM
All I need now, for the R3, is the correct supercharger inlet elbow. Jim McCuan is working on reproducing some.
I was glad to trade out to Greg for the R3 fan and some headlight bezels for an R1 I'm also restoring.
I'm tearing into the front suspension on Loewys Avanti.

tomhoo
03-10-2011, 04:35 PM
I was really disappointed that at the Andy Granatelli Museum web site, under "Successes" there is absolutely no mention of Studebaker or Avanti at Bonneville in 1963. From the actual website:

· 1967 ASTOUNDED AUTO-RACING WORLD WITH MOST CREATIVE AND FUTURISTIC STP Turbine racecar #40- arguablythe most famous race car in history, which was completely Granatelli built and designed - on display in Smithsonian Institute in Washington, D.C. (Over 30,000 articles written worldwide.)
· 1963 Set 357 World Land Speed records on the Bonneville Salt Flats, for details read Andy’s autobiography “They Call Me Mr. 500”
· 1961 Athlete of the Month Award: Santa Monica Junior Chamber of Commerce, “Land speed record—fastest speed ever recorded by NASCAR on Daytona Beach.”
· 1945*–1960 resume available upon request. Includes designing & building the Prototype Chrysler 300, Cadillac Eldorado and Avanti R series engines.
Depressing...

studefan
03-10-2011, 06:21 PM
I think the second bullet covers the Stude Bonneville records also and the last bullet mentions the Avanti R engines.

tomhoo
03-12-2011, 02:53 PM
Yes, the 2nd bullet does cover the Studebaker records, so why did he obviously leave the word "Studebaker" out?

Also, regarding the prototype engines he "designed and built," he mentions Make & Model for Chrysler and Cadillac, but for the Studebaker Avanti he leaves the Studebaker out.

I'm sure he wants to be remembered as Mr. 500 and lets face it, while under contract with Studebaker in an effort to shore up the marque, the company failed. Not exactly a "Success" maybe.
________________

EDIT: Maybe I side with Andy a little on this. Studebaker goes to him and offers him a strategic position in their high performance program. I'm sure he was thinking this would be a lasting endeavor rather than just a flash in the pan followed by termination. I wonder what they really promised him off the record...

StudeMichael
03-12-2011, 03:16 PM
Most guys that know Andy will tell you he is a big ego and like most guys with a big ego it is all about them. Doesn't make him a bad guy but it will lead to him getting the credit when he erects a museum for his glory.

tomhoo
03-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Has anyone every been to this museum? Is there anything from the old Studebaker/Avanti/Bonneville days there?

silverhawk1958
07-03-2011, 09:58 AM
Just stumbled onto this thread, not sure how I missed it. Thanks for all the pictures, that engine is amazing. Anyone have any more pictures of details on that second supercharger mount? Doesn't look too difficult to reproduce.

Thanks-matt

Green53
10-07-2011, 11:11 PM
I belive the Granatelli museum in Auburn is closed. The contents have been moved to Indianapolis from what I understand. I will have more details later.

Denny L