Champ Tranny Questions

[erjost]

I have a 60 Champ 5E6 that has a 170 OHV (I know its the wrong engine) and 4 on the floor. It is pretty wrapped out at 70 so I am looking at options to get it geared better. I would like to get overdrive in it but all I have seen of overdrive is on the column or the 5 speed on the floor. I have a 59 lark with 3 on the column and overdrive but converting to the column I assume would be complicated and it is on a flathead so I don't know if it would even work. I am also considering hunting down a 245 like its supposed to have. I need to look in the diff to see its ratio. It doesn't have a tag on it so I might do that this weekend. What are my options to get overdrive for either engine and if I do re-gear what do I need to know to get the right gears? Thanks in advance.

1949 2R15 with a 16 cab.
1960 5E6 Champ

[Roscomacaw]

Well, the tranny in the lark probably won't bolt up and it's an inferior tranny than the 3-spdOD transes that the trucks used behind that six. There's no easy way shy of finding the appropriate 3-spd and associated column, linkage, etc, AND bellhousing!
If you DID find a tranny, bellhousing, etc., that would work behind the existing 6, you could use an aftermarket floor shifter and avoid the column/linkage switch. If it were me, I'd be looking for that Big Six setup. That would be a great driveline for your truck!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

[Roscomacaw]

Well, the tranny in the lark probably won't bolt up and it's an inferior tranny than the 3-spdOD transes that the trucks used behind that six. There's no easy way shy of finding the appropriate 3-spd and associated column, linkage, etc, AND bellhousing!
If you DID find a tranny, bellhousing, etc., that would work behind the existing 6, you could use an aftermarket floor shifter and avoid the column/linkage switch. If it were me, I'd be looking for that Big Six setup. That would be a great driveline for your truck!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

[erjost]

I wondered if the 245 being a flathead was better than the OHV. I guess it wins by displacement. Can I get the overdrive with the 245 or do I need it? I would be a little scared to tackle an engine swap I am not a car mechanic. There is always the problem of finding one too but I guess I'll put my name on the list for looking for a 245 and tranny that can move this down the road.

1949 2R15 with a 16 cab.
1960 5E6 Champ

[erjost]

I wondered if the 245 being a flathead was better than the OHV. I guess it wins by displacement. Can I get the overdrive with the 245 or do I need it? I would be a little scared to tackle an engine swap I am not a car mechanic. There is always the problem of finding one too but I guess I'll put my name on the list for looking for a 245 and tranny that can move this down the road.

1949 2R15 with a 16 cab.
1960 5E6 Champ

[rockinhawk]

I once owned an orange 59 scotsman picup with a flat6 with OD and a4.27 gear. I wanted to go faster so I put the gears out of a Hawk they are 3.53. It works OK, but it is a little high for the OD. Work well with the cable pulled out. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.

[rockinhawk]

I once owned an orange 59 scotsman picup with a flat6 with OD and a4.27 gear. I wanted to go faster so I put the gears out of a Hawk they are 3.53. It works OK, but it is a little high for the OD. Work well with the cable pulled out. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.

[gordr]

quote:Originally posted by erjost

I wondered if the 245 being a flathead was better than the OHV. I guess it wins by displacement. Can I get the overdrive with the 245 or do I need it? I would be a little scared to tackle an engine swap I am not a car mechanic. There is always the problem of finding one too but I guess I'll put my name on the list for looking for a 245 and tranny that can move this down the road.

1949 2R15 with a 16 cab.
1960 5E6 Champ

The 245 wins by displacement, and it is a very durable design, too. The OHV six was a conversion of the flathead six Champion engine, and the head is not all it could be.

You will still need an overdrive. Without changing rear end gears, either engine will do the same RPM at a given road speed.

You want to get a T85 transmission with overdrive. That SHOULD bolt up to your existing truck bellhousing.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[gordr]

quote:Originally posted by erjost

I wondered if the 245 being a flathead was better than the OHV. I guess it wins by displacement. Can I get the overdrive with the 245 or do I need it? I would be a little scared to tackle an engine swap I am not a car mechanic. There is always the problem of finding one too but I guess I'll put my name on the list for looking for a 245 and tranny that can move this down the road.

1949 2R15 with a 16 cab.
1960 5E6 Champ

The 245 wins by displacement, and it is a very durable design, too. The OHV six was a conversion of the flathead six Champion engine, and the head is not all it could be.

You will still need an overdrive. Without changing rear end gears, either engine will do the same RPM at a given road speed.

You want to get a T85 transmission with overdrive. That SHOULD bolt up to your existing truck bellhousing.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Dwain G.]

Has anyone hooked up a T-5 behind a Stude six yet?


Dwain G.

[Dwain G.]

Has anyone hooked up a T-5 behind a Stude six yet?


Dwain G.

[Roscomacaw]

The 245 has got low end torque to spare! But as gord says, it's not gonna do anything for your RPM/Speed dilemma. An O/D is the only thing that let's you have it both ways - low speed torque for pulling - decent RPM/Economy at modern road speeds!

A T-85 would be nice, but they only used those behind V8s. The big and little 6 worked thru a T-86 in trucks. The tranny in your Lark is a T-96 and it's too puny for anything requiring real work. Besides, there's bellhousing, linkage and driveshaft issues to tackle.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

[Roscomacaw]

The 245 has got low end torque to spare! But as gord says, it's not gonna do anything for your RPM/Speed dilemma. An O/D is the only thing that let's you have it both ways - low speed torque for pulling - decent RPM/Economy at modern road speeds!

A T-85 would be nice, but they only used those behind V8s. The big and little 6 worked thru a T-86 in trucks. The tranny in your Lark is a T-96 and it's too puny for anything requiring real work. Besides, there's bellhousing, linkage and driveshaft issues to tackle.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

[studegary]

You don't need to "look in the diff to see its ratio." Jack up the rear end, mark a wheel and a spot on the driveshaft. Count the number of rotations of one relative to the other and divide them to get the ratio. Of course, whether or not the differential is a Twin Traction will alter the procedure, but this will become obvious as you proceed.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

[studegary]

You don't need to "look in the diff to see its ratio." Jack up the rear end, mark a wheel and a spot on the driveshaft. Count the number of rotations of one relative to the other and divide them to get the ratio. Of course, whether or not the differential is a Twin Traction will alter the procedure, but this will become obvious as you proceed.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)