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StudeMichael
06-22-2010, 08:00 PM
Is this for real?

http://tinyurl.com/3ao8epx

63r2
06-22-2010, 08:12 PM
I don't know but it does tick a few boxes.
If it is the case then a very historical car.
pb

mbstude
06-22-2010, 08:22 PM
Yes, it's for real. Built by O'Chapp's Body Works and commissioned by Studebaker. The guy selling it bought a Packard 352 engine from my Granddad a year or so ago.

It's a lot like the Avanti-inspired prototypes. Absolutely hideous but it does have historical significance.

bams50
06-22-2010, 08:23 PM
I know this car has been discussed before, as I remember the name O'Chapp's Body Works. I believe it is legit. I'm sure Matthew knew about this car.

It's pretty rough, but if any car would be worth a ground-up resto, this would be it- right up there with the Frua Larks!

bams50
06-22-2010, 08:24 PM
LOL! You beat me, Matthew:o

showbizkid
06-22-2010, 08:39 PM
These are the best photos we've seen of it yet! Previously all we had were the pix from the barn. Boy, there's a lot of interesting stuff here.

- I sure am glad they didn't go with that deck treatment. It makes the rear look lopped off - not in harmony with the front of the car at all.
- I didn't see or notice the Nash-style fresh air intake above the hood before. Wow - that was at least 3 years out of date, stylistically, when the project was undertaken.
- What's with that roof seam? They couldn't have welded the two halves together instead of screwing that big strip down the middle of the roof?

It's obvious the person who has it now isn't a Stude enthusiast, although he knows what he has. It'll be interesting to see what the car goes for.

dak63R1
06-22-2010, 09:05 PM
I saw this car probably 25 years ago in Ball Ground GA and it was rough then.
Owned by Sammy Howell, I believe.

Chris_Dresbach
06-22-2010, 09:46 PM
I remember this. I posted this same car as eye cabbage a few months ago and Ed Reynolds told me that this was in no way a prototype. Heck, I don't care, it's cool! :D

Nelsen Motorsports
06-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Looks like all from a 53-64 put together. Brooks Stevens does not mix well with Bob Bourke.

Warren Webb
06-23-2010, 04:03 AM
The prototype Hawk I remember seeing in magazines back in the day had a grille shell that had the name Studebaker across the front upper edge of the shell. Among many other things this one looks to have a regular production shell with a 62 Lark mesh insert. Also in Brooks Stevens original drawings, it is shown without fins, which was noted as a cost savings right off the bat.

52-fan
06-23-2010, 10:08 AM
It would seem strange that the factory would not have used a later Hawk a starting point. The deck lid/rear treatment is horrible and probably the result of someone having some parts laying around.

JBOYLE
06-23-2010, 10:40 AM
Is it just me or does the rear quarter panel (as seen from the rear quarter view) look very early 60s Rambler-ish?

Jessie J.
06-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Kind of a strange, crude, and awkward prototype, Wonder if it can be documented as to just when it was completed? Would it have been before Brooks Steven's oft shown 'cardboard' mock-up for the '62 GT restyle?
Could this have served as his 'inspiration'? As is, it certainly falls far short of the clean style and execution that are the hallmark of Stevens work, or that of any professional automotive designer.

studegary
06-23-2010, 01:47 PM
He lists the serial number as starting with "4H-K". This is probably from the body tag. If so, the car started as a 1953 Commander Starliner.
This car was built in a South Bend body shop and I do not consider it to be a prototype. It is an interesting car.

StudHawk60
06-23-2010, 02:04 PM
I need to figure out how to add "smilies" within a message, I need to add "puke."

bams50
06-23-2010, 02:18 PM
I need to figure out how to add "smilies" within a message, I need to add "puke."

You mean like http://serve.mysmiley.net/sick/sick0021.gif ? <G>

I don't think it's that bad, but not my ideal either. Looks like any test mule any manufacturer builds- a work in progress. If it was an authentic Studebaker-built or commisioned prototype like the Avanti-styled prototypes just unearthed I'm guessing the SNM would be all over it; in fact I'd bet it wouldn't have languished as a known but neglected car all this time. If it's not a real part of Studebaker's history, it's probably not worth a plug-nickel.

I guess the definition of 'prototype' isn't as simple as it would first appear...

bige
06-23-2010, 02:40 PM
I'm thinking that the roof is actually a 58-60 T Bird grafted on. The backlight is the same angle as a T Bird and not as slanted as a Hawk's. Pictures show an outline of an additional roof and the view from front to rear looking at the quarter windows the sail panels look a little too wide in relation to the quarters.

And the weird decklid is an attempt to match the squared bottom on the T Bird glass.

So did Studebaker go to an outside company to throw something together with existing parts before going the whole clay model prototype route or is this a custom gone bad?

ErnieR135913601361

sbca96
06-23-2010, 04:11 PM
And it eventually turned into this .. I guess you have to start somewhere......

http://image.hotrod.com/f/classicpowercars/8037555+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1962-studebaker-hawk-1962-studebaker-gt-hawk-drivers.jpg

http://image.hotrod.com/f/classicpowercars/7841867+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1962-studebaker-hawk-rear-view-1962-studebaker-gt-hawk.jpg

Tom

showbizkid
06-23-2010, 09:10 PM
Yeah, the more I see this car, the less it looks like a proto and instead like a custom thrown together for someone else by the same shop that might have done the proto.

bams50
06-23-2010, 09:18 PM
And it eventually turned into this .. I guess you have to start somewhere......

http://image.hotrod.com/f/classicpowercars/8037555+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1962-studebaker-hawk-1962-studebaker-gt-hawk-drivers.jpg



My goodness, I love GTs in redhttp://serve.mysmiley.net/love/love0001.gif

Ron Dame
06-24-2010, 05:45 PM
I saw this car probably 25 years ago in Ball Ground GA and it was rough then.
Owned by Sammy Howell, I believe.

I saw it on a used car lot on South Cobb Parkway (south of the Big Chicken, and near the Lazy L Ranch) in May-retta in the late '70's. I got a transmission for my '62 Hawk out of the trunk for $25. And it worked!

It seems to me it was about the same price then as it is now, and not that much worse AFAIR.

Ron Dame
06-24-2010, 05:49 PM
That cowl is awful, but what is with the roof?

StudeMichael
06-24-2010, 11:31 PM
Found this on Bob Johnstone's site:

http://www.studebaker-info.org/uniq/62gttest/62gttest.html

StudeMichael
06-24-2010, 11:39 PM
This link has a lot of info. It appears this car is an early Studebaker commissioned prototype without a doubt:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/archive/index.php?t-35049.html

Warren Webb
06-25-2010, 01:28 PM
The norm at the time was to do a styling study first in clay which photos were then taken, usually in the engineering building. First of all I cannot see Studebaker not doing a prototype in house with the people that did such a thing. Second, there is nothin gained in such a cobbled up monsrocity as this is. The GT program was a rush job that Egbert started right when he took the presidency in January 61 by all accounts. It has been recorded by various sources that he was told it would take 2 years for a restyle to be done but he put a priority on it so it was completed by the intro of the 62 models that Sept.

StudeMichael
06-27-2010, 08:21 PM
Someone bought it for the opening bid of $3,500.00

woodysrods
06-28-2010, 03:05 AM
I just want to know how Bams50 got those great icons to appear? and in the right place too???
Good Roads
Brian
PS I would have guessed that his car was just a bad attempt at updating what was once a Beautiful Car!

bams50
06-28-2010, 04:25 AM
I just want to know how Bams50 got those great icons to appear? and in the right place too???


The flag and text in the sig. line were there before the change to the new forum and they transferred over, just had to clean up a little punctuation that didn't transfer right. The red Daytona icon, not sure really, but I did that the first day of the new forum; I just went to 'settings' and used that picture from my files.

I have found that not everyone sees the same thing in their 'settings' area; don't know if it's browser, or computer, or OS differences.

Samjoe
06-28-2010, 06:21 PM
I myself do believe it was a prototype for the 62-64 Hawk. But what I am amazed at , is this car was clearly driven and hard. Look at the rust under the drivers well area. I can see daylight through there. And what did Studebaker let the prototype mules be sold to the general public. I would have figured they would be like the few lark prototypes and just kept on the premises, or even the "Proving Ground Boneyard".

Welcome
06-28-2010, 07:53 PM
I myself do believe it was a prototype for the 62-64 Hawk. But what I am amazed at , is this car was clearly driven and hard. Look at the rust under the drivers well area. I can see daylight through there. And what did Studebaker let the prototype mules be sold to the general public. I would have figured they would be like the few lark prototypes and just kept on the premises, or even the "Proving Ground Boneyard".

Perhaps those answers could be found in knowing Louie O’Chap’s "Thunder-hawk" (as he called it) was NOT a Studebaker Corporation "prototype" ...nor was his '54 Studebaker K-body he cut the top off to make his version of a "convertible" ...nor was his '60 Studebaker Lark Wagon he added his version of a "sliding roof" to.

Remember, in addition to the usual body shop repair stuff, Louie O'Chap bought and rebuilt wrecks. And where better to find more Studebaker wrecks cheap …you got it, right here around South Bend! Other notable “Studebaker” accomplishments Louie and his ace #1 bodyman, Bill Kiefer, are credited with are making "patch-panels" for ’47-’52 Studes and “patch-stepwells” for 2R Series trucks.

8E45E
06-28-2010, 08:25 PM
To confuse the issue some, Brooks Stevens did some cardboard roof mockups on a de-finned '60 Hawk, and added some chrome foil trim:


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4743837549_45be9c3d30_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4744475504_e695aa72b7_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4743838019_61f4091fd5_b.jpg

The ACTUAL '62 prototype photo is found in lots of publications. It has the round parking lights instead of the rectangular ones, and has 'Studebaker' on the chrome grille surround. This car was based on these conceptual drawings:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4745291978_ce23e15451_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4744653301_e91f0eb5fe_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4744653671_fcb609f422_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4745292960_185829c606_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4744654237_0c1819cc2e_b.jpg

Craig

woodysrods
06-28-2010, 10:37 PM
The flag and text in the sig. line were there before the change to the new forum and they transferred over, just had to clean up a little punctuation that didn't transfer right. The red Daytona icon, not sure really, but I did that the first day of the new forum; I just went to 'settings' and used that picture from my files.

I have found that not everyone sees the same thing in their 'settings' area; don't know if it's browser, or computer, or OS differences.

Thanks Bob
I now have an Avitar!
Good Roads
Brian

studegary
06-29-2010, 08:44 PM
Thank you "Welcome" and Craig/"8E45E" for supporting my position that the subject car is not a Studebaker prototype.

Criag - The first pictures in your post, showing the cardboard roof car, show rear quarter "fins" that are very similar to what Bob Bourke made for his own 1954 Starliner.