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JDP
07-06-2006, 09:05 PM
Posted by Paul on the NG:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ230005283492QQihZ013QQcategoryZ6466QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

Guido
07-06-2006, 09:27 PM
Looks like a good one to join the likes of the Chicken Hawk, the Tomato or the Plain Brown Wrapper.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 7E-7 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"
Hiding Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

Transtar56
07-06-2006, 11:31 PM
Be interesting to see what kind of times it would get if Ted Harbit were to give it a run.

tstclr
07-07-2006, 09:31 AM
Do you think he will reach his starting bid?
Todd

63 Lark 2dr Sedan

Roscomacaw
07-07-2006, 11:42 AM
Wow![:0][:p]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

JDP
07-07-2006, 12:37 PM
Even though the blower alone cost him 10K, I still don't think he will get a bid. Studebaker folks that would love the car are too cheap.:)


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

ddub
07-07-2006, 12:44 PM
I like it a lot. The Champ grill gives it a no-nonsense, muscular look. What fun. Where's my lottery ticket?

Don Wilson
53 Commander Hardtop
64 Champ 1/2 ton
Centralia, WA

PackardV8
07-07-2006, 01:31 PM
You are too modest, JDP. The way the description is written/not written will put off many who might consider buying it. If you were selling it, no doubt in my mind it would bring the asking opening.

PackardV8

imported_n/a
07-07-2006, 02:03 PM
It just goes to show that you can go fast without a HITH or 20" wheels.:)

Commander51
07-07-2006, 02:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

You are too modest, JDP. The way the description is written/not written will put off many who might consider buying it. If you were selling it, no doubt in my mind it would bring the asking opening.

PackardV8


Just curious, what is the error of omission/comission in the ad, in your opinion?? I'm a strictly-stock kind of guy, so I'm missing it, I'm sure....

51 Commander State Sedan

Kittanning, PA

PackardV8
07-07-2006, 02:38 PM
Actually, looks like a really nice car. It's all opinion here, but too bad this "eBay expert" didn't give it a less crapola, more facts writeup. IMHO, anyone really interested in a serious build-up such as this one, wants to know and be able to brag later about the details inside, for example: "Venolia custom 3.625" pistons," or custom Carillo 6.75" rods." To say "the machinist would probably shoot me for giving away his technical knowledge/professional tricks!" is just the worst kind of cop-out.

Dead end hyperbole, such as, "the car easily ran in the 13ís . . . but could do much better." "the dyno run only went up to 5,000 RPM and the horsepower number obviously would be much higher over the 5,000 RPM mark." couldda, shouldda, wouldda never won any races. It does it or it doesn't.

Vague generalities, like "Ford top-loader 4-speed transmission with proper gearing," just makes a real gearhead crazy. What are the ratios? What gear is in the Ford 9"? If the seller doesn't know the easy stuff, how much confidence would a prospective buyer have in the rest of the fluff stuff?

Too bad, as this car would probably sell on its merits and really seems to deserve less hype and more straight-shootin' Studebaker tech talk. Understanding this is why JDP sells more Studes on line than anyone in the world.

PackardV8

imported_n/a
07-07-2006, 03:26 PM
I have to agree that though this car appear to be a really sharp, hard-core Studebaker performance enthusiasts' car, the wordy description has far too much hyperbole, and does not relay enough basic information about what has been done with the car. As Joe Friday used to say: "Just the facts, ma'am", and let the car sell itself.

JDP
07-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Well, I will admit a good write up goes a long way. I've often bought car with a crappy listing and flipped them at a profit with little more then a rewrite.
Most often, the key to turning a profit for me is to fix the stupid stuff rather then list them as defects. i.e. "Car pops out of first and overdrive does not engage." is replaced with "Installed new shift tube and overdrive relay so the car shifts like a dream and cruises at freeway speeds in overdrive."
If I were selling that Lark, I'd list everything that was done in detail and how much was spent.


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

Guido
07-07-2006, 05:14 PM
If I was spending 1000's of dollars to have a street rod built, I would want to know what every penny was spent on and why. Seems like a lot of hype to me and anyone that is going to put up that type of money will want documantation to back up his claims. It also seems odd that he has averaged less than 200 miles a year in the car if it is so great and it was built specifically for him. I suspect it will pass from e-bay without a bid nor any answers posted to the questions that he is probably receiving.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 7E-7 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"
Hiding Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

StudeDave57
07-09-2006, 01:34 AM
I have a few comments on this one~
1) My birthday was just the other day...
2) I feel like maybe I now know what I want...
3) I own a car that I would LOVE to build up in this manner...
4) anyone wanna help me out??? [:0] :D :) ;)

[8D]

StudeDave
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

stude freak
07-09-2006, 07:00 AM
Sure StudeDave57 . I'll help ya out.Did you blow out all the candles on the cake? If so, problem solved. Happy Birthday Dave:D;)

David Baggett Mantachie,Ms.

ceecab
07-09-2006, 09:28 AM
I've talked to Jerry Hawk. the owner, many times while he was building that car, although this was the first time I had seen it, and mostly he spent most of those times telling me about everything he was having done, but nothing about the actual car other than being a Lark
I thought the project died. since I never hear anymore about it
I will say that it's probably very well done though judging from the past Studes he's owned

Thomas63R2
07-09-2006, 03:56 PM
I like this Lark, but I'm not quite signed on to the idea of it being "wild". A 13.99 e.t. would be "in" the 13's (we really don't know where in the 13's this car ran), which kinda doesn't compute with 450 hp / 500 tq, even if it were a mid 13 e.t. Especially with what should be a sub 3,000 lb car. In a past incarnation of one of my El Caminos I ran 13.1x e.t.'s @ 105+ mph all day long - this was leaving it in drive to upshift at 4,200 rpm, with 3.08 gears and 245 street radials. It had a pump gas naturally aspirated 406 that made less than 450 hp, and in a car that should weigh ~ 500 lbs more than that Lark. The new Corvette Z06, with 505 hp and 3,100 lbs of car weight runs in the upper 11's at ~ 125 mph. The Lark is no where near as aerodynamic, but at that power level and likely weight, speeds in the upper 110's, closing in on 120 mph, should be the norm.

Maybe this Lark still needs a bit of sorting out to run like it should for that power level and weight. I hope some others try this Whipple Charger, from what I've seen it is a very well made piece.

Thomas

New Stude guy! Long time hot rodder
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed with interesting plans

Randy_G
07-09-2006, 10:02 PM
I'm going out on a limb here, Larks didnt come equipted with V-8's did they?? they were more of a 6 cylinder econobox, this is part of my Stude 101 learning curve so be kind.


Randy- www.automotivehistoryonline.com

www.automotivehistroyonline.com

Roscomacaw
07-09-2006, 10:08 PM
Look out, Randy! That limb's about to sna.............. ouch! [:0]

Larks had either or - and while there WAS an "economy slant" to their initial push, the V8s were just about as economical as the 6. ;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studegary
07-09-2006, 10:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by Randy_G

I'm going out on a limb here, Larks didnt come equipted with V-8's did they?? they were more of a 6 cylinder econobox, this is part of my Stude 101 learning curve so be kind.


Randy- www.automotivehistoryonline.com

www.automotivehistroyonline.com


I have owned about 30 Lark type Studebakers and every one of them was factory equipped with an OHV V-8.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Thomas63R2
07-10-2006, 01:06 AM
Randy, I'm pretty sure that in all years of the Lark you had a choice of getting a Lark VI or Lark VIII. It seems that the 259 V8 was about as economical as the flathead inline 6's plus they were much more fun to drive, that's what test reports of the day seemed to indicate. The 259 V8 was very economical - but that 300+ cube supercharged variation in the eBay ad probably is not a fuel mileage champ anymore! The OHV inline six turned the tables, but by the time of its release Lark sales had really declinded.

Thomas

New Stude guy! Long time hot rodder
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed with interesting plans

Randy_G
07-10-2006, 07:09 PM
I appreciate the bit of history lesson guys, thats why I joined. By the time my intrest in cars was realized the Studebaker Car Company was long gone. thanks again!

Randy

www.automotivehistroyonline.com

N8N
07-10-2006, 07:26 PM
quote:
Larks had either or - and while there WAS an "economy slant" to their initial push,

No, Bob, that was Chrysler :P

nate

(been there, drove that)

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
07-10-2006, 08:43 PM
Hey Nate! I've had 2 slant 6s thru the years (not in Larks of course!) and they were good engines.[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

StudeDave57
07-15-2006, 12:31 PM
Interesting~ not a single bid as yet... ;)

[8D]

StudeDave
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

PackardV8
07-15-2006, 01:13 PM
Even more telling, he hasn't posted answers to the probably twenty or more questions he must have received about such a specialized car. As noted above, clear details and specifications are the key to a sale like this.

Secondly, having a starting bid of $21,000 is questionable eBay tactics, at best. Most sellers feel starting low and getting several bidders involved at a lower level keeps up the interest.

One re-seller I know always starts low and has a half-dozen friends and relatives making shill bids to make it look like a hotly contested auction. Every once in a while, he has to "buy back" his own car and pay eBay an extra few dollars. More often than not, this technique, which is as old as auctions, works for him and he sells at his price.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

JDP
07-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Shill bidding is a major no-no on ebay, just report him and ebay will do the rest. (Usually a verbal warning if it's a minor infraction, but having a bunch of shills will get him suspended ASAP)
I even got a warning just for posting my reserve on the News Group since it gives "Information to a select group not available to all bidders"

Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
51 Commander

Guido
07-15-2006, 04:46 PM
I got an auctioneer fined here in Virginia for taking shills. I determined that if he had his hand open, he had no bidder, but if he made a fist, there was a bidder. What first tipped me off was that he was taking bids in my area but none of us were bidding. Also telling the clerk to "put it on number 486" when there were no other attendees close to that number.

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 7E-7 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"
Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

PackardV8
07-17-2006, 12:19 PM
eBay has gotten so large with so few employees, they only react to the most egregious violations. To prove shill bidding takes so much research and even then, is not always clear-cut.

They won't even bother to go after sellers who waste our time by using the infamous "NOT a Studebaker, Packard" listing jerk off.

Back to the topic which started this, the seller really wasted his time and money by rambling on in the description, by having too high a starting bid, by not answering questions. A good car went unsold.

PackardV8

Roscomacaw
07-17-2006, 12:41 PM
Of course, with this Lark - who knows? But I wonder if some cars aren't run with ridiculous reserves so that it can be "bid" to some high-buck amount to support valuation for insurance or just appraisal values.

JDP, anyone ??? Think this happens? Think an insurance company would bite? [:o)][?]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

bams50
07-17-2006, 03:19 PM
With my insurance on my Lincoln (Hagerty) they just asked for one picture and what I wanted the insured value to be; they just said okay, and figured the premium on the "agreed-upon" value:

65 Lincoln Convertible
Agreed value: $20,000
Premium (year): $167
No mileage limitation- just had to prove I owned at least 1 other licensed vehicle

Have any of you had trouble getting your ins. co. to agree on value?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Laemmle
07-17-2006, 07:34 PM
As they say in Gotham....this guy plays with his "glans"........end of story...........