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JDP
07-06-2006, 02:25 PM
Gee, just learned we were wrong about who designed the Avanti:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290004874407

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64 Daytona HT
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64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

glen
07-06-2006, 03:42 PM
John....who?????



Glen Brose
Chino Valley, AZ
53 Champion Tudr Sedan

mbstude
07-06-2006, 03:48 PM
John Ebstein was one of the guys that work for Leowy on the Avanti project.

http://www.theavanti.com/Ebstein.html




Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut.
South Georgia Chapter Newsletter Editor
63 Daytona HT (project, OHV 6 engine, soon to have dual exhaust)
51 2R16 dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)(will trade for another Stude <g>)
MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars.
Click my name and check out "Links".

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/rainyday.jpg

Scott
07-06-2006, 04:15 PM
That's right. The guy isn't really fibbing. It was a collaborative effort. I think Ebstein was the last member of the design team to pass away.

JDP
07-06-2006, 04:42 PM
But the car was pretty much "designed" before that team was formed.John was part of the design team, but I've never seen him credited with the design of the Avanti.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
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64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
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63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

glen
07-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Well ok....Just as long as there is no
"revisionist" history going on here...

Glen Brose
Chino Valley, AZ
53 Champion Tudr Sedan

JBOYLE
07-06-2006, 05:16 PM
If it is such an important car, I wonder why someone "restored" it in something other than its original color?


Also, what's with the "Avanti" script on the console?
I've never seen that before. A prototype thing or a bit of custom work?

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JDP
07-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Lot's of wrong stuff on a nice car. looks like they covered a plate with padded vinyl and stuck the script on it. I feel the same way about that as the speakers mounted in the door of the Avanti I just posted. Both can be fixed, but why do it in the first place.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
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64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

studegary
07-06-2006, 10:13 PM
Tom Kellogg, Bob Andrews and John Ebstein were the design team assembled by Loewy for the Avanti project. Ebstein was project coordinator of the Avanti project and a VP of the Loewy organization in NY. When I discussed the Avanti with Ebstein, I got the impression that he had a lot more to do with the design than he is given credit for or that he took credit for. Of course, the owner of a company, Loewy in this case, always takes/gets credit for what those that work for him do. For example, I own one of the drawings from the Palm Springs Avanti design house. It is pretty certain that it was done by Kellogg, but it is signed by Loewy.

Gary L.
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

bams50
07-07-2006, 03:38 PM
Yeah, I remember working on that; lots of fun...

I was actually the lead designer, but Loewy and Studebaker felt it wouldn't be prudent to give me proper credit... and I was in no position to argue- really undeveloped bargaining skills- being I was born in 1961......:D

It's kind of cool to see my name involved, even if it was no relation of mine...[^]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

JDP
07-07-2006, 04:23 PM
Robert, was it you that insisted on the tiny mirror and sun visors since you were only a year old and tiny yourself ?:)


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

JBOYLE
07-07-2006, 05:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

Yeah, I remember working on that; lots of fun...

I was actually the lead designer, but Loewy and Studebaker felt it wouldn't be prudent to give me proper credit... and I was in no position to argue- really undeveloped bargaining skills- being I was born in 1961......:D



In addition to the useless mirror and sun visors...can we talk about the trunk release mechanism...it works great (when it works), but I do wish there were a manual backup...other than the long screw driver.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Scott
07-07-2006, 08:31 PM
Maybe that's what they meant when they coined the phrase "different by design..."

bams50
07-07-2006, 09:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Robert, was it you that insisted on the tiny mirror and sun visors since you were only a year old and tiny yourself ?:)


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk


No, all bad ideas came as an overrule of my correct design; I was age-discriminated against that whole project...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

sbca96
07-07-2006, 09:50 PM
I have an "Avanti" script on the console, but its smaller :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/Gtechtest/Gtechtest12.JPG

That one looks like the script off the front.

Tom

JBOYLE
07-08-2006, 01:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

No, all bad ideas came as an overrule of my correct design; I was age-discriminated against that whole project...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1




You were probably out having a milk break..or maybe a diaper changed.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

StudeRich
07-09-2006, 03:04 AM
Hey! pretty neat! NO, not the ugly Orange on Orange car[xx(]...Is that what I think it is in the trunk? It looks like someone made a little orange bag under the pass thru panel on the package tray to put your "valuables" camera etc. into instead of "tossing" (dropping) them in the trunk![^] Pretty cool!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
07-09-2006, 05:07 PM
I think that that orange bag is the tool bag thats attached to the
back of the trunk on all Avantis. I believe that they were all black,
so in keeping with the orange theme .....

Tom

JBOYLE
07-09-2006, 06:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

I think that that orange bag is the tool bag thats attached to the back of the trunk on all Avantis.
Tom


I've never seen one. And they don't appear in trhe workshop manual, owners manual or sales brchures.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JDP
07-09-2006, 06:40 PM
Avanti II only, and only later years.


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
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64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

sbca96
07-10-2006, 12:01 AM
I could SWARE that mine had it also, I will have to pull the cover out
of the trunk and look again.

Tom

JDP
07-10-2006, 12:28 AM
Not saying it could not have been added, just certain is was not factory on any Studebaker Avanti's.


Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

53k
07-10-2006, 06:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Lot's of wrong stuff on a nice car. looks like they covered a plate with padded vinyl and stuck the script on it. I feel the same way about that as the speakers mounted in the door of the Avanti I just posted. Both can be fixed, but why do it in the first place.

First Avanti I owned (a transition '64 in '69) had box speakers mounted on the curved area immediately behind the rear seat. Talk about ugly not to mention the reduced rear visibility. Taking them off didn't entirely solve the problem as big holes were left.

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

Laemmle
07-11-2006, 10:27 PM
In South Bend 2002 my wife and I were very blessed over the seven days at the Jamison Inn to speak with Tom Kellogg over breakfast...he was a late riser and so is my wife! He was very straight forward with the Avanti story....it was Bob Andrews who actually designed the car....working from the renderings of Kellogg he crafted the clay model.....John Ebstein was the project manager...he "sweetened" the numerous changes that the clay model went through..there were things in the design that all felt needed further refinement....but time ran out...the model at a certain point had to be presented to Egbert...after his blessing the full size mock-up was initiated....the rest as they say is history...

sbca96
07-12-2006, 04:25 PM
The unfortunate part for the Avanti is that Egbert was a freakin giant
and the rumor was that he bumped his head on the a-pillar interior
mockup. He had them rotate the windsheild up at the cowl which then
resulted in the non-matching look. Its too bad they didnt just move
the whole windshield assembly out away from the driver. The overly
upright windshield is the one glaring flaw in the futuristic look.

I have read this in a few different places, wonder how factual it is.

Tom

JBOYLE
07-12-2006, 04:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

The overly
upright windshield is the one glaring flaw in the futuristic look.

Tom


I don't disagree, but all cars had an upright windshields back then, even sporty cars.
Look at the E-Type (XK-E in the US) Jaguar and compared to that, the Avanti windscreen is modern.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Laemmle
07-12-2006, 08:16 PM
IMHO, the car looks best when viewed from the side, stand back 20 feet or so...it looks like a sling shot.....another great view is standing in front of the car....also back about ten feet...when ones eye follows the lines from the parking light back over the fender...to the dip at the doors mid point ...to the slight rise by the q-panel windows...to the fast trail off and tuck under the bumper, one then realizes the design for what it is...genious...and so were those men who busted their arzz in the little rented desert house! History has reserved a special place for you guys.........

The much bally-hooed pinched waist is so slight that I consider it much a-do about nothing....a non issue, again..IMHO.

I have loved the design since it's introduction in '62.

Even my close Italian friend who is a walking bible when it comes to Italian marques thinks the Avanti could easily have come from that great factory located in Modena, Italy!

sbca96
07-13-2006, 01:23 AM
Having always wanted the Avantis main competition also (63-67 Vette) I
have also looked into how I could get one. This is a good example of
what I am talking about with the windshield. Its very true that most
of the cars in the day had fairly upright designs. I just thought it
was interesting to note just HOW close Studebaker came to breaking out
of that mold also. The Avanti is an amazing car, and incredible to
have come from such a small unstable company.

http://carstyling.ru/resources/classic/63studebaker_avanti_1.jpg

http://www.sewimustangs.com/65%20Blue%20Vette/65%20vette%20lhr%20side.JPG

The angle of the Corvette seems to be a bit more back, and then it has
more of a curve. The two together make it look more modern. An Avanti
windsheild just looks so flat, quite a contrast to its rear window!!;)

Tom

Laemmle
07-13-2006, 06:20 AM
Yes,

Larry Shinoda(sp) did great work here...but IMHO the split back design from a practical view point is horrid.....my brother had a '64 he later sold it due to poor visability(sp).

When one considers how both cars were created, and by whom, the Avanti will always be the greater design IMHO. I do love the '63 convertable "Vette" though.

sbca96
07-13-2006, 11:20 AM
I found a company that made Grand Sport Corvettes based on the 63 body
and the modifications they made for the track. They seemed to use a
newer more common Vette chassis underneath. Unfortunately production
has stalled, not that I could afford one anyway.

Another connection between these two cars I have read about over the
years, is that Molded Fiberglas that made the Vette bodies, was also
contracted to make the Avanti bodies. Studebaker had never worked in
fiberglass, so they wanted an established company. When they received
the first 100 bodies, nothing fit - hoods too big, windsheilds fell
through the holes, etc. Molded Fiberglass blamed Studebaker, and then
Studebaker blamed M.F.. Having worked with companies that contract
out work, it really was M.F.'s fault. Production was slowed to a just
about a crawl, as Studebaker frantically made jigs, cut bodies apart
and assembled the cars by hand in an area of the factory - not on the
assembly line that was designated for it. Orders were canceled, and
Studebaker took a VERY hard hit, which resulted in the closing of the
automotive division. In a way, the Avanti killed Studebaker. The very
strong rumor is that GM paid off M.F. to purposely screw up the first
100 cars, to put Studebaker behind. This makes sense for more then a
few reasons, and isnt too far fetched knowing GM's hardball tactics.
GM was no doubt worried about this new model from Studebaker, if you
look at what happened with the Lark in 1959, you could see how they
might have been concerned about this little Indiana company. This was
never proven, but it certainly makes for a nice story. It is hard to
believe a company that had SO much experience in making fiberglass
parts, could screw up SO MANY cars without catching it early on in the
quality control process. Usually you would test fit the first set of
parts, and make sure everything goes together right.

Regardless, I still love the 63-67 Vettes.;)

Tom

Transtar56
07-13-2006, 02:53 PM
"Larry Shinoda(sp) did great work here...but IMHO the split back design from a practical view point is horrid.....my brother had a '64 he later sold it due to poor visability(sp)."
I understand thats why the split window was a one year only design,poor visibility backing up. To bad,thats the only Vette Ive ever really loved the looks of,but Ive never tried to back one up (or forward) either. It seems pratically everything about a Corvette is unpractable,I wish they had have kept it a few more years.
Ive heard many older people (like my Mom) complain about the poor rear visibility in our modern "jelly beans" too, she never liked her last 3 new Impalas for just that reason.

studegary
07-13-2006, 02:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Yes,

Larry Shinoda(sp) did great work here...but IMHO the split back design from a practical view point is horrid.....my brother had a '64 he later sold it due to poor visability(sp).



Maybe I am missing something here. A '64 did not have the split back window that a '63 had.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Laemmle
07-13-2006, 04:09 PM
So many stories over the years....most of them false. GM had nothing to do with the fall of the Avanti, or Studebaker for that matter.

Some years ago I had numerous conversations with Glen Warner, a long time employee/executive with the Moulded Fiber Glass Companies.

He put me in contact with Robert Morrison's son (Bob Morrison=founder of MFG).

I was given a very rare book Bob Sr. had witten "Handbook for Manufacturing Entrepreneurs".
It is a very complex and involved tome...I will quote from the book those area's related to the Avanti.

"In 1961,we built an assembly plant for the Avanti body." "Early sales of the Avanti were reported to be excellent......." "We lost about 500,000.00 getting the Avanti going before we made a profit on it......"

"In April, 1962, Studebaker showed the Avanti at the International Auto Show in NYC. I should have shot that down, because we were far from ready for volumn production, but Sherwood Egbert and I talked ourselves into it. The Avanti was enthusiastically received; at the press showing in the Essex House, speaker after speaker patted one another on the back for the terrific and speedy work they had done to design such a fabulous car and get it ready for the show so quickly. Not one word was said about Moulded Fiber Glass or Bob Morrison."

"Studebaker and we believed that the Avanti would sell quite well. The wish was father to the thought.
By brute strengh we pushed Avanti body production up to 30 per day by February, 1963...but retail sales were not holding at 30 per day, so we cut back to 20 per day........"

The book goes on for 600 pages.....with the Avanti scattered through out.

As one can plainly see, GM did nothing to sink Studebaker....they were skilled enough to do that all by themselves.:(

Laemmle
07-13-2006, 04:12 PM
Yes Gary,

But the rear window sits at the same position...and yes, I never said my brother had a split window coupe...only that he got rid of his '64 due to the same greenhouse position.

studegary
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Yes Gary,

But the rear window sits at the same position...and yes, I never said my brother had a split window coupe...only that he got rid of his '64 due to the same greenhouse position.


Thanks. Now your point is clear to me.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

sbca96
07-13-2006, 10:00 PM
I am quite confused, poor rear visibility in the last 3 new Impalas??
That would include the 94-96 version? I dont see how anyone could be
complaining about the visibilty in the B-body. I dont think that it
even has a "blind spot". I havent noticed one in the 60k miles that I
have logged behind the wheel. The police services never reported any.
How odd. Overall the 94-96 Impalas have a very high satisfaction and
still command high resale.

Interesting Laemmle, I have read many reports that were quite the
contrary to what you quoted. I guess the truths are somewhere between
the two. Neither company would want to take on the blame for failure,
but Studebaker certainly suffered the consequences.[V]

Tom

Transtar56
07-14-2006, 05:04 AM
I guess its an elderly person thing,I never found the Impalas any worse(or better) than Intrepids,or any late model "jelly bean".
Its just the overall design,sloping front,high rear deck.
Incidently I drove my Moms 04 Impala a short time back when I was up there and needed to go on a parts run that my bike couldn't handel. I was amazed at how full of rattles that POS was after only 57k Kilometers. Made me understand even more how GM's got big problems.

Laemmle
07-14-2006, 10:53 AM
Tom,

IMHO most of what is out there is heresay, or at best scuttlebutt...

So much of history is screwed up because lies, and half truths have been repeated so many times people begin to take those statements as truth.

Yes, to be sure there are always three sides to a story, the one thing I am convinced of is that General Motors did not plot with MFG or any other entity to destroy the marketability of the Avanti. Time was the killer of the Avanti.....and to a lessor extent the lack of experience of MFG to completely assemble a car from moulded parts to finished product...Monday morning Q-backing is far too easy to do, but given more of a gestation period I feel the Avanti would have gone on to sell in significant numbers, just like the other plastic auto from Mr. Bowtie.

wagone
07-14-2006, 02:58 PM
Yes, but.....................I wouldn't put ANYTHING past corporate America, including GM! As for the Avanti, the best view in my opinion is from the rear, far and away. Which also is the only view any competition at the salt flats in the early '60s would have seen. And come to think of it for quite a few years afterward, if anyone is counting!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

wagone and the R2 Avanti

JBOYLE
07-14-2006, 04:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

So many stories over the years....most of them false. GM had nothing to do with the fall of the Avanti, or Studebaker for that matter.
As one can plainly see, GM did nothing to sink Studebaker....they were skilled enough to do that all by themselves.:(



I can't see GM, back when it was the powerhouse with something like 50% of the US market, being afraid of what was obviously going to be a fairly low production and expensive sport/luxury coupe. (but remember at the time they were planning their own...the Riveria went on sale in 63 as a T-Bird fighter...)

My guess is GM's reaction was similar to that when Volkswagen announced in the 50's that it would sell 5,000 a year in the US.
A GM executive was quoted as saying..."Hell, we'll loose that many in transit." It was that attitude...and a couple of generations of like-minded executives that put GM in the position it is now.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Scott
07-14-2006, 04:55 PM
Laemmle has a point. The Corvair somehow managed to continue despite scathing reviews and owner's negative testimonials. It was truly the car that deserved to die. The Avanti had problems totally insignificant compared to the Corvair and yet it "failed" commercially. I believe part of the reason was that Studebaker did not have time on its side. If Studebaker had had 3 or 4 more years, I think the Avanti could have gained a toehold in the market. In a way, the Avanti II proved that I am correct, but Avanti motors could not see great increases in sales because it was too small for most car buyers to take them any more seriously than a kit car or an off-brand. If the 1970 Avanti had been built by Studebaker instead of Avanti Motors I think the sales would have been at least several times more than were actually accomplished by Avanti Motors.

The attitute is exactly the same as the attitude most people have about "third" political parties. They always are painted as the radical fringe, and the lack of perceived legitimacy eventually kills them off or keeps them a tiny, insignificant speck on the political horizon.

sbca96
07-14-2006, 07:43 PM
http://www.flyguy2003.itgo.com/coolpics/impala%20SS%2096.jpg

Now I know you arent talking about the 94-96 Impala, it doesnt have a
sloping front/high rear deck. I agree that the ones made since, and
the recent Honda inspired design one were quite unexciting. The 04
you mention is the body style that came out in the late 90s, and is a
front wheel drive, built on the Lumina chassis. The recent one got a
new chassis, but is still front drive, with plenty of dangerous torque
steer from the 300+ HP V8. GM has always been plagued with rattles,
though some are easy to find and fix (my bosses 2000 Honda Accord is
not exactly "quiet";)). Currently I have 213,000 miles on my Impala
SS clone (built from a 9C1 Caprice CHP crusier), its got a few rattles
in the doors, but thats from the door panels having been broken when
they were removed from the Impala SS parts car they came from.[V]

Its been said many times that had the Avanti been made by GM, then it
would have sold in Camaro-like numbers. I still think that GM had to
take notice of the Avanti, just like they did when Dodge unveiled that
beautiful (though VERY heavy) Challenger concept. Just a few months
prior GM had publically stated that the "Muscle Car" was dead, and was
going to invest millions into revising their SUV line. Then the new
Mustang came out, sold out at Dealers, and the Challenger popped up.
Suddenly the Camaro is back .. and though originally slated for '09 is
now looking more like '08. I like the Challenger better, but the
Camaro concept is growing on me. My 1993 Camaro Z28 refuses to die,
and has now gone over 223,000 miles. I hope to get my Avanti to a
daily driver point BEFORE I [u]need</u> to rebuild the engine ... tick tock!;)

Tom

Laemmle
07-14-2006, 09:25 PM
I was with my Father and my uncle at the NY Auto Show when the Avanti was "unveiled" (my uncle was in the restoration business) and some of his clients always had tickets and would offer them as good will.

I can remember that not only the general public but many people from the other auto companies crowded around the rotating platform to get a look at Studebakers new auto.....I personally believe that FoMoCo big wigs designed the Mustang taking numerous styling q's from the Avanti...thin bumpers, long hood, short rear deck, "pony" type seats..GM can be blamed for many things....but truth be told could have cared less about Studebaker or their new car...Stude was to them a non-entity.

JDP
07-14-2006, 09:46 PM
Ford started the design of Mustang too early to use the Avanti as inspiration.

Arnold Md.
Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk
51 Commander

Laemmle
07-15-2006, 05:37 AM
Initiating a design and actually "consumateing"(sp) a finished product is a horse of another color...There are too many things similiar to just be a co-insidence(sp)... Because something is started prior does not mean aspects can not be changed "mid-stream"

But hey, that is just my opinion

avantilover
07-15-2006, 06:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by Scott

Laemmle has a point. The Corvair somehow managed to continue despite scathing reviews and owner's negative testimonials. It was truly the car that deserved to die. The Avanti had problems totally insignificant compared to the Corvair and yet it "failed" commercially. I believe part of the reason was that Studebaker did not have time on its side. If Studebaker had had 3 or 4 more years, I think the Avanti could have gained a toehold in the market. In a way, the Avanti II proved that I am correct, but Avanti motors could not see great increases in sales because it was too small for most car buyers to take them any more seriously than a kit car or an off-brand. If the 1970 Avanti had been built by Studebaker instead of Avanti Motors I think the sales would have been at least several times more than were actually accomplished by Avanti Motors.

The attitute is exactly the same as the attitude most people have about "third" political parties. They always are painted as the radical fringe, and the lack of perceived legitimacy eventually kills them off or keeps them a tiny, insignificant speck on the political horizon.
If the motoring public had purchased Studebakers when requiring new cars they may still be in business, as they only required 20,000 cars a year to keep the factory open, but people didn't want a Chevrolet engined Studebaker, didn't buy them and the rest we know.

SB could (?) have waited for production problems to be ironed out before releasing the car to the public then the lost sales may never have been lost. If GM,Ford or Chrysler wanted the Avanti they could have easily bought it after SB shut down and it would have been made in greater numbers. Surely a bargain to get an already made vehicle than having to design it for yourself[?]

In any case, this is like pissing into the wind, it gets us nowhere, just sad that the world's 4th largest automaker in the 50s spent too much money diversifying and making silly purchases like an airline for a year in 1962, otherwise they may have stayed in business.

Wonder whether the museum could ask Cooper Industries to transfer the rights to the Studebaker name as Cooper surely won't use it[?]

As Mr Biggs observed recently, even if the Studebaker Automobile Company (2006) gets into production, the original 114 y/old carporate is dead [xx(], long live Studebaker:D:D:D

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia