SBC in a Stude in 1959? Why?

[DilloCrafter]

I couldn't believe my eyes, when reading the description of this eBay listing for a 1959 Hot Rod magazine:"...Chev V8 in a Studebaker and more".

Why in the world would they want to do that back then? And I thought it didn't become a cruel world until recently.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hot-Rod-October-1959-Chev-V8-In-A-Studebaker_W0QQitemZ7003750592QQcategoryZ280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

[Jessie J.]

Because those old Champions were so good looking, and yet so slooow!
Engine-swapping began about the first time a rodder got behind the wheel of one, planted his foot to the floor.......and said WTF?
If he was serious about power, he didn't waste his time in putting in Studebaker's overweight and dinky-displacement 120 hp 232, not when there were those 331 Caddy's and Hemi's available, and when Chevrolet introduced its lightweight, high-winding 265, those same rodders were stuffing them under their Studey hoods before their Chevy orange was even dry.
Chevy powered Studebakers were setting multiple records at Bonneville long before that magazine even hit the stands, in fact, the last I knew, more speed records were held by the Chevy powered Studebakers than by any other engine/body combination. This combo had already established itself as "traditional" by 1958!

[DEEPNHOCK]

The only place on this planet where I have ever heard it described as a cruel word was here, and in this club.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by DilloCrafter

I couldn't believe my eyes, when reading the description of this eBay listing for a 1959 Hot Rod magazine:"...Chev V8 in a Studebaker and more".
Why in the world would they want to do that back then? And I thought it didn't become a cruel world until recently.

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
Ocala, FL.
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by DilloCrafter

I couldn't believe my eyes, when reading the description of this eBay listing for a 1959 Hot Rod magazine:"...Chev V8 in a Studebaker and more".

Why in the world would they want to do that back then? And I thought it didn't become a cruel world until recently.

"Hot Rod Magazine" has always been about Hot Rods (coincidence?). Hot Rods have often involved engine swaps (Cad in a '50 Ford, Hemi in a Model A, Nail Head Buick in a 49 Merc, Corvette in a 53 Stude, etc.).

The high horsepower, high winding, small package, Chevy small block has been involved in hot rodding and engine swaps since its introduction in 1955 (and still is 50 years later!).

This issue is actually pretty neat. They mate an early Corvette to a Cad/LaSalle floor shifted 3 speed and install it in a '53 Coupe. Good details on engine mounts, exhaust, etc. I used an idea from this article to activate the hydraulic clutch in my own car.

Stay away from Hot Rod Magizine, Street Rodder, Rod and Custom, and similar magazines as well as most car shows, parts vendors, car TV programs, etc. if you view this as "cruel". It's a huge part of our hobby enjoyed by a lot of folks.

-Dick-

[Roscomacaw]

This old dog's come out from under the porch TOO many times. It's a pup's challenge anymore. Let him kill it and I might haul myself out to see if there's any scraps left. Or not.........[|)]

BTW - I could keep my few acres "perfect" and make Dick park his Starliner out on the lane. He's too cool a guy to do that to tho[8D] Besides, he might not come and clear the fruit from our citrus trees if I discouraged his visits.

STUDEBAKER POWER FOREVER!!![]*




* (unless you don't want it)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[tstclr]

I have actually had someone tell me they wouldn't sell me any parts for my 63 Lark if I put a small block Chevy in it. How cruel is that???[V]

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs


BTW - I could keep my few acres "perfect" and make Dick park his Starliner out on the lane. He's too cool a guy to do that to tho[8D] Besides, he might not come and clear the fruit from our citrus trees if I discouraged his visits.

I might have to consider putting that 232 back in the Starliner if I get banned from the Pummelo orchard...

-Dick-

[JDP]

In 1958, I was one of the first of my friends to do a a Studebaker to Studebaker engine swap. I bought a bone yard 56 Sky Hawk engine with a cracked block and had it repaired. I installed it in my 51 Commander and later added a blower. Most of the swaps until 56-58 involved the Caddy, then later the mouse motor. As it turned out, I still could not run with the big Caddy swaps and the Chevy guys could buy more hop up parts.

Even in the 50's it was hard and expensive to hop up a Studebaker and all the really fast Studebakers back then were swaps as were the brand X's. You'd see a 51 Ford with a nail head Buick, maybe a early Chevy with a Olds and so on. As was pointed out, Hot Rodding was largely about engine swaps. Don't forget, even Studebaker choose the Packard engine swap and later the Chevy.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

[studegary]

In this area in the late '50s, the two fast Studebakers were both '53 Starliners. One had a set back hemi and the other had an Oldsmobile V8. The one with the hemi disappeared around 1980 and the friend with Starliner with the Olds still had it when he died in about 1990. I don't know what happened to it after that.

[bills 57 champion]

why is that so wrong mine is coming along nicly

brent wood nh

[DilloCrafter]

Actually, I was being a bit "tongue in cheek" in my initial post, when it comes to this being a cruel world that would put a Chevy engine in a Studebaker. But, I was a bit surprised to see that so many of you guys are not exactly purists about keeping everything under the hood pure Studebaker.

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

[Jessie J.]

quote:Originally posted by tstclr

I have actually had someone tell me they wouldn't sell me any parts for my 63 Lark if I put a small block Chevy in it. How cruel is that???[V]

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

I am probably that miscreant, (or at least one of them) that made such a statement, so I'll attempt to defend my perverted reasoning.
Studebaker's aren't being made any more, and haven't been for forty years, in spite of what someones brother-in-laws second cousins uncle says to the contrary.
Good, and NOS, body and trim parts are getting ever scarcer by the day, And preforming a proper restoration requires the use of these rare original parts to meet the guidelines and standards that the old car hobby requires for a car to be considered "correctly" restored.
Whereas the modified builder has no such constraints, and is under no pressure or obligation to use any particular parts in his build-up.
If you are going to modify by changing out the drivetrain for a Chevy engine and trans and a Ford rear axle, possibly cutting and altering the firewall and engine compartment to suit your tastes and ideas of what is attractive, you are NOT "restoring" that vehicle, you are modifying it, and being so modified there is no valid reason for not also using the less rare, more common GM/Ford/Mopar stainless trim, lenses, and interior panels.
My humble opinion remains, if your going to bastardize it with a Chevy ect, engine, you might as well cobble in the Chevy grill and tail-lights too, because it sure as hell isn't going to be a Studebaker when you are done.
Then there is also the consideration, that if you keep it looking like a Studebaker, when at heart it really is not, and your unique "creation" breaks down along the highway, or if as a result of some creative but faulty "backyard engineering" it became involved in an accident, it will reflect badly on those honest vehicles that really ARE Studebaker's, inside and out, and that were designed, engineered, and TESTED by the Studebaker Corp. and represent what Studebaker really affixed their name to.
If you want to "invent" your own car, then go do it, but don't try to rip-off Studebaker's Corps. proud legacy to clothe your homemade contraption, attempting to foist it off as a "Studebaker".
And make sure that you notify your insurance company that your vehicle is no longer "stock", but now is a "Hot Rod" because you have doubled or tripled its original horsepower, so that they can adjust your classification and insurance rates accordingly. Better tell them, because IF the worst case scenario should happen, your coverage could be declared null and void, and you could lose a LOT more than just your car.
Now before anyone gets too riled up, this is written tongue-in-cheek, and there are a great many modified Studes that I find very attractive, Just being a little bit of a Devil's Advocate here. [}]
Give it some thought before you cut.

[tstclr]

So...if I put a "McKinnon" 8 in my car you'd sell me parts?
Lets look at it this way. My Lark was a basket case 6 cylinder auto green on green radio delete car. I have no desire for the 6 cylinder/auto combo that came with the car (the engine was siezed anyway). I haven't ruled out putting a Stude 8 in my car but frankly, there aren't any kicking around my neck of the woods (at least any that anyone is willing to get rid of) and I don't have the time to travel hundreds of miles to get one. I am the service manager at a GM store. I'd be kind of silly NOT to investigate a small block Chevy for my Lark. With my employee discount a crate motor from GM is pretty tempting. In my opinion, just having one more Studebaker on the road to take to shows and cruise nights just might get someone else turned on to the marque and hence keep the interest in these cars alive for future generations. I have already decided on my next resto project- a 58-61 Hawk and it will be bone stock. So on second thought, maybe you better save those parts for that one!
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

[Swifster]

Bob, how many full-flow 289's are out there? And at what price? As Todd mentioned, a Stude with a 'McKinnon' and on the road is better than a Stude sitting in a field or being carted off to the crusher.

I'm fortunate in that my thoughts of Stude heaven revolve around the '64 to '66 models. This means with few exceptions, I can find most of the trim and hard parts without a lot of difficulty. This can't be said about those with cars built prior to the '64's (unless it's a '63 Avanti).

Todd was nice enough to sell his engine/trans assembly to another Studebaker enthusist. Many of those on this site who've modified their cars with an engine swap, or in other ways, try to find good homes for the excess parts instead of pitching them. The only two things I've pitched from my Daytona has been my broken windshield and rats nest wiring. Parts I can't use will be offered up to those who can.

Todd and I have both been bitten enough by the Stude bug to start looking and planning for the next Studebaker project, and it appears both will be Studebaker powered. I've never hidden the fact that the next car will be a '64 Challenger set up like a '60's style street racer with a 289 R3 clone engine and 4-speed, hence my questions. Todd made clear his intention to do a Hawk next.

Many of us bought into Studedom based on immediate plans to drop in Chevy's. While some still seek this path, others have changed course, and some have learned enough to go that path the next time around. Does this make us bad? Remember, Studebaker thought enough of the SBC to continue production in '65 and '66. Are these bastard cars? Does any one who owns a car of this vintage immediately fall under suspicion?

And where does the purity issue stop being an issue? Just the engine? What if I use a Dana 60 instead of a 44? Will I go straight to Stude hell? What about cars repainted colors other than original? Or interiors with colors and materials changed? If I take a Stude without power windows and add them, what makes this any different?

I'm sorry Bob, but if a guy like Jeff has a part you need, should he decline because you don't modify your car enough? I think this line of thought is silly, no matter which side you want to play.

Bob, in the big picture, we're all Stude lovers. We want as many Studes on the road as possible. At South Bend last spring I saw Studes with old Hemi's, Nailhead Buicks, Chevy BB and SB, as well as Studebaker. I didn't see anyone discriminate. The SDC has a class of judging for none Studebaker powered Studes (I think it's Class 9). So don't be a hater.



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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

[steve_smith54]

I suppose if I were going to put something other than a Studebaker engine in a Studebaker, SBC would be my choice. I am pretty much a purist, as I know many of you guys are, and would like to see a car kept as original as possible and see as many Studebaker parts used as possible, but since the 1965 and 1966 V8 models came from the factory with a 283, a swap involving SBC would be the least offensive.