PDA

View Full Version : Flywheel damage



studeclunker
03-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Well, looks like I'm paying the price for not dialing in the bellhousing (don't know how, none of the tools) on the Champ. The reason that it wouldn't start wasn't a worn out starter drive. The teeth on the fly wheel were chewed off. I can't get anyone to help me with this around here, and the mechanics look at me with a blank expression. Would you believe it? The professional mechanics around here have no idea what I'm talking about. They just stare blankly at me when I tell them what I need to do. I've even showed one fellow the manual and he scratched his head and said, "Okay, but what would you want to do that for?"[:0][V] Turns out he didn't even have the necessary tools. And I happen to know this guy is otherwise a really good mechanic!

Fortuneately, I have another flywheel here. So replacing it will be a royal pain, though do-able. Oh, to have someone like Ken around within a hundred miles.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

PackardV8
03-08-2007, 12:52 PM
Greetings, studeclunker,

Most all the champ sixes chew up portions of the flywheel sooner or later.

1. Is yours just chewed up in the three areas equating to TDC where the engine most often stops?

2. Is it chewed up around just one quadrant and OK elsewhere?

3. Dialing in the bellhousing only takes one inexpensive tool - a dial indicator. The procedure is thoroughly detailed in most every Studebaker shop manual. Just because it is a new procedure to you and them, don't make a bigger deal of it than it is.

4. Many times, even when the bellhousing-to-crank relationship is perfectly dialed in, the starter-to-flywheel needs adjusting. I have had to use machinist's Prussian blue and run the starter on the ring gear to indicate the mesh pattern, much as you would set the ring and pinion in a rear axle. GM shop manuals used to have a great section on shimming starters.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

PackardV8
03-08-2007, 12:52 PM
Greetings, studeclunker,

Most all the champ sixes chew up portions of the flywheel sooner or later.

1. Is yours just chewed up in the three areas equating to TDC where the engine most often stops?

2. Is it chewed up around just one quadrant and OK elsewhere?

3. Dialing in the bellhousing only takes one inexpensive tool - a dial indicator. The procedure is thoroughly detailed in most every Studebaker shop manual. Just because it is a new procedure to you and them, don't make a bigger deal of it than it is.

4. Many times, even when the bellhousing-to-crank relationship is perfectly dialed in, the starter-to-flywheel needs adjusting. I have had to use machinist's Prussian blue and run the starter on the ring gear to indicate the mesh pattern, much as you would set the ring and pinion in a rear axle. GM shop manuals used to have a great section on shimming starters.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

sntsftbll
03-08-2007, 01:15 PM
Have never seen the flywheel from a Champ, is the ring gear removable on these? Are they available if they are removable? If so and you are down that far why not put a new ring gear on at this point. Chances of the teeth being a bit marred in the same place on the other flywheel must be pretty good. That is assuming (and we all know what happens then) that the flywheel can mount only one way with offset holes. I don't know if that is possible on this engine, some I have done are offset and some are not. Doesn't the flywheel sit on the crank with a ridge to hold it in place and align it? How much dialing in is possible? I understand it if there is no "fit" in the flywheel to crank. Just asking as I said I have never seen it, trying to learn

sntsftbll
03-08-2007, 01:15 PM
Have never seen the flywheel from a Champ, is the ring gear removable on these? Are they available if they are removable? If so and you are down that far why not put a new ring gear on at this point. Chances of the teeth being a bit marred in the same place on the other flywheel must be pretty good. That is assuming (and we all know what happens then) that the flywheel can mount only one way with offset holes. I don't know if that is possible on this engine, some I have done are offset and some are not. Doesn't the flywheel sit on the crank with a ridge to hold it in place and align it? How much dialing in is possible? I understand it if there is no "fit" in the flywheel to crank. Just asking as I said I have never seen it, trying to learn

Roscomacaw
03-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Clunk, unless the teeth are chewed up on BOTH SIDES of the ring gear, you can fix this yourself. Of course, you DO have to have the flywheel off to do it.
Once off, you borrow (or maybe you have your own) a torch and heat just the ring gear itself. Once it's hot enough, it'll have grown to where it'll come off the flywheel with a few taps of a hammer. Then - while it's still hot, you flip it over (welding gloves are a boon here!)and tap it back in place. Problem solved.[^]

Of course - as I mentioned - this assumes the thing hasn't already been flipped once in it's life.
As to this being caused by not dialing in the BH, I KINDA doubt it. I won't state flatly that it COULDN'T contribute to it, but most of the dialing I've done has never revealed enough misalignment to cause a ring gear's demise.
IF there was already significant wear before you swapped housings, then this could have expedited it's failure. I have see where folks have used shims to effectively cock the nose of the starter a bit to where it would take a deeper bite into the ring gear to get going again. That's certainly something to consider in a pinch!
Good Luck!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
03-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Clunk, unless the teeth are chewed up on BOTH SIDES of the ring gear, you can fix this yourself. Of course, you DO have to have the flywheel off to do it.
Once off, you borrow (or maybe you have your own) a torch and heat just the ring gear itself. Once it's hot enough, it'll have grown to where it'll come off the flywheel with a few taps of a hammer. Then - while it's still hot, you flip it over (welding gloves are a boon here!)and tap it back in place. Problem solved.[^]

Of course - as I mentioned - this assumes the thing hasn't already been flipped once in it's life.
As to this being caused by not dialing in the BH, I KINDA doubt it. I won't state flatly that it COULDN'T contribute to it, but most of the dialing I've done has never revealed enough misalignment to cause a ring gear's demise.
IF there was already significant wear before you swapped housings, then this could have expedited it's failure. I have see where folks have used shims to effectively cock the nose of the starter a bit to where it would take a deeper bite into the ring gear to get going again. That's certainly something to consider in a pinch!
Good Luck!;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

studeclunker
03-08-2007, 03:51 PM
The ring gear can come off this flywheel? Wow! Looking at them one would never see it. At least on mine. I would suspect that this was very worn before the changeover. The Blue witch had probably a million miles on her.[B)][8] "Oh, she was our baby," they told me. Yeah, right.;) Baby work-horse maybe.:( I do have another flywheel, but it's good news that this one can be made serviceable again.

Huh! So the ring gear can come off. Strike me pink!:D

By the by, this isn't a Champion. It's a '62 Champ pickup with a 259 V8. I know how confusing the nick names we have for these cars can be.(LOL)

Speaking of nick names, Mr. Biggs, in honor of you, I'm naming the Champ 'Mr. Ed'.:D

A horse is a horse, of course, of course...[:o)]:D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
03-08-2007, 03:51 PM
The ring gear can come off this flywheel? Wow! Looking at them one would never see it. At least on mine. I would suspect that this was very worn before the changeover. The Blue witch had probably a million miles on her.[B)][8] "Oh, she was our baby," they told me. Yeah, right.;) Baby work-horse maybe.:( I do have another flywheel, but it's good news that this one can be made serviceable again.

Huh! So the ring gear can come off. Strike me pink!:D

By the by, this isn't a Champion. It's a '62 Champ pickup with a 259 V8. I know how confusing the nick names we have for these cars can be.(LOL)

Speaking of nick names, Mr. Biggs, in honor of you, I'm naming the Champ 'Mr. Ed'.:D

A horse is a horse, of course, of course...[:o)]:D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

Roscomacaw
03-08-2007, 06:08 PM
Well, it DID whinney one time![:0][:o)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
03-08-2007, 06:08 PM
Well, it DID whinney one time![:0][:o)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

studeclunker
03-08-2007, 07:07 PM
A horse is a horse of course, of course.
And no-one can talk to a horse of course -
that is of course unless the horse is the famous Mister Ed.
Go right to the source and ask the horse -
he'll give you the answer that you endorse.
He's always on a standing course -
talk to Mister Ed!

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Ed will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. "I am Mister Ed".

One of my favourite childhood songs.:D

I suppose that this truck has earned the name. After all, it's always getting me into trouble. Isn't that what Ed was always doing to Wilbur? Why is it that the show was funnier than my life? Or am I just too close to the situation to see the comedy.[:o)][:I]


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
03-08-2007, 07:07 PM
A horse is a horse of course, of course.
And no-one can talk to a horse of course -
that is of course unless the horse is the famous Mister Ed.
Go right to the source and ask the horse -
he'll give you the answer that you endorse.
He's always on a standing course -
talk to Mister Ed!

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Ed will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. "I am Mister Ed".

One of my favourite childhood songs.:D

I suppose that this truck has earned the name. After all, it's always getting me into trouble. Isn't that what Ed was always doing to Wilbur? Why is it that the show was funnier than my life? Or am I just too close to the situation to see the comedy.[:o)][:I]


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

tbredehoft
03-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Back to dialing in and gear rings, the flywheel and the engine block (which mounts the starter) are unitary, must be concentric, Its the bell housing that mounts the transmission that needs to be concentric with the crank shaft.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars

tbredehoft
03-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Back to dialing in and gear rings, the flywheel and the engine block (which mounts the starter) are unitary, must be concentric, Its the bell housing that mounts the transmission that needs to be concentric with the crank shaft.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars

2R5
03-08-2007, 09:17 PM
If you have an electric welder you can remove the ring gear very easily by just welding about a 6 inch strip on the ring gear itself. the gear will fall off when you flip the fly wheel over.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp.jpg HOME of THE FRIED GREEN TOMATO

1950 2R5
1960 Lark 2dr
1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT

2R5
03-08-2007, 09:17 PM
If you have an electric welder you can remove the ring gear very easily by just welding about a 6 inch strip on the ring gear itself. the gear will fall off when you flip the fly wheel over.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp.jpg HOME of THE FRIED GREEN TOMATO

1950 2R5
1960 Lark 2dr
1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT

Neal in NM
03-08-2007, 09:28 PM
I flipped my ring gear on my '48 M-16. I also made a jig to cut the bevel on each tooth (I own a machine shop). Worked out great! Neal

Neal in NM
03-08-2007, 09:28 PM
I flipped my ring gear on my '48 M-16. I also made a jig to cut the bevel on each tooth (I own a machine shop). Worked out great! Neal