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DEEPNHOCK
07-04-2005, 06:34 AM
[b]
Thinking about building up a cool Stude project?

This gets asked here quite a bit, and the replies are always numerous and though provoking.... Which they should be.
My first though by a new Stude owner is always to stop, take a deep breath, let the passionate 'hots' for your new Stude settle down, and take a good inventory of the Stude, your wallet, your abilities, and your passion. Make triple sure you know what you are getting into before you start cutting...

Here is an example that I have seen a dozenteen times over...:(

<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4560044871&category=6466>

More damage has been done here than good.:( More potential value has been lost here than gained.:( And another Stude cruiser wannabe will go off and call them Stupidbakers, or something like that...
Not ranting, but maybe whining a bit... It is sad to see this over and over...
Jeff[8D]

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Sam Roberts
07-04-2005, 07:51 AM
Jeff, examples like this are what make us " Studebaker purists " cringe! [V] I can recall seeing David Walker's 1953 hardtop in Dearborn, in 1995, and how it was tastefully done right. I asked him why the hemi motor, and his reply, " I wanted to be different, everybody does the Chevy motors." He apparently had the wallet, the foresight, and the loving desire, to do what 95% of the modifiers cannot, will not, and should not do!

Another one bites the dust................


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[b]
Thinking about building up a cool Stude project?

This gets asked here quite a bit, and the replies are always numerous and though provoking.... Which they should be.
My first though by a new Stude owner is always to stop, take a deep breath, let the passionate 'hots' for your new Stude settle down, and take a good inventory of the Stude, your wallet, your abilities, and your passion. Make triple sure you know what you are getting into before you start cutting...

Here is an example that I have seen a dozenteen times over...:(

<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4560044871&category=6466>

More damage has been done here than good.:( More potential value has been lost here than gained.:( And another Stude cruiser wannabe will go off and call them Stupidbakers, or something like that...
Not ranting, but maybe whining a bit... It is sad to see this over and over...
Jeff[8D]

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock


Sam Roberts

hemistudegasser
07-04-2005, 10:21 AM
hi jeff,
what about a gasser? lol. scott c

steve_smith54
07-04-2005, 10:37 AM
I tend to be more of a purist myself, but I have seen some nicely done modified cars. I have also said in previous posts that many of the modified cars started out in fairly bad shape and that I would rather see a car brought back to life as a modified car than see it crushed and lost forever. Even so, a valid point has been made here.

Anyone considering building a modified car needs to plan ahead and take a good hard look at the realities he or she will have to deal with.

Money is certainly one aspect. Remember the part of Murphy's law about estimating the cost of a project and then tripling it?

It is very important for anyone undertaking a project to realistically evaluate his or her abilities. I know I have limited physical ability and skills, so there are serious limits to what I could do.

Having the right equipment and tools is essential to succesfully completing a project. Even with the very limited tools and equipment, I can attest to how expensive they are. A good friend who was a mechanic, not a restorer, but one who repaired every day cars to keep them running easily had $100,000 worth of tools.

Space is an issue. Where will you keep the car and the parts while you work on it. Where will you keep it when it is finished.

Another question any person considering a project needs to ask is to what degree his or her spouse shares his or her enthusiasm for the project. I have seen many cars advertised for sale in which the seller states that the car is being sold to avoid a divorce, or as the result of a divorce. I always say he or she and his or her because I definitely know women who are into cars and whose husbands tolerate their car habit, and I recently saw a Studebaker being sold on eBay in which the seller stated that her husband said the car had to go or she did. The bottom line is, if you are married, you need to consider your spouse's level of toleration. As much as I love old cars, loosing my family would be too high a price to pay for one.

Last, consider all alternatives. There are good restoration and rod shops in existence. There are also nicely restored and/or rodded cars for sale. There is a very nice Studebaker on eBay right now. It isn't cheap, but it is a nice car. Especailly if you are at a point in your life where your children are grown and your mortgage is paid, a loan to buy an existing car or to have a car done professionally would be an option. Even if you are younger, as long as you don't already have excessive debt, go for it. If you realistically know you don't have the skill, equipment, spousal enthusiasm, space, etc. to build a car, you would be far better off in the long run going the route of having your car professioanlly done or buying an existing finished car.

Alright, I'll get back under my soapbox now.

Swifster
07-04-2005, 11:27 AM
Being single, the wife part isn't in the equation (at least not yet). I've spent over a year planning on what would be done, what parts would be used and a good idea what the costs would be (though as always, there is a fudge amount to the budget). I think the biggest failing in building a modified car is a lack of planning and poor organization in the teardown. How many cars end up as basketcases in boxes that are not marked with no idea of what went where? And this is true of restorations as well as modified.

Every part I've pull off the Daytona has been either bagged, boxed or tagged. The parts have the part number, the parts book page, and color digital photos included to indicate where everything goes when put back together 4 years from now.

My biggest issues with my Stude vs. the Big 3 stuff I've had before is dealing with how the car is constructed. It definitely is different. As mentioned previously, I just wish the service manual was more detailed than it is.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

52hawk
07-04-2005, 11:32 AM
And,it doesn't just happen with Studebakers.. I wish I had a dollar for every one of these 'unfinished projects' I've seen over the years. 'just needs paint' or 'just needs finishing touches' 'engine and trans are in,just needs to be hooked up'. The saddest thing is,a lot of these are headed for the boneyard,'cause after the owner loses interest,nobody else is interested either

Everybody's Uncle Used To Have One!

Danarchy
07-04-2005, 11:36 AM
I am at the beginning of my 1st Studebaker project and as much as I like to keep cars original, I like to have a reliable,solid,comfortable car to drive. This may mean an High output alternator,dual batteries(relocated),Vintage Air A/C,Good Stereo,among other creature comforts. The car will be original in appearence(no chopping,metal flake paint,or anything like that) and any accessories will be period (1960 in my case)
I am rebuilding the Studebaker(259/Auto)motor and will either use a 3-speed w/OD(if I can find a good donor car) or swap in a TH400(because of availability and reliability), I am not fond of the Flight-o-matic(ex-Ford junk)
Ihis is an excellent site and makes everything alot easier. I found my car through SDC members!

Dallas,Texas

64challenger
07-04-2005, 11:39 AM
Hey HemisStudeGasser! I'm big into Stude gassers and thought i was the only one. What ya got? A gasser is the only way i'm ok with a modified Stude at least its period correct!

My Studes:
1.1947 Commander 14A-C3
2.1948 Champion 2 door sedan
3.1950 Champion 2 door sedan
4.1959 Lark 2 door post
5.1964 Stude challenger 2 door

Sam Roberts
07-04-2005, 01:42 PM
QUOTE OF THE WEEK!

[quote][i] "The saddest thing is,a lot of these are headed for the boneyard,'cause after the owner loses interest,nobody else is interested either"


Sam Roberts

DEEPNHOCK
07-04-2005, 02:53 PM
Make sure to read this month's TW to find out about Scott's Gasser [:p]
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by 64challenger

Hey HemisStudeGasser! I'm big into Stude gassers and thought i was the only one. What ya got? A gasser is the only way i'm ok with a modified Stude at least its period correct!

My Studes:
1.1947 Commander 14A-C3
2.1948 Champion 2 door sedan
3.1950 Champion 2 door sedan
4.1959 Lark 2 door post
5.1964 Stude challenger 2 door


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
07-04-2005, 02:57 PM
What are ya, a troublemaker?;)
BTW, I fell off my roof today and did a number on my back scraping the ladder on the way down[:0](The ladder slipped)
Good thing was I landed on my head, so except for the scrapes and bruises, I was all right[B)]
But I thought about your hot rod chair as I was falling... Really did[:0]
Jeff (no smarter than yesterday) Rice[8D]



quote:Originally posted by hemistudegasser

hi jeff,
what about a gasser? lol. scott c


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Roscomacaw
07-04-2005, 02:59 PM
Jeff's said it all here. Frankly, had I seen this on ebay (and I rarely check for Stude vehicles on ebay - mostly only parts.) I would not have commented on it. I used to and I was roundly pummeled for my feelings. Of course, I still will elaborate on my stance towards "doing" a Studebaker, and I have no reservations in that regard. But this truck? What's the point? Good for a chuckle I guess - or even as a "what not to do" example as was Jeff's point.
There's people that have "car fantasies" out there that cover the entire spectrum of common sense and capability. That some of them on the short ends of those spectrums can afford to buy a relic to fix up is evidenced by examples such as this truck.

Danarchy - if I may, I'd like to address your comments about the P-O-S Flight-o-matic. Our own SuperStuder - Ted Harbit - raced an unmodified (unrebuilt even) Flight-o-matic in his legendary Chicken Hawk. I believe he ran the same unit (without repairs or servicing) for at least a dozen - maybe even 15 years.
It was only after fellow racers (runner's of Brand X cars) enticed him to swapping to a TH350 (a BUILT TH350) that he started cratering trannies (yes - plural):(
Say what you will about that old FOM but it's one bullet-proof piece of iron. Even the SDC Tranny guru, John Metzker, will testify to that fact. And John still works a-building tarnnies to this day.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Roscomacaw
07-04-2005, 03:08 PM
Jeff says: "BTW, I fell off my roof today and did a number on my back scraping the ladder on the way down(The ladder slipped)
Good thing was I landed on my head, so except for the scrapes and bruises, I was all right
But I thought about your hot rod chair as I was falling... Really did
Jeff (no smarter than yesterday) Rice"

Ya know Jeff, you seem to possess a different SORT of horseshoe than JDP does.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

JDP
07-04-2005, 03:17 PM
He needs a "Golden Horseshoe":) Just had another lucky day yesterday. A few months back I bought a 4 speed R2 Hawk with a rebuilt engine, but the car was trashed in a tornado. It was a black 63 with a red interior and I was hoping for a solid 63 car to do a body/chassis swap to save the much rarer R2. I bought one yesterday, a black 63 with a red interior.:)

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

Sam Roberts
07-04-2005, 04:38 PM
Big Guy, I wholeheartedly agree with you on transmissions, and having had about all variations of automatics ever made in the USA, (except the Packard nightmare ) the 2 strongest I ever had was the Borg-Warner Fordo-Flighto-Flashomatics, and the Mopar 727s TorqueFlites! GM has not built that strong a transmission since at least the old 4 speed Hydramatics IM (not so) HO. ;)

BTW, last time I talked to Ted about trannies, he was considering a Slide-Glide GM, but that was a while ago, so do not know what his plans are for the glass bodied drag car.


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Danarchy - if I may, I'd like to address your comments about the P-O-S Flight-o-matic. Our own SuperStuder - Ted Harbit - raced an unmodified (unrebuilt even) Flight-o-matic in his legendary Chicken Hawk. I believe he ran the same unit (without repairs or servicing) for at least a dozen - maybe even 15 years.
It was only after fellow racers (runner's of Brand X cars) enticed him to swapping to a TH350 (a BUILT TH350) that he started cratering trannies (yes - plural):(
Say what you will about that old FOM but it's one bullet-proof piece of iron. Even the SDC Tranny guru, John Metzker, will testify to that fact. And John still works a-building tarnnies to this day.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


Sam Roberts

DEEPNHOCK
07-04-2005, 04:53 PM
I'm not bitchin'....Hurtin' a bit, but not bitchin';)
Dang good thing it is a Florida house (1 story built on sand)...
No bounce[xx(]
Jeff[8D]


Ya know Jeff, you seem to possess a different SORT of horseshoe than JDP does.:D



DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Studedude
07-04-2005, 04:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[blue][b]What are ya, a troublemaker?;)
BTW, I fell off my roof today and did a number on my back scraping the ladder on the way down[:0](The ladder slipped)
Good thing was I landed on my head, so except for the scrapes and bruises, I was all right[B)]


What a dip stick. ;)

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

Studedude
07-04-2005, 04:56 PM
quote:
Not ranting, but maybe whining a bit... It is sad to see this over and over

I agree, no one should ever modify a Stude, they never come out right.:D

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

Danarchy
07-04-2005, 10:53 PM
O.K.,o.k., the reason I have a bad taste for the FOM trans. is an old Falcon I had briefly that was and probably still is the BIGGEST piece of junk ever! Maybe it would be differant in a Stude,maybe it was just that car??? maybe I have a TH400 sitting in my garage looking for a home!
Best case scenrio is that I find a 3-speed w/OD, I have some time as I am looking at a complete engine overhaul and some serious body repair. Interior is nice!:D I'll hold off on the tranny swap,and won't mention it again[}:)]

Dallas,Texas

Roscomacaw
07-05-2005, 12:24 AM
Hey - I wasn't irked at your mention of it. I wonder if that Falcon even HAD a cast iron Flight-o-matic or if it used the lesser T-35, aluminum case trans as Stude and Rambler did behind the 6s from the early 60s on?

I can say with all honesty that I've never had a Flight-o fail on me. And I've owned a bunch of them.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Danarchy
07-05-2005, 11:44 AM
Mr.Biggs, you are correct sir, it was an aluminum case FOM in the Falcon! Is that not what is in my Lark wagon? It is a V8. Did they come with a cast iron and the 6's with aluminum? I guess I could look at it, but at the moment it is covered with a 1/4" of West Texas Dirt and Oil. It could be made out of Gold for all I know!:D
Appreciate any insights or info.-Dan

Dallas,Texas

hemistudegasser
07-05-2005, 01:03 PM
jeff,glad to hear you are OK

challenger- i own a 41 stude champ coupe, 60's gasser style, with a 426 hemi. theres a story on it in this months turning wheels. always happy to bs about gassers,if ya want drop me a email at scott@gassermadness.com

back to the original ? ,i think its very simple,build what YOU want. whether you are a purist or hot rodder( i understand both perspectives) do what makes YOU happy,if others dont like what dream you create, tough bananas:D

Roscomacaw
07-05-2005, 07:55 PM
Your 60 wagon SHOULD be the cast-iron-case FOM. Even if it WAS a 6, in 1960 - they used the cast iron unit behind the 6. It wasn't until '63 that they started using the T-35 FOM behind the 6.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

rrausch
07-08-2005, 07:53 PM
Hi guys. I'm just visiting here, I'm not a Stude owner--I'm currently restoring a rusty '53 Chev. Convertible, but I just had to comment about this sad Studebaker truck on eBay. What an idiot!! He took a perfectly good truck and just ruined it in my opinion. One of my friends is restoring an early '50s Studebaker 3/4 ton truck and to see my buddy's truck and compare it to this piece of junk... well it is pathetic. That's all I can say about it. What a shame.

1953 Chev. 210 Convertible (But I always did love Studebakers!)

steve_smith54
07-08-2005, 09:42 PM
Although I obviously like Studebakers, I also appreciate other antique, classic, and special interest cars. Your '53 210 convertible is a rare bird. If '53 was not the only year they were made it was the last year.


quote:Originally posted by rrausch

Hi guys. I'm just visiting here, I'm not a Stude owner--I'm currently restoring a rusty '53 Chev. Convertible, but I just had to comment about this sad Studebaker truck on eBay. What an idiot!! He took a perfectly good truck and just ruined it in my opinion. One of my friends is restoring an early '50s Studebaker 3/4 ton truck and to see my buddy's truck and compare it to this piece of junk... well it is pathetic. That's all I can say about it. What a shame.

1953 Chev. 210 Convertible (But I always did love Studebakers!)

rrausch
07-09-2005, 07:13 PM
Thanks Steve! I bought the 210 Convertible fairly cheap in 1989 and it had no floors, no trunk floor, rusted-out doors, plus it had been rear-ended! Ha! Trees had been growing up through the car's interior! True. But at least there were no bullet holes, and everything was there! I got the bodywork done on it the first few years, then let it sit in a barn for 10 years wondering where to start. Finally 3 years ago I got a 261 6cyl and rebuilt it, rebuilt the 3-speed trans, and started looking on eBay for parts. Now it is almost mechanically complete and cosmetically complete except for paint and top and interior.

I have always loved old Studebaker cars and trucks. After High School a buddy of mine had a 48 or 49 4-door Stude--the one with the 2 piece wrap-around rear window. What a blast we had in that car. And another friend of mine is restoring an early 50's Stude 3/4 ton truck right now. That's how I found this site. Great site! Great people!

1953 Chev. 210 Convertible, 261 6cyl w/Offy dual intake (But I always did love Studebakers!)
1995 Dodge/Cummins Pickup, 250 HP, 620 Ft. Lbs. of Torque, ATS trans.

oldcarfart
07-12-2005, 09:05 PM
a falcon would have had a C3 or C4 tranny, not a ******-o-matic. we used ford cast iron cased FMX's behind cummins diesels for shipboard aircraft tow tractors, almost bulletproof.