259/R1 cam

[Bunzard]

Can I use a R1/R2 cam in my stock '64 259 with .030 overbore? What are the considerations if any? Thanks, Bunzard

[whacker]

Yes. It will work fine. You may need to set the idle up a little.

[Alan]

If you have a good cam in it now you will gain nothing but skined nuckels and dirty fingernails and an oil leak but no performance gain it is the same cam.

[MarkC]

Sorry to disagree Alan, but the R1/R2 cam is NOT the same as the base 259 cam. The timing and lift are different (as are the part numbers in the book).

MarkC, 64 Y8
Working in Spokane, WA

[Alan]

The R1 - R2 cam specs are Intake open 17- closes 63, Exhaust opens 56- closes 24 deg, 260 deg. duration with .425 lift (with 0 valve lash)actual lift is .398 approx.If you check the specs on the 259 cam you will find that there is not enough difference to make the cam change worth the trouble for what little extra you could get out of it.I would not want to go through all that work for 1 or 2 hp.

[JDP]

Spoken like it came from someone that never done the cam swap. It makes a major differance from about 3000 RPM on up with the correct valve springs. Raw cam specs do not predict performance gains. You could design a cam with exactly the same specs as the factory cam and more effective duration. We used to call them 'cheater cams'.

I've built several dozen high performance 259/289's and always use the R series cam, or Ted Harbit's R2 + grind. I'd guess a 10-15% HP gain with the correct intake and exhaust, and it sound better with the idle lope.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

[Alan]

Well jdp you are talking with some one that has done more than 30 different cam swaps in Stude engines from 1958 to present I held the UDRA National record in N and M stock class from 1966 to some time in the 70's when they took Studes out of their stock classes because of age rules.Held the E modified production class at Orange County raceway.Held the L stock unit 2 record at Irwindale raceway and ran at Bonniville race way 1966-1969.Worked for Paxton Products as a welder from 66-69,and am still building R pans for Lional Stone.You talk cheater cams and that's just what they are, the specifications for the R cams are with 0 valve lash. The lssh on the R1 is .025 intake and .027 on the exhaust when you figure in the 260 deg. duration timing event it is at .006 lifter rise by the time you rise the lifter enough to close the valve gap you have eaten up half your timing to .050 lifter rise. Those stock cams are sick the Ted Harbit cams have quite a bit more duration and lift if you compair apples to apples.And there is no such thing as a factory R2+ cam.

[JDP]

I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with your statement that the factory R2 cam is only good for 2 or 3 HP. The cam still makes power beyond the stock cams rev limit. I'll try and dig up the SAE paper on the Avanti engine that shows the improvement. It seems odd that Studebaker would design a cam and spring setup that did not make more of a improvement that you state.
In my drag racing days, the cam swap was good for a few tenths in the quarter and I could feel the differance and see the engine rev higher. I will agree the R2 plus cam is a better cam than the stock R2 and that's all I use now. BTW, I have a old Jet City cammed engine that makes crazy power, nut it hurts the low end a bit more.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

[Alan]

My comment was to the fact that the R1 cam is not that much better than the stock cam in the 259.The guy asked if he could put the cam in a car that was running.I go by the school of if it is running don't F with it.
It is not worth the effort to change cams on a daily driver to get a few more HP and have a chance of getting more leaks through that front seal.I have a tech. paper by Paxton products I got back in 1969 I gave it to Lional Stone and he reproduced it in the Avanti association Newsletter Feb.1979 Page 8. There is no R2 cam the R1 and R2 cam is the same. The R3 cam is PN 1558819 and the R4 cam is PN 1560816 they were 276 and 288 deg. duration respectivly.Look in the Avanti workshop manual on pages 4 and 5 and you will see there is only 1 cam.I my self would use a Iskenderian ST5 if you look at the specs on that you will see it is a cheater cam of the R1 with a little more lift.And you can tell the difference.

[JDP]

I know there is only one cam, but for what ever reason, folks always refer to the "R2" cam, maybe because of Ted's R2+. We can agree to disagree on this one. I'd have to give you the point that if you're going to do a cam, better to use the so called R2+, I love that cam.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

[Alan]

Hey Bunz! before we go any further I will have to ask is the car running or is it something you are just building and haven't put the cam in the block yet.Also have to know if you are worried about money or gas millage and how you plan to drive it that would simplify things.

[Mike Van Veghten]

JDP,

Back to your oil pan build...
What is it that you are building? I've started an engine that needs a pan and was thinking about the Avanti style with the breather tube in it. Is that what you are doing?
Please let me know as I am in the market.

Thanks.

Mike

[JDP]

Mike
You lost me, what oil pan build ?? I do have a chrome Avanti pan breather on ebay now.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

[Kdancy]

It is Alan that is building the oil pans for LS.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
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