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arkiejazz
03-01-2007, 05:41 PM
[:o)]This little Hawk is a mystery to me. Maybe some of you "car types" can explain it. This is the second time in a row that this Hawk has gone up on Ebay with nary a bid. Are '60 Hawks not worth as much as other Hawks? Or is there something about this particular Hawk that turns buyers off?[:o)]Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/ys6ohs


steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

Dick Steinkamp
03-01-2007, 05:48 PM
Here's my 2 cents.

The 6,000 opening bid (which still won't meet reserve) and the $8500 BIN scare off bidders. I know JP has successfully used the BIN, but I think bidders know the reserve is going to be just below the BIN and feel it's out of their budget and move on.

With a $1000 required opening bid and no BIN (but with a reserve), I think a car like this would get some bids and some interest going. It may then well sell for MORE THAN what the seller would have stated as the BIN as auction fever kicks in. In any case, the seller will know what the eBay market thinks the car is worth even if it doesn't make reserve. With his current system of a high required opening bid and a BIN, he may never know.





http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-01-2007, 05:48 PM
Here's my 2 cents.

The 6,000 opening bid (which still won't meet reserve) and the $8500 BIN scare off bidders. I know JP has successfully used the BIN, but I think bidders know the reserve is going to be just below the BIN and feel it's out of their budget and move on.

With a $1000 required opening bid and no BIN (but with a reserve), I think a car like this would get some bids and some interest going. It may then well sell for MORE THAN what the seller would have stated as the BIN as auction fever kicks in. In any case, the seller will know what the eBay market thinks the car is worth even if it doesn't make reserve. With his current system of a high required opening bid and a BIN, he may never know.





http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

blackhawk61
03-01-2007, 06:10 PM
Some of the Chrome appears to be painted with silver paint(side grille frames;Tail lamp bezels)That turns Me off on this car......What else may not be "up to par" ?

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT
http://sixty5short.chevytalk-supporter.org/blackhawk61/rrhawk.jpg
Lewisville,NC
(formerly chevpartsman)

blackhawk61
03-01-2007, 06:10 PM
Some of the Chrome appears to be painted with silver paint(side grille frames;Tail lamp bezels)That turns Me off on this car......What else may not be "up to par" ?

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT
http://sixty5short.chevytalk-supporter.org/blackhawk61/rrhawk.jpg
Lewisville,NC
(formerly chevpartsman)

60studehawk
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
Tail lights are not correct either. Missing grill emblem. Minor things, but makes me wonder what you can't see is wrong.

Jeff Sheaffer
60 Hawk

60studehawk
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
Tail lights are not correct either. Missing grill emblem. Minor things, but makes me wonder what you can't see is wrong.

Jeff Sheaffer
60 Hawk

JDP
03-01-2007, 08:02 PM
I agree that it's the high opening bid, but disagree about the BIN. I've set a silly high BIN thinking I'll lower it as the auction progresses along with the reserve only to have someone hit it. I almost always plan on lowering the reserve to generate interest, even if it's only a dollar. The bidders get a e-mail about the lower reserve and take another shot. Another factor this week, is good part of the Studebaker bidder pool is waiting for potential York bargains.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
03-01-2007, 08:02 PM
I agree that it's the high opening bid, but disagree about the BIN. I've set a silly high BIN thinking I'll lower it as the auction progresses along with the reserve only to have someone hit it. I almost always plan on lowering the reserve to generate interest, even if it's only a dollar. The bidders get a e-mail about the lower reserve and take another shot. Another factor this week, is good part of the Studebaker bidder pool is waiting for potential York bargains.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

arkiejazz
03-02-2007, 04:13 PM
[:o)]Well, he swears the side grills aren't painted. But they really do look dull in the photos. He also says that he'd take $6501 for it. Will be interesting to see if it gets a bid this time around.[:o)]

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

arkiejazz
03-02-2007, 04:13 PM
[:o)]Well, he swears the side grills aren't painted. But they really do look dull in the photos. He also says that he'd take $6501 for it. Will be interesting to see if it gets a bid this time around.[:o)]

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

Roscomacaw
03-02-2007, 04:26 PM
They may not be painted - technically - but they look like bare pot metal to my eye.;) Same thing with the taillight bezels - bare pot metal. Lotsa little exterior trim missing and what looks like evidence of more than surface rust along seams 'n such.
"All original" - with a black-painted engine compartment. You know - you can tell the truth - or not. And when that interior was redone, why did they overlook the windlace? I'll guarantee you it was rotten ten years ago to be as bad as it is now.[}:)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
03-02-2007, 04:26 PM
They may not be painted - technically - but they look like bare pot metal to my eye.;) Same thing with the taillight bezels - bare pot metal. Lotsa little exterior trim missing and what looks like evidence of more than surface rust along seams 'n such.
"All original" - with a black-painted engine compartment. You know - you can tell the truth - or not. And when that interior was redone, why did they overlook the windlace? I'll guarantee you it was rotten ten years ago to be as bad as it is now.[}:)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Champion51
03-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Yeh, I've had the same thoughts as everyone else. This car needs a full restoration, including body, paint, chrome, trim and I would say interior. I've been watching this car for some time now, trying to keep my fingers away from the "bid now" button. There is definitely something wrong with this picture and I think its more than the price. I notice that this appears to be the only for sale item this person has in his/her feedback. I really want to buy a Hawk but unless I can get reassurance this is not a rust-bucket, I'll stay away. Also note: no undercarriage pictures. Has anyone inquired if he is a SDC member?

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Champion51
03-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Yeh, I've had the same thoughts as everyone else. This car needs a full restoration, including body, paint, chrome, trim and I would say interior. I've been watching this car for some time now, trying to keep my fingers away from the "bid now" button. There is definitely something wrong with this picture and I think its more than the price. I notice that this appears to be the only for sale item this person has in his/her feedback. I really want to buy a Hawk but unless I can get reassurance this is not a rust-bucket, I'll stay away. Also note: no undercarriage pictures. Has anyone inquired if he is a SDC member?

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Dick Steinkamp
03-02-2007, 04:57 PM
The seller actually spends more time talking about the car's "warts" than the good points. It sounds to me like he is trying to accurately describe the car.

When some folks say "all original" they mean it has the stock engine, transmission, etc. Most non Stude experts wouldn't know the correct color of the engine compartment.

If some one here is seriously interested in the car you would think they would contact the seller, get pictures and descriptions of those things in question, and maybe even chat with him on the phone. How about locating a forum member in his neck of the woods and have him/her take a peak at it?

If the car is not a rust bucket, $6500 seems fair to me.

If you are looking for reasons NOT to buy a car, you can always find them...real OR imaginary :)

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
03-02-2007, 04:57 PM
The seller actually spends more time talking about the car's "warts" than the good points. It sounds to me like he is trying to accurately describe the car.

When some folks say "all original" they mean it has the stock engine, transmission, etc. Most non Stude experts wouldn't know the correct color of the engine compartment.

If some one here is seriously interested in the car you would think they would contact the seller, get pictures and descriptions of those things in question, and maybe even chat with him on the phone. How about locating a forum member in his neck of the woods and have him/her take a peak at it?

If the car is not a rust bucket, $6500 seems fair to me.

If you are looking for reasons NOT to buy a car, you can always find them...real OR imaginary :)

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Champion51
03-02-2007, 05:11 PM
If I wanted sell a car of this vintage - I would have pictures of the frame and floorboards. I am going to pursue this further - but not by telephone. I like the "written" word so there is a record of what was said. Then there's no, "I said, you said" debate when its time to pick up the car.;)

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Champion51
03-02-2007, 05:11 PM
If I wanted sell a car of this vintage - I would have pictures of the frame and floorboards. I am going to pursue this further - but not by telephone. I like the "written" word so there is a record of what was said. Then there's no, "I said, you said" debate when its time to pick up the car.;)

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

showbizkid
03-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Bob's right about the grilles and taillamps - bare metal. In that one closeup of the rear fender seam and left taillight, you can see that there's a tiny bit of chrome left adhering to the housing - the rest is peeled off.

I remember a buddy of mine in college had a '65 Belvedere. The rear bumper chrome was crap from the factory and the chrome started to peel; he took hold of a piece one day and shrrrriiiiiiip! just peeled it off the whole damn bumper. Bare nickel left, and it looked just like that picture.

But if the floor's solid and engine's strong, it'd be a solid candidate for rescue :)


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

showbizkid
03-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Bob's right about the grilles and taillamps - bare metal. In that one closeup of the rear fender seam and left taillight, you can see that there's a tiny bit of chrome left adhering to the housing - the rest is peeled off.

I remember a buddy of mine in college had a '65 Belvedere. The rear bumper chrome was crap from the factory and the chrome started to peel; he took hold of a piece one day and shrrrriiiiiiip! just peeled it off the whole damn bumper. Bare nickel left, and it looked just like that picture.

But if the floor's solid and engine's strong, it'd be a solid candidate for rescue :)


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Roscomacaw
03-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Alot of what's been said here is good. And communication is pivotal unless it's a situation where you've getting an >honest< shot at buying a 55 Speedster for 50 bucks.[:0]
But remember our forum member who ended up with the '62 GT that he lovingly named "The bend-over poop-hawk"??? I can't recall how many times he'd conversed with the seller and even had the seller do a "walk-around" phone conversation - describing in detail, each point the prospective buyer asked about. With all such assurances, when he won the car, what showed up on the transport truck was an unmitigated piece of literal junk!:(

Also consider that most of us are aware that no matter what - photos tend to flatter a car as opposed to what you'd see if you were looking at the very same view in person.[8D] Call me a glass-half-empty kinda guy, but if I don't like what I see in those pics, I'm fairly certain I'll be less enchanted when I walk around it.
Is it a good candidate for a resto? Sure - with enough money - what isn't? And admittedly, I don't think this Hawk is a piece of junk. I just don't think the photos match the description. Read this excerpt:

"RELISTED AT A POTENTIAL SALE PRICE OF FAR LESS THAN IT IS WORTH! EVEN THE BUY IT NOW IS A GREAT DEAL! A very nice 1960 Studebaker Hawk with a 289 8 cylinder automatic driveline. This vehicle is all original except for the interior which was redone about 10 years ago. As such, it is a fabulous example of the last years of the finned Hawks."

Would you call it a "Fabulous Example"??? I could go "good example".
Yeah - he DOES allude to some warts, but then completly forgets some that are glaringly obvious from the photos.
Of course, if you've got the recent Barret-Jackson results resonating in the back of your head, this certainly is a great deal even at the BIN price![:p]

Again, the seller sings:
"The car is not a perfect show car; IT IS a damn sight better than a daily driver and you will absolutely love it."

The first statement is certainly honest, but what does he think a "daily driver" looks like? My tired Transtar's a daily driver and appearance-wise it's about equal to this.

Having dissected these statements, the car's probably worth what Steve said the guy told him he'd take for it ($6501.00)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Roscomacaw
03-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Alot of what's been said here is good. And communication is pivotal unless it's a situation where you've getting an >honest< shot at buying a 55 Speedster for 50 bucks.[:0]
But remember our forum member who ended up with the '62 GT that he lovingly named "The bend-over poop-hawk"??? I can't recall how many times he'd conversed with the seller and even had the seller do a "walk-around" phone conversation - describing in detail, each point the prospective buyer asked about. With all such assurances, when he won the car, what showed up on the transport truck was an unmitigated piece of literal junk!:(

Also consider that most of us are aware that no matter what - photos tend to flatter a car as opposed to what you'd see if you were looking at the very same view in person.[8D] Call me a glass-half-empty kinda guy, but if I don't like what I see in those pics, I'm fairly certain I'll be less enchanted when I walk around it.
Is it a good candidate for a resto? Sure - with enough money - what isn't? And admittedly, I don't think this Hawk is a piece of junk. I just don't think the photos match the description. Read this excerpt:

"RELISTED AT A POTENTIAL SALE PRICE OF FAR LESS THAN IT IS WORTH! EVEN THE BUY IT NOW IS A GREAT DEAL! A very nice 1960 Studebaker Hawk with a 289 8 cylinder automatic driveline. This vehicle is all original except for the interior which was redone about 10 years ago. As such, it is a fabulous example of the last years of the finned Hawks."

Would you call it a "Fabulous Example"??? I could go "good example".
Yeah - he DOES allude to some warts, but then completly forgets some that are glaringly obvious from the photos.
Of course, if you've got the recent Barret-Jackson results resonating in the back of your head, this certainly is a great deal even at the BIN price![:p]

Again, the seller sings:
"The car is not a perfect show car; IT IS a damn sight better than a daily driver and you will absolutely love it."

The first statement is certainly honest, but what does he think a "daily driver" looks like? My tired Transtar's a daily driver and appearance-wise it's about equal to this.

Having dissected these statements, the car's probably worth what Steve said the guy told him he'd take for it ($6501.00)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
Your Transtar might be a daily driver, Bob, but unlike most dailys, it's loved and shows it [^]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

showbizkid
03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
Your Transtar might be a daily driver, Bob, but unlike most dailys, it's loved and shows it [^]


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

diodorus
03-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Now that everyone has weighed in I will admit that $7K is what I paid for my 60 Hawk last year.
Jim

diodorus
03-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Now that everyone has weighed in I will admit that $7K is what I paid for my 60 Hawk last year.
Jim

Champion51
03-03-2007, 09:36 PM
I wrote this fellow, (Stephen), with about a dozen questions and he gave me a reply. Number one, he assured me this wasn't a rust bucket and number two, that the car ran well. In summary, for someone NOT wanting to invest a bunch of bucks in a Hawk, who merely wants a daily driver - a good buy for around $7,000. However, anyone wanting a full restoration project, plan in putting another 18-22 G's in this one, and a few hours to boot. If someone bids and buys the car, you can always back out when its time to pick the up the car and pay for it. You'll only be out your travel costs. Of course, ethically, you could only do that, if the car is not what it advertised to be. He's sending me more pictures tonight. Jim, how did your Hawk compare to this one when you bought it?

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Champion51
03-03-2007, 09:36 PM
I wrote this fellow, (Stephen), with about a dozen questions and he gave me a reply. Number one, he assured me this wasn't a rust bucket and number two, that the car ran well. In summary, for someone NOT wanting to invest a bunch of bucks in a Hawk, who merely wants a daily driver - a good buy for around $7,000. However, anyone wanting a full restoration project, plan in putting another 18-22 G's in this one, and a few hours to boot. If someone bids and buys the car, you can always back out when its time to pick the up the car and pay for it. You'll only be out your travel costs. Of course, ethically, you could only do that, if the car is not what it advertised to be. He's sending me more pictures tonight. Jim, how did your Hawk compare to this one when you bought it?

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

diodorus
03-04-2007, 08:41 AM
Comparable. Maybe a tad better on details.
Jim

diodorus
03-04-2007, 08:41 AM
Comparable. Maybe a tad better on details.
Jim

diodorus
03-04-2007, 09:07 AM
I realize these pics may not be terribly useful as a comp but for what it's worth:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/diodorus/stude3.jpg

diodorus
03-04-2007, 09:07 AM
I realize these pics may not be terribly useful as a comp but for what it's worth:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/diodorus/stude3.jpg

arkiejazz
03-06-2007, 07:34 AM
[:o)]Well, someone liked it enough to pull the buy it now trigger at $7800.

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh

arkiejazz
03-06-2007, 07:34 AM
[:o)]Well, someone liked it enough to pull the buy it now trigger at $7800.

steve blake
http://tinyurl.com/kr3gt
http://tinyurl.com/l7oqh