Thirteen Historical R3 Avantis Photos

[herbpcpa]

[Gunslinger]

The #8 Bonneville car is a few miles from me. It has a genuine R3 engine, though not the engine it ran with at Bonneville. I don't see where the car is being "restored", but the R3 engine is out of it and is being rebuilt.

I have photos of the car as it sits. The car's serial number is 63R1014.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[PackardV8]

JMHO, but
reportedly received a Paxton-Products-shop-built-hot-rod 299" engine which was never stamped/numbered as an R3. Yes, it can be considered as the development prototype for the R3s, but is not/was not an R3 and from those who were there, the engine differed in several internal and external details from the production engines. Ironically, its 299" was faster than the production 304.5" cars.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[studegary]

There are only nine true Studebaker production R3 Avantis.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[wcarroll@outrageous.net]

I know it's popular to set Land Speed Records with Studebakers that are powered by non-Studebaker engines, but this is the first Weedeater engine swap I've ever seen [)]

Should be interesting to see how #8 performs on the course once they finish the swap.

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

[rcrall]

There is at least one more, the Hot Rod Magazine R3 Road Test car (63R-1025) was used by Andy Granatelli as his personal car until the vehicle was sold to Paxton (Factory invoice to Paxton $500) in July 64 months after production ceased. Vince Granatelli purchased it, later sold it to Bill Alderman who sold it to me fall of 69.

[rkapteyn]

64R5089 Turquoise 4 speed was completely restored by Randy Rapp of Collinsville Illinois and shown at the Rosemont muscle car show in 2016.
The engine was rebuild by Automachine in St.Charles Illinois https://www.stcharlesil.gov/business/listings/auto-machine
They also rebuild many high performance Studebaker V8 engines and are the best.
This is a before picture of the car in my building

http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R5000/64R5089/r5089c.html

Robert Kapteyn

[8E45E]

64R5089 Turquoise 4 speed was completely restored by Randy Rapp of Collinsville Illinois and shown at the Rosemount muscle car show in 2016.

That car, as well as Avanti #8, and Avanti #9 were all present together at that show: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ighlight=mcacn

Craig

[bezhawk]

I worked on both the first one, and the last one from the Crawford Museum. Here is a picture the them both together.

[Avantict]

Does anyone know how to open if possible the photo bucket icon listed in this thread? I have a phonebook account and would like to view the pictures if possible?

Any help appreciated

[rcrall]

JMHO, but
reportedly received a Paxton-Products-shop-built-hot-rod 299" engine which was never stamped/numbered as an R3. Yes, it can be considered as the development prototype for the R3s, but is not/was not an R3 and from those who were there, the engine differed in several internal and external details from the production engines. Ironically, its 299" was faster than the production 304.5" cars.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Ron Hall's Avanti was the 1st to hit 200mph at Salt Lake. I understand it used modified Golden Hawk heads. Don't know about the last Granatelli runs at Salt Lake, but early ones used the 299cid engines that had ported/polished R2 heads with modified valve trains like the ones on my car (R1025, the Hot Rod Magazine R3 road test car). I have heard that the R3 heads and manifold had runners that were too large to provide optimum performance and that a modified R2 head could provide greater output. Perhaps on the 340/360cid engines being developed they would have worked better.

[PackardV8]

Ron Hall's Avanti was the 1st to hit 200mph at Salt Lake. I understand it used modified Golden Hawk heads. Don't know about the last Granatelli runs at Salt Lake, but early ones used the 299cid engines that had ported/polished R2 heads with modified valve trains like the ones on my car (R1025, the Hot Rod Magazine R3 road test car). I have heard that the R3 heads and manifold had runners that were too large to provide optimum performance and that a modified R2 head could provide greater output. Perhaps on the 340/360cid engines being developed they would have worked better.

Yes, agree, the Avanti with which PaxtonGranatelli ran 170 MPH at Bonneville was actually a California hot rod 299" with ported stock heads; nothing in it was production R3.

Your opinions and experiences may vary, but the R3 heads and intake work well on both OEM and modified engines. Even after the best R2 heads have had $2,000 in porting and valve work, the R3 will usually develop about 5-10% more horsepower.

FWIW, the blueprints called for the R3 heads to be hand ported. Most were never ported to their maximum performance potential. From a reliable source, if a buyer came in to Paxton to buy R3 heads and wanted them ported, they were sent out to Joe Mondello and the porting cost as much as the bare heads.

jack vines

[VtMike]

rcrall - Greetings from Vermont . . . on another single-digit temp day in paradise.

I think I read somewhere that, when preparing the Hot Rod Magazine Avanti, instead of boring the engine from 289 to 299, Andy Granatelli stroked it to 299. The thing I read said that Andy wanted that Avanti to really perform, and stroking it to 299 created more torque than boring. With more torque, the magazine car would do better in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile magazine tests. I think I also read that none of the other R3s could match the acceleration of the Hot Rod Magazine car.

Is that the car you have? I wondered if you have any info that would shed light on whether this story is true?

Also, if stroking gave the 299 more torque, why weren't the rest of the R3 engines stroked instead of bored? I would imagine either production difficulty or cost may have been an issue, but that is just a wild guess??

[PackardV8]

I think I read somewhere that,

This is an apocryphal story which continues to make the rounds here year after year. Until one can supply a link to a reliable source where the rest of us can read up on it, the stroker allegation does not agree with anything I've read in any magazine accounts from that time period.

My own source is second hand, but he was there at the time and states the 299" was just the common .060" overbore.

Also, if stroking gave the 299 more torque, why weren't the rest of the R3 engines stroked instead of bored?

Because despite bench racing legend, that's not really how it works. In any case, to stroke from 3.625" to 3.75" to get to 299" would require an expensive welded crankshaft and would also require custom pistons. Since the cost for the stroker would be twice as much as the overbore and the suggestion it would make more horsepower is not substantiated by any DynoSim programs or real world experience, it's unlikely to have occurred.

We've had unlikely things proven true, but this one still awaits verification.

jack vines

[sgriggs]

I thought the 299 cu in engine from the Hot Rod magazine test car is still around. Seems like the truth behind this story would be known.

I agree it sounds a little far-fetched that anyone would go to such lengths to achieve 10 more cubic inches when a simple bore job would do the trick.