RM to sell 1964 R3

[HNCadet]

Just learned that RM Auction have been chosen to sell a majority of the cars from the John O'Quinn collection. O'Quinn a relatively new collector amassed an enormous and highly prized collection of Vintage Motorcars. Amongst the collection list I noted 7 Studebakers, of which one is an R3 Avanti which he acquired on 08/06/03. Would that be the White Automatic Avanti #5642 which sold I recall about that timeframe?

There are two auctions currently listed, the first is Amelia Island, March 13th., the second will be Ft. Lauderdale in late March.

http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/article/john_oquinn_car_collection_liquidation/

[ddub]

Would a factory R3 Avanti be the ultimate post-war Stude?

Don Wilson
53 Commander Hardtop
64 Champ 1/2 ton
Centralia, WA

[HNCadet]

That's a question that can only be answered by opinion and desired use.

(My Opinion)

First you need to enjoy the design of the car(Loewy fans do, others, not so much). Next if your looking to use it as a daily driver, I'd suggest you try an R1 automatic with AC first. If you want a stealth Friday nite crusier, it may fit that bill, however, if you break something trying to impress the locals, your not going to find it easy or cheap to fix. If you want it for it's collector status, be prepared to store it away for quite a while, even if only 9 were made and fewer than that have their original drivetrain. The Avanti specifically and Stude's in general have not been embraced by the moneyed interests that influence the very high end of the Collectible Car hobby. The nouveau collectibles(muscle cars, etc) only became of interest when cheap money flooded our economy over the past 10 yrs. Easy money chases these markets and when it's withdrawn values plummet, even happened to Ferrari's in the late 80's-'90's. Today most of those cars fetching 100K+ are down 40% or more. The only segment of the market that seems stable and/or growing is the CCCA Classics and the ultra-rares, because that's where the money's still at(Banker Bonuses anyone?).

Now personally, I find the most collectible Avanti's to be the Duo Cento, the #8 & #9 Bonneville cars. There you have it all, a Loewy designed car, built by a 100+ yr old American Manufacturing Company with performance induced by The Granatelli Bros. and World Speed Records! Penultimate Avanti's. Great, but from a collectible point..............just mediocre. It's going to take time for our economy to heal and debt to be written off or...........a huge replay of 1970's style inflation. Again only my opinion.

Any others out there?

[billmdonn]

Also a Packard Hawk in the mix.

[Gunslinger]

I think a genuine factory equipped R3 car would probably be the ultimate post-war Studebaker. The Bonneville cars, while possibly even more exclusive and collectible, are not factory cars. They were each specially set-up...the Granatelli connection is indeed special...but all were changed many times with numerous modifications. To restore one begs the question...to which standard do they get restored to? The way they came off the assembly line before being converted? Restore them to how they were set up at Bonneville in 1962 or a year later in '63. The Due Cento was the original prototype Avanti...should it be restored to how it was hand assembled or as the Due Cento? It no longer has the R5 engine so while it could be made to look like it did as the Due Cento, it would be little more than a clone of itself since the engine is gone from it. They each were different at different times.

Having said that...I'd certainly be happy with any of them sitting in my garage! A factory R3 would be fantastic, but one of the Bonneville cars would be something special! The #8 car is only a few miles from me sitting in a shop. It looks pretty good overall, has a genuine R3 engine, but not THE R3 engine it ran at Bonneville with. From what I've been informed, its interior has been changed, it doesn't have the original paint and a fair amount of detail items are not correct for what it was equipped with at Bonneville. I'd still love seeing it in my garage , though!




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[StudeMichael]

Sherwood Egbert's prototype R3 Avanti does it for me.

[barnlark]

"The Due Cento was the original prototype Avanti...should it be restored to how it was hand assembled or at the Due Cento?"

This sentence intrigues me. I'm not up on my Avanti trivia. Is the original prototype Avanti really that one and was it an R5? What year was it built and is that the only one that kept getting upgrades to that extent? What was the first engine it had? Or, was it just the first Granatelli prototype for Bonneville?

[Gunslinger]

My understanding is it was the first Avanti...not the first production car, but much earlier as the first prototype with an "EX" serial number. It was eventually used as the Due Cento as it was available. I don't know the date it was made but it was probably either late 1961 or early 1962. I would think this is the car that was hand built by engineers as there was a strike going on and had to be sneaked out of the plant to the testing grounds. At least that's my memory of reading the history. I have no idea what was the original engine it was equipped with...I've never seen any mention of that. Some early Avanti photos show painted valve covers rather than chrome...whether that was this particular car or a different prototype may not know be known. Prototypes show a variety of interior differences from production cars as well. They also had rear view mirrors mounted on a ball socket on the dash as opposed to glued to the windshield as production cars did.

I'm sure that car had a number of changes made to it for testing purposes before it was made into the Due Cento.







Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by barnlark

"The Due Cento was the original prototype Avanti...should it be restored to how it was hand assembled or at the Due Cento?"

This sentence intrigues me. I'm not up on my Avanti trivia. Is the original prototype Avanti really that one and was it an R5? What year was it built and is that the only one that kept getting upgrades to that extent? What was the first engine it had? Or, was it just the first Granatelli prototype for Bonneville?

There is a short thread on it over at the AOAI forum...

http://www.aoai.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1037

Dick Bennett owns it and calls it "1962 EX2942 Prototype/Due Cento"

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[barnlark]

Thanks, Dick. That was the EX # I was looking for. [8D]

[clonelark]

Isn't this one in a museum.

[barnlark]

Which Avanti was that one on the cover?

[Avantidon]

The above picture was taken during the 2007 International meet in South Bend. The Avanti is the car given to Roger Ward for his win in 1962. The car was brought to the meet by his son from CA. The Indy car was was taken from the Track's Museum and was the won Roger Ward drove to victory in 1962. The car given to Mr. Ward is an R-1 and has been ultimately sold by his son

[WCP]

Getting back to the original topic, can someone determine the serial no. of the auction car? or a picture?

[HNCadet]

I would suggest contacting RM as they are the contracted Auction House and would have that data. I only suggested it was 5642 because of the date of acquisition and the prior sale date of 5642.