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geojerry
12-24-2009, 12:03 PM
Plan to acquire early next year a trailer ( open, all metal, dualwheel/elect brakes etc. ) for long trips to show the 63 GT Hawk or 78 Avanti II. Below is the pic of my 1998 21 ft. Chinook with V10 Ford Triton engine, trailer hitch towing capacity of 5,000 lbs. The gas mileage is terrible - about 8 mpg when towing.

Is an 18 ft. trailer sufficient enough or go larger ???
Any lessons leaned from towing a Stude would be helpfull.

Thx,

Jerry

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o13/geojerry/015_15.jpg

JBOYLE
12-24-2009, 12:20 PM
I can't help you but please let me know how it goes.
I'm thinking of getting a Dodge Sprinter/Freightliner/Mercedes-based Class B powered by a turbo diesel that also has a 5000 lbs tow rating and was also thinking about getting an open trailer for the Avanti.

BTW: anyone know if those tow numbers are optomistic or is there a "fudge factor" built in?
I'd like to tow my enclosed trailer with the Bearcat, but that is pushing 6000 lbs.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Dick Steinkamp
12-24-2009, 12:57 PM
I think you are going to be over capacity.

I have a fairly new 18' car carrier trailer (16' + 2' dovetail). It weighs right at 2,000. Both your Hawk and your Avanti are over 3000.

The trailer will be long enough. I have hauled Hawks and Avantis on mine. They fit just fine on the 16' flat portion of the trailer with room fore and aft.

I would recommend one with a dovetail and 5' ramps. It makes it possible to load low cars or ones with long overhangs.

Here is my Starliner (same wheelbase as your Hawk) on my trailer...

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_2305.jpg


Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg

StudeRich
12-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Wow! this is going to be the most radical comparison EVER! [^]

1. You have a Dodge Sprinter with a Mercedes Diesel what under the hood?

2. You have a Ford Triton gasoline V10! Wow, plenty of POWER!

I can see how the springs, Chassis and Brakes of either would be rated at 5000 Lbs. towing cap. but what about the ENGINES?

Just how much HP does a Mercedes 4 Cyl.?, or 6 Cyl ? Diesel have? [?]

Will that be like driving a loaded 4 Cyl. Isuzu Diesel Cargo van up a hill? [xx(] :(

StudeRich

COMMANDERPINK1
12-24-2009, 01:19 PM
I have two car trailers one is 16' all steel dove tail with the center open-- meaning that the only deck surface is where the tires run up on. This one weight is only 1650lbs, the second trailer I have is 18' dove tail with a full wood deck weight is around 2200lbs, Both work great, suggestion would be that you get a trailer that the fenders are not so tall that you can not open your car doors while loaded on the trailer.

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx240/TOMLSEXTON/Iowa036.jpg

okc63avanti
12-24-2009, 01:27 PM
The U-haul type dual axle car trailers weight 1500 lbs. An Avanti is approx. 3500 that's right at your weight limit. I pulled my Avanti with a U-haul dual axle from Tulsa to OKC (120 Miles) with my Ford F-150 (4.6 L V-8) and had to do it with OD turned off and keeping speed down to 55 on grades. When I pulled it 1000 miles to Ohio to Myers Studebaker for restoration I rented a 3/4 ton Chevy Duramax diesel and managed 15~18 MPG.

Your best choice for long distance hauling is a diesel PU and right now you can buy a brand new one for $10K to $15K off the sticker price here in OKC.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

geojerry
12-24-2009, 01:36 PM
My 5,000 towing capacity on the motorhome is too dangerous to attempt.
Probably easier to rent a pick-up with a trailer from u-haul for the few trips I plan in 2010.

53k
12-24-2009, 03:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by JBOYLE

I can't help you but please let me know how it goes.
I'm thinking of getting a Dodge Sprinter/Freightliner/Mercedes-based Class B powered by a turbo diesel that also has a 5000 lbs tow rating and was also thinking about getting an open trailer for the Avanti.
BTW: anyone know if those tow numbers are optomistic or is there a "fudge factor" built in?
I'd like to tow my enclosed trailer with the Bearcat, but that is pushing 6000 lbs.

You need to look at the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of the Class B. This is the number set by the manufacturer as the maximum weight allowable, including towed vehicles. Most RVs are advertised at empty weight (to make them look better). When you add water, fuel, food, personal items, weight of passengers and such, you may not have 5,000 pounds left for towing. Experienced RVers usually reduce the stated towing rating by about 25% to get a "real" number.



Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia. '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Daytona convertible, '53 Commander Starliner, Museum R-4 engine, '62 Gravely Model L, '72 Gravely Model 430

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%20broken%20circle.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20002.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20004.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20006.jpg

starliner62
12-24-2009, 04:03 PM
The Mercedes/Dodge Sprinters have 5 cylinder turbo diesels in them. The torque is pretty impressive. I currently have about 20 of them in my fleet a Fedex. They seem to take alot of abuse and have more power that I thought they would.

Jamie McLeod
Hope Mills, NC

geojerry
12-24-2009, 06:14 PM
Like the setup Dick has on his Starliner. What is your trucks towing max capacity?

Fla. is flat, no hills anywhere, could get by at 5,000 lbs.
How bad is highway travel on our vehicles with Interstate driving and rocks/debri kicked up on our front end windshield and body ?

Plan to trailer the Avanti - AFTER WINTER - to Myer's shop in Duncan Falls, Ohio to do the lowering of the front unless someone knows a qualified shop in Fla. that can do the job.

Jerry

Dick Steinkamp
12-24-2009, 06:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by geojerry

Like the setup Dick has on his Starliner. What is your trucks towing max capacity?




It's a half ton pickup. It has the factory trailer towing package (lower axle ratio, engine oil cooler, tires, shocks, hitch). It is rated at 6,000 to tow. A 3/4 ton longer wheelbase pickup would be better and safer.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg

sweetolbob
12-24-2009, 07:17 PM
I think OKC John is close.
Another option you may want to think about is to just rent a U-Haul trailer. They are $55/day and you can drag them anywhere. A quality auto trailer is not an inexpensive item

This is the rig than I picked up the 83 Avanti with in Vermont. 1450 miles in two days in air conditioned comfort at 69 MPH on cruise control in overdrive. Of course the tow rig is my son's 8.1 liter/Allison trannied GMC crew cab. I won't argue about a diesel though

Even if you decide to buy please look at a U-Haul trailer as it is setup great for towing cars. The Drivers side fender is hinged to drop sideways for entry. Massive tires, great brakes and tows dead straight.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/018.jpg?t=1261703177

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

mbstude
12-24-2009, 07:25 PM
One of the best Stude mechanics I know lives in Tallahassee. Shoot me a message through the forum and I'll put you in touch with him.

He did at least one total, complete front end rebuild on an Avanti II this year. He knows his stuff.

Matthew Burnette
Your Friendly Stude Trim Bender
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/th_mouldinnnnn001-1.jpg

jlmccuan
12-24-2009, 09:52 PM
I've found towing caps more related to controlling and stopping than getting moving. A good weight transfer hitch, sway control, and dead reliable brakes on both trailer and tow vehicle go a long way to making a trip less stressful. Don't skimp on trailer tires, either !! Seems cheap tires are easily justified by the "I only use it a few times a year." Even in mountains, going up may be slow with less power, but it beats the daylights out of your load passing you while on the way down.

Jim
Often in error, never in doubt
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

okc63avanti
12-24-2009, 10:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by sweetolbob

I think OKC John is close.
Another option you may want to think about is to just rent a U-Haul trailer. They are $55/day and you can drag them anywhere. A quality auto trailer is not an inexpensive item

This is the rig than I picked up the 83 Avanti with in Vermont. 1450 miles in two days in air conditioned comfort at 69 MPH on cruise control in overdrive. Of course the tow rig is my son's 8.1 liter/Allison trannied GMC crew cab. I won't argue about a diesel though

Even if you decide to buy please look at a U-Haul trailer as it is setup great for towing cars. The Drivers side fender is hinged to drop sideways for entry. Massive tires, great brakes and tows dead straight.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/018.jpg?t=1261703177

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814


I'm sure the Ford Navistar and Dodge Cummins are great but the Chevy Silverado Duramax with Allison auto trans was simply amazing. I could pull 70~75 MPH in OD (6th gear) up the steepest of grades and it never down shifted or even new the trailer and Avanti were behind me, I don't know how mpg would be with Ford or Dodge diesels but the Chevy was getting 15~18 mpg.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
12-24-2009, 10:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by jlmccuan

I've found towing caps more related to controlling and stopping than getting moving. A good weight transfer hitch, sway control, and dead reliable brakes on both trailer and tow vehicle go a long way to making a trip less stressful.



...and make it FOUR wheel brakes on the trailer. It's the law in some states and probably should be in all. Also don't forget the break-away kit.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg

geojerry
12-25-2009, 08:16 AM
Like Bob's setup with that uhaul trailer and his Avanti.

What is the recommended strap tie-downs on the Avanti front and back?
Also, does uhaul provide the break-away option ?

41 Frank
12-25-2009, 09:25 AM
Like Dick says, brakes on both axles are a good safety item and required in quite a few states now on tandem axle trailers. I added brakes on the second axle on my open trailer,it cost me around $150.00 for all the stuff to do it.


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by jlmccuan

I've found towing caps more related to controlling and stopping than getting moving. A good weight transfer hitch, sway control, and dead reliable brakes on both trailer and tow vehicle go a long way to making a trip less stressful.



...and make it FOUR wheel brakes on the trailer. It's the law in some states and probably should be in all. Also don't forget the break-away kit.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg


Frank van Doorn
Omaha, Ne.
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

sweetolbob
12-25-2009, 09:39 AM
Geojerry

The U-haul trailer comes with straps that cover the front wheels and rachet down to hold the vehicle. They are as heavy as I've seen on a trailer. With the straps in place the vehicles front wheels are hard against stops on the front of the trailer bed. There placement allows for a lot on length in front of the wheels (overhang). If you look at the picture, you will see part of the straps on the drivers side wheel. I checked them every stop and they never needed to be tightened on the entire trip.

It has safety chains front and back that hook to the vehicle and long ramps that store in the trailer base.

The one addition I had to make is the diagonal strap on the rear of the Avanti. It's the yellow rachet strap on the rear of the car. The car wants to shift to the right when you hit the rough portions of the freeways. I assume it's because the roads drop off slightly to the shoulder.

I think the "Break away option" Dick spoke about is the cable that hooks to the tow vehicle hitch and sets the trailer brakes if the trailer breaks away. In that case yes.

I also went to the local trailer dealer before I picked up the trailer and bought the best forged trailer hitch insert and ball that they had. 12,000# rated and $40 to buy. I'm not going to lose Thousands of dollars and hurt other folks for a $19 Walmart special.

As I said before, Go to the closest U-Haul operation that has auto trailers and look at one of those. It is what a heavy duty auto trailer should look like.

As an aside, The dealers tend to get glassy-eyed when you tell them you want to tow an Avanti. In fact I've heard of folks having difficulty renting trailers as the Studebaker vehicles are not listed in the catalog. Just tell them it's for an 83 Monte Carlo, but you didn't hear it from me.;) I would also recommend their $40 insurance on the trailer. I asked what it covers and he said anything with the trailer. So if you break down and leave the trailer, their problem if insured with the $40. If not, you are responsible for every expense. I know my auto insurance will cover everything but the time, hassle and lower blood pressure are worth more than the $40. OOPS, that may have cost me membership in the CASO club.:D

Here's a shot of the front.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/017.jpg?t=1261756466

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

bams50
12-25-2009, 10:22 AM
Couple additional thoughts:

U-Haul- Around here at least it's getting nearly impossible to rent a trailer from U-Haul. Even with a 3/4 ton pickup they don't want you to tow much more than a compact. I think the point is they want to rent you one of their big trucks to tow it with. It seems the way most people do it these days is lie about the truck they're using and lying about the load (Yeah, I got a Ford F350. What's the load? 60 Falcon with no engine[:I])... I guess they don't police it that hard, it's mostly to have it on record so they can say "Hey, we're not liable, you didn't say anything about an Avanti, you said Falcon!" if there's an accident. Good luck...

Regardless of what trailer you use, please: Do not tie your car down by the frame! It's abusive and stressful to the suspension; can easily loosen on rough roads; and best of all, will damage flimsy Studebaker frames. ALWAYS tie down with straps over the tires.



Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
GOD BLESS AMERICA

geojerry
12-25-2009, 10:26 AM
Found the motorhome gross weight sticker:

It says GVWR max = 10,500 ( with 2 people and gas and water)
GVWR Max + Trailer = 18,500 lbs.

Tongue wgt Trailer Hitch built-in rated at 800 lb capacity

Appears to me I have 8,000 lbs leadway for Avantii II + 16 ft. Trailer from uhaul. That might be ok.

Is this ok team ?

bams50
12-25-2009, 11:18 AM
I would do it without worries- as long as you have good trailer brakes.

One note- that engine works hard already with just the vehicle and load. When you add the car and trailer it will be OK but you will have to be patient with it. Build up to speed gradually and let it seek it's own pace up hills. Turn off O/D and if it wants to downshift let off the throttle some. If it's a steep grade downshift it one gear to keep RPMs up, but don't over-rev.

These steps will protect the engine and trans. from over-stressing (and overheating), and they'll last much longer.

On level roads you'll be fine at highway speeds provided you've got the load balanced right. The high stress to the equipment comes from climbing up to, and maintaining, speed.

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
GOD BLESS AMERICA

bob40
12-25-2009, 11:26 AM
When looking at trailers check to see if the fenders are removable.Quite a few have that option these days and it really comes in handy.

Dick Steinkamp
12-25-2009, 11:37 AM
If your trailer hitch is rated for 5000 #, THAT'S your limit. To tow to the vehicle's limit, you'd have to upgrade your hitch.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg

Thomas63R2
12-25-2009, 12:31 PM
I've rented and liked the U-haul car trailer. My local U-Haul even seems to find the 1963 Studebaker Avanti on their computer list just fine. I always tell them "1963 Studebaker", they pull that up and Avanti is the first model in the sub list.

The U-Haul car hauler is a well researched design - and I can guarantee you that their current versions definitely weigh more than 1,500 lbs. No aluminum or weight saving materials anywhere, closer to 2,000 lbs empty trailer weight.

Pay attention to your your hitch receiver, you may need to flip the ball over to get a level loaded trailer. I bring a 1-1/2" socket on a 3/4' drive 2' breaker bar when I go to load up the car hauler. I've noticed that a lot of the hitch balls are mounted on the low side of the receiver and if you leave it that way you may end up with the front of the trailer in a nose dive and poor handling on the highway.

Also - its a really good idea to inspect everything every 100 - 200 miles. I have had "surprises" pop up as a rare event, and its good to catch before disaster or damage occur.

Thomas

65cruiser
12-25-2009, 08:07 PM
Okay, I'm a motorhome guy from way back. You need to weigh your motorhome FULLY LOADED with gear, water, passengers, anything else you are going to carry and make sure the weight is correct.

Have you ever thought about towing the Studebaker 4-down? I've been told that it can be done.

Mark


quote:Originally posted by geojerry

Found the motorhome gross weight sticker:

It says GVWR max = 10,500 ( with 2 people and gas and water)
GVWR Max + Trailer = 18,500 lbs.

Tongue wgt Trailer Hitch built-in rated at 800 lb capacity

Appears to me I have 8,000 lbs leadway for Avantii II + 16 ft. Trailer from uhaul. That might be ok.

Is this ok team ?


Mark Anderson
Member SDC and FMCA
Keeper of the Studebaker Cruiser Registry
www.65cruiser.com


http://www.65cruiser.com/images/studewordy.jpg

Bob Bryant
12-26-2009, 01:05 PM
My son and I took a U-Haul trailer and picked up the Avanti about 225 miles from here at the drop-off point when it was hauled north. The trailer and his Toyota Tundra performed well as a towing combination.

"It's like deja vu all over again."--Yogi Berra

geojerry
12-26-2009, 08:00 PM
Next week, driving the motorhome over to the uhaul super center and installing a Class IV Ball mount and ball( 10,000 lb gross wgt capacity) to the hitch receiver. Need propane so I can get both done at the same time.

They will test a 16ft trailer to see if it lines up and my plug wires work on the brakes and lights from the trailer.

Next month will test out towing the Avanti on a 1 day short trip to see if all ok. Will use all recommendations from above. Since I do not need to run the air conditioner, I may get 9 miles per gallon.

okc63avanti
12-27-2009, 07:54 AM
When I rented a U-haul to move from Tulsa to OKC in 2006, I didn't also want to rent their truck to pull the car. On the online form I played around until I found a combo that worked with my Ford F-150 2 wheel drive PU (4.6 L V8). I selected a Studebaker Lark VI convertible (at least the Avanti & it share the same frame) and it cleared vs. the Avanti which wouldn't quite make it, although the weight of the trailer and Avanti were within the F-150's towing weight. Ten months ago with Chevy 3/4 ton Duramax diesel and the Avanti there were absolutely no issues renting the trailer one way from OKC to Myers Studebaker in Ohio. The local U-haul guy here is one of the nicest guys you would want to meet and he saved one of the newer trailers for me. They pull straight and they have a built in braking system (not sure what its called) but when the weight is pushing against the hitch (spring loaded) and exceeds a certain force it starts to apply brakes. It doesn't do this just going down hill but only when you are stopping and they work great. They didn't under brake and they never over braked. It would be nice find out who makes the U-haul trailers and buy one directly from them.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Thomas63R2
12-27-2009, 10:35 PM
Uhaul is very protective of its engineering and designs, some of the manufacturing is done practically in house under close contract only to Uhaul. If you did ever get any of Uhaul's sub suppliers to cut loose with a duplicate, Uhaul would be very interested in that event.

Thomas

okc63avanti
12-27-2009, 10:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

Uhaul is very protective of its engineering and designs, some of the manufacturing is done practically in house under close contract only to Uhaul. If you did ever get any of Uhaul's sub suppliers to cut loose with a duplicate, Uhaul would be very interested in that event.

Thomas

I would think there are those out their that could reverse engineer a similar trailer.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg