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okc63avanti
12-18-2009, 06:43 PM
Tonight as a lead in to a report on the auto industry. Shepard Smith started his report with the line ....

"Tonight another automobile make is going the way of Oldsmobile and Studebaker"

He then presented a story on the Swedish car make SAAB (owned by General Motors). SAAB only has a 0.6% market share in the US, that's 6000 SAAB cars sold for every 1,000,000 total cars sold. GM lost over $300 million on the SAAB brand in 2008 and they have been unable to find a "white knight" to come in and take over the SAAB make. It seems most workers who will loose their jobs will be in Sweden and Finland. GM has said they will continue to honor warranty repairs and provide parts.

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

Invalid User Name
12-18-2009, 06:51 PM
I can truely say that I have NEVER had the urge to purchase a SAAB. It never crossed my mind.


Doug
Venice, Florida
1950 Champion
9G F1
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/w4jdz/Stu-1.jpg

COMMANDERPINK1
12-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Does Shepard have some connection with a Studebaker to use it as an example? Seems to me there has been some other manufacturers that have failed more recently then 1966 to mention to the latest gereration of car buyers.

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx240/TOMLSEXTON/Iowa036.jpg

1950 Champion RegalDeluxe
12-18-2009, 06:57 PM
I did a 5.0 HO and T-5 conversion on a Saab about 15 years ago.

It had a nice interior, but was a little on the ugly side.

It would have been a nice sleeper.

Not sure what happened to it.

He took it to Traverse City after I did my part to a high end paint and body place.

okc63avanti
12-18-2009, 06:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by COMMANDERPINK1

Does Shepard have some connection with a Studebaker to use it as an example? Seems to me there has been some other manufacturers that have failed more recently then 1966 to mention to the latest gereration of car buyers.

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx240/TOMLSEXTON/Iowa036.jpg

No idea what the connection is, he grew up in Mississippi and attended the University of Mississippi. It's not often that you hear Studebaker mentioned on the national news. Maybe SAAB and Studebaker both start with the letter "S" or Oldsmobile and Studebaker sounded better than Oldsmobile and Plymouth

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

jclary
12-18-2009, 07:09 PM
I remember the very first Saab I ever saw. It was after dark on old two lane highway 17 somewhere between Georgetown and Charleston, SC. 1964 and I was driving my big space ship looking 1960 Pontiac(my second car). It was like a scene in one of those old black and white movies we see from time to time on Turner Classic Movies. An old style gas station where the attendant pumped your gas. Hot summer night with 3 or 4 locals hanging out shooting the breeze. My father and I had stopped for gas and were having a pack of crackers (Nabs) and a coke. This guy in a Navy uniform drives up in a little white roach bug shaped car. The attendant came out to pump his gas (Gomer Pyle like) but the guy in the little car stopped him...took out a metal can and a bottle. He poured some oil out of the bottle into the metal container, then had the attendant to fill the can with gas. Then he poured the mixture of gas and oil into the gas tank of the little car. After paying...he cranked up the little bug and was off in a cloud of smoke. You should have heard (through all the laughter) all the southern drawls trying to pronounce the name Saab that was on the back of that little car.

That was the first time I ever saw a Saab.:):):)

John Clary
Greer, SC
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/HPIM0372-2.jpg
Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

raprice
12-18-2009, 07:28 PM
I fondly remember those 3 cylinder, 2 stroke engines in those SAABs back in the '60s. I drove one and it was fun to drive.
Rog

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
Smithtown,NY
Long Island Studebaker Club

sals54
12-18-2009, 07:46 PM
Those little 2 stroke Saabs were actually quite competitive on the rally circuits throughout Europe in the early 60s. The 2 stroke engine combined with the front wheel drive, (which was rare at the time) made for a real terror on the track.

sals54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/NewSignature.jpg

Bob Bryant
12-18-2009, 08:36 PM
My 1974 Saab Sonnett III was a fun car. It had the 4 cycle V-4 engine which I think was made by Ford in Germany. Now I have another fiberglass body car, but it is a Studebaker!

"It's like deja vu all over again."--Yogi Berra

Jerry Forrester
12-18-2009, 08:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by okc63avanti

Tonight as a lead in to a report on the auto industry. Shepard Smith started his report with the line ....

"Tonight another automobile make is going the way of Oldsmobile and Studebaker"

He then presented a story on the Swedish car make SAAB (owned by General Motors).


Boy, that's a real saab story.[}:)]





...............................................

I am in the process of getting parts and pieces gathered up for the May 2010 South Bend Swap meet. How about you?

Jerry Forrester
Forrester's Chrome
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME
for your shiny Stude stuff.
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More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

Steve T
12-18-2009, 09:08 PM
Jerry--

GROAN. But believe it or not...there is actually a song, an oddball jazz-pop thing, based on that pun! It's about this guy who returns to his old hometown and asks after this single girl who lives all alone and drives a droptop Saab turbo...

S.

buddymander
12-18-2009, 09:10 PM
And a four speed on the column. I'd like to see one of those V4's in a bike.

Milaca
12-18-2009, 09:18 PM
I had a V4, 750cc in a 1983 Honda Magna. Nice engine, nice sound, nice power! I wonder why V4 engines never became popular in automobiles.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/4149448710_41d6dfe9bc_t.jpg
Lark ala mode
In the middle of Minnesota

Clem64
12-18-2009, 09:19 PM
My wife's uncle purchased one back in the eighties. It was certainly different looking. The one thing I remember about it was the hood and the way it opened. It slide forward on tracks.

Dean




CLEM http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/DSC01819rev-1.jpg DESEE http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/IMG_0046rev-1.jpg MISTY http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/DSC00675rev-1.jpg

DKing
12-18-2009, 09:30 PM
I feel for my friends at SAAB. There are several people there that I worked closely with on a GM project for over 3 years and know first hand what they are going through now. Up until May of this year, I was a Manufacturing Engineer for GM and worked on many different programs and one of them was a SAAB wagon that will not be. There is not much work available right now around Detroit and that will be the case where they are at as well. Tough times ahead for those families.

Just another perspective.


[img=left]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SuHaRG4eFas/SevU9Pcl-jI/AAAAAAAACJs/cRB5QokGtEs/s288/DSC01155.JPG[/img=left]
David King

1964 Studebaker Commander
1958 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham (615)
1966 Pontiac GTO convertible

JBOYLE
12-18-2009, 09:34 PM
A friend bought one new (a 99, IIRC) in the early 70s to go to college, saw him through his MBA and law school as well as post college jobs. It remains the only SAAB I've ever driven.
Before the days of electronics, they were goog rugged cars.

A guy at work has used newer ones...the less said about them the better. But even he had great luck with older models, some had upwards of 300,000 miles before they died.
I hate to see any car company die. The car world is a little bit poorer for it.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

StudeRich
12-18-2009, 09:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by Jerry Forrester

More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu


Nice looking hardtop! [:p] What's up with TWO Red & White '55's Jerry?

Are you trying to build a matching SET of Starliner & Starlights? [:0]

StudeRich

fstst56
12-19-2009, 12:13 AM
Well, after Studebaker went out of business my Dad switched
to SAABs. He bought 3 new ones. They were great little
cars. All of ours had the V-4 engines. 4 speed on the
column shifting, free-wheeling and rack & pinion steering.
That's back when they were known as economy cars like a VW
beetle. They had front wheel drive. Heaters that worked.
Belly pans the full length of the chassis. You could bust
through snow drifts and the belly pan carried you like a sled.
Very fun cars to drive and very strong. Our local dealer in
Springfield, ILL always told us about one that was in a wreck
with a full-sized '65 Ford. He claimed the Ford was totaled
but the SAAB was able to be driven away.
I'd like to find a good one someday but they seem to bring
pretty good money. Most seem to be rusted out.

bams50
12-19-2009, 05:56 AM
A very good Swedish friend of mine sells used (late model) Saab parts, one of, if not the, largest sellers in the world; his main operation is about 4 miles from my home. They buy most every totaled Saab in the northeast and dismantle, catalog, and ship the parts, right from here.

We haven't discussed the subject other than hoping (for his sake) someone would save Saab. If they definitely shut down I have no idea what will happen to his business, or how fast:( There will be a continued market for his parts for a while, but I'm guessing it won't be long before demand starts to drop WAY off- maybe a couple years at best...

As for me, I never understood why anyone would ever have wanted one at any time[?][?] I figured it was like Stude people- the need to have something odd and differenthttp://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0086.gif Eric tried for years to get me into a Saab- just never had success[xx(];) Guess he'll have to get going on an expansion into that other Swedish oddball out there- Volvo[|)]

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Johnnywiffer
12-19-2009, 07:19 AM
Don’t worry about your friend, Bob. I have a friend making a good living in the Fiat parts biz and they haven’t imported REAL Fiats since 1982. (The X1/9 came in until 1988 but weren’t real Fiats. They only had Fiat mechanicals. They were designed and built by Bertone.)

You know that just as there are “Studebaker people”, there are Fiat and/or Saab people. They will drive those cars ‘til the last dog is dead. And they all need parts.

But wonderful as they may be, I AIN’T buyin’ no Saab!

John

ddub
12-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Back about 1970 I bought a 2 stroke, 3 cylinder, 4 speed on the column SAAB as our first second car. I really liked it. Very good fit and finish, fun to drive and got lots of curious looks, especially at the gas station when I poured oil in the filler. Sorry to lose another make which dared to be different.

Don Wilson
53 Commander Hardtop
64 Champ 1/2 ton
Centralia, WA

JRoberts
12-19-2009, 02:39 PM
I owned a 1973 V4 Saab 96. It was a four speed with column shift. I really loved that car. My wife and I did a lot of rallies in that car. It was reliable, handled relatively well, and could go through dirt, mud, snow and even ford creeks like ther was nothing to it. I also had a 1973 Saab 95 which was the station wagon version. I have recently been thinking about coming up with another Saab. An older two stroke version would be my first choice, but a good V-4 would also be okay. I loved both of those cars. A friend got a 99 turbo, that I really liked. It was quick, handled great, but was less expensive than say a BMW of the era. I refuse to forgive General Motors for buying up Saab and then watching it deteriorate to its demise without much help. I always thought that all GM wanted was something to comete with BMW and I do not think that was what Saab was all about.

By-the-way the Saab V-4 was a Ford engine used in the Taunus I belive, but orginally was an industrial engine used in generators and the like. I bought my parts from a place called Ford Industrial Enginges of Durham (NC). I could have gotten a complete crate engine from them that would drop right into either of my Saabs.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

bezhawk
12-19-2009, 06:27 PM
Gosh, it never occured to me to watch Fox news[}:)]

comatus
12-20-2009, 02:36 PM
I didn't hear it either, as I am also too virtuous to watch Fox.
It's simply beneath me. I am sure we are all in agreement on this.

Saab had a flexible top-end oil tube that would work on Commandos. When you get to a point where your crossover parts sources are all out of business too, then you're in trouble. Crying big CASO tears.

Those Sonnetts were rorty little suckers. You learned to fear them in Solo II. But you had to remove a frame member to adjust the carb.

Time was, every country had its own approach to making a car. Cheap shipping and tariff reform put an end to that, and something nice went out of the world. In the home market, some English cars had a good reputation for reliability. In the contorted language of alt-culture, 2-stroke Saabs used to be held up as models of ecological responsibility (pollutants-per-mile, is how we used to argue it). I'll bet nobody at Trollhattan saw it as a good thing to become part of GM, untenable as they were when it happenend. And now, this.

Well, you can still get a brand new Viggen, if you're devoted to the brand. And on Swedish roads, they're street-legal.

pdmiller
12-20-2009, 08:05 PM
John, you are absolutey right that there are "Studebaker people" and "SAAB people"; I happen to be both.

I just picked up my '63 Avanti this morning and it looks great sitting next to my '03 SAAB 9-3. I have owned and driven a lot of modern cars, from big trucks to hybrid Malibus to brand new BMW 3-series (which I personally can't stand), and I find the SAAB to be the most comfortable, reliable, and ergonomic of almost all of them.

I for one am extremely disappointed that SAAB will be no more. I have 80k miles on mine currently, with many more to come, but since the day I bought this one I swore that when it crapped out I would buy another SAAB 9-3, no question.

That said, let's leave the Fox News bashing to a political forum. I'm here to learn about cars.

bezhawk
12-20-2009, 09:13 PM
Peter, your absolutely right, I should be ashamed for bashing Fox news;).
(where is the emoticon for impish tounge in cheek humor?)

58PackardWagon
12-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Love Studebakers......never cared for a Saab.

57 & 58 Packards and Larks

Sdude
12-21-2009, 10:30 AM
I remember the first time I ever saw a Saab 96. I said to my girlfreind, "who would buy an ugly car like that?"

I ended up buying two of them and loved them both. Their looks actually grew on me and I now beleive them to be quite stylish.;)

They were indeed a well built Swede. Sad day that GM bought them and ran them into extinction.[V]

Jay Leno has a Saab 92 which was their first car.

Jon Stalnaker
Editor, Hawk Talks
Karel Staple Chapter SDC
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barnlark
12-21-2009, 10:51 AM
I don't like seeing any marque endure a death like that. Studebaker seems to get some print every time this happens, though. Not sure that's always good, but it is what it is.
I've had two Saabs. I will say this- most people whom I've known that had new ones loved them, that's why I even considered them, but very few who bought used ones EVER had the same feelings. I wasn't ever going to contribute to helping their financial situation after owning those two, so I'm not surprised, but it's still a sad part of history to witness.

JBOYLE
12-21-2009, 11:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by JRoberts
I refuse to forgive General Motors for buying up Saab and then watching it deteriorate to its demise without much help.


quote:Originally posted by Sdude
Sad day that GM bought them and ran them into extinction.[V]


An overly simplified view, IIRC.
Far be it for me to defend GM, but the reason they could buy it in the first place is they were in tropble.
By the late 80s, the RD costs were too high for a small independent to handle...(Gee, where have we hear that before?? [}:)]) so they were reduced to sharng platforms with other medium-size Europesan car makers. That started "duiluting" the "pure" SAAB quirkiness.
GM was their best chance for survival...and they did for another decade an a half.
It wasn't a great fit, but it gave SAAB access to technology and marketing resources it couldn't even dream of before.

Yes, it watered down the brand...but what they did with SAAB is less of a sin than the way they waterered down their own makes over the years (especially Cadillac).

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

jasontaub9
12-21-2009, 11:56 AM
Is Volvo next? Ever since Ford bought Volvo they have gone downhill, just try to have it serviced at a dealer and they act like it's and unwanted stepchild, they have no clue how to fix it!!

comatus
12-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Heck, Jason, on a bad day they'll do that with a Mercury. [rimshot]
Waitamminnit, Spyker comes flying though the door with a last-minute improved counter-offer!
And GM sez, meh, no biggie, we already got the intellectual property and name sold to China. And I, for one, am shocked to hear this!

Selling intellectual property to China. That's gotta be like hauling fly-ash to Newcastle.

pdmiller
12-22-2009, 07:28 PM
Sorry I got so defensive about bashing Fox News. It turns out that living in the Bay Area for five years now has conditioned me to defend any and all of my more conservative tendencies, so political sarcasm is often lost on me.

On a different note, remember Ford's relationship with Jaguar and Aston Martin? I guess both would have been in big trouble without Ford, and it was fun to see Jaguar and Aston get back into Motor Racing, from ALMS to GP. That said, an American V8 in a Jag was blasphemy. It looks like the two are doing all right at the moment, but I wish SAAB could get out from under GM in the same manner...

I'll say again, SAAB has some of the best brand loyalty of all current makes, but how many people were ever willing to give it a chance?

And China. Ouch. Mike, haven't heard that analogy before, but it's pretty funny.

Peter Miller

pdmiller@stanford.edu

1963 Avanti R1 4-speed, 63R4810

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2528/4206258065_9620cb3021_m.jpg