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R2GTHAWK
01-22-2007, 05:38 PM
I came across a December 1963 Car Life magazine with an article
about Studebakers at Bonneville and I was very surprised to learn
that a 1964 R-4 GT Hawk had set some records. To quote the magazine
article "Another 12 records, in American Class C Closed Car division,
were set by a Hawk powered by an unsupercharged R-4
engine which averaged the flying kilo at 147.77 mph."[:0]
My understanding was that Studebaker never made any R-3 or R-4
Hawks, so was this a Granatelli special made just for Bonneville?
I think it would be interesting to build a "clone" or "recreation",
as Barrett-Jackson might say, of this car.:D
Does anybody know if this car still exists? What color was it and
whether or not it was a 4 speed car?
I only have one key piece, a NOS R-4 intake manifold, but with
enough information from the knowledgeable folks on this forum,
I think such a project might be possible.
What do you think?[?][?][?]

JDP
01-22-2007, 06:43 PM
Lot's of cars were build for Bonneville that were never built on then assembly line. If you have the manifold, another 10K for the R4 heads and the rest and you'll be in business. :)


You could build something that looked like a R4 for less money, but the dual 4's are the pits for street use.]


64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
01-22-2007, 06:43 PM
Lot's of cars were build for Bonneville that were never built on then assembly line. If you have the manifold, another 10K for the R4 heads and the rest and you'll be in business. :)


You could build something that looked like a R4 for less money, but the dual 4's are the pits for street use.]


64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

PackardV8
01-22-2007, 07:06 PM
Greetings, All,

Back in the bad old days, I helped a friend build a GT Hawk with R3 pistons and cam, ported R3 valves in stock heads and an R4 intake with two 500 CFM AFBs. It really had decent manners on the street in the warm California sun. With 4.09 TT gears and a T-10, it would show you some smoke on the cheater slicks, ran 12.95s at the strip and needed a gallon of Sonoco 260 every ten miles, but it didn't bog or spit back.

Just couldn't convince the stock rods to like going over 6,500 RPMs and he ran out of money about the third blowup.

thnx, jv.



PackardV8

PackardV8
01-22-2007, 07:06 PM
Greetings, All,

Back in the bad old days, I helped a friend build a GT Hawk with R3 pistons and cam, ported R3 valves in stock heads and an R4 intake with two 500 CFM AFBs. It really had decent manners on the street in the warm California sun. With 4.09 TT gears and a T-10, it would show you some smoke on the cheater slicks, ran 12.95s at the strip and needed a gallon of Sonoco 260 every ten miles, but it didn't bog or spit back.

Just couldn't convince the stock rods to like going over 6,500 RPMs and he ran out of money about the third blowup.

thnx, jv.



PackardV8

go-studebaker
01-23-2007, 07:15 AM
Hi,
I dont know about that cars survival, but the 64 R2 Hawk is still around that was used on Bonneville. In 1992 I was in contact with the owner who was from Ca but living in Mi. It still had the numbers under the paint, but was not on the road.

Regards
Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

go-studebaker
01-23-2007, 07:15 AM
Hi,
I dont know about that cars survival, but the 64 R2 Hawk is still around that was used on Bonneville. In 1992 I was in contact with the owner who was from Ca but living in Mi. It still had the numbers under the paint, but was not on the road.

Regards
Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1988 Avanti Convertible

53k
01-23-2007, 02:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by R2GTHAWK

I came across a December 1963 Car Life magazine with an article
about Studebakers at Bonneville and I was very surprised to learn
that a 1964 R-4 GT Hawk had set some records. To quote the magazine
article "Another 12 records, in American Class C Closed Car division,
were set by a Hawk powered by an unsupercharged R-4
engine which averaged the flying kilo at 147.77 mph."[:0]
My understanding was that Studebaker never made any R-3 or R-4
Hawks, so was this a Granatelli special made just for Bonneville?
I think it would be interesting to build a "clone" or "recreation",
as Barrett-Jackson might say, of this car.:D
Does anybody know if this car still exists? What color was it and
whether or not it was a 4 speed car?
I only have one key piece, a NOS R-4 intake manifold, but with
enough information from the knowledgeable folks on this forum,
I think such a project might be possible.
What do you think?[?][?][?]


I think Granatellis switched engines from car to car depending on which model they wanted to set a new record. It sticks in my mind that they also ran a R-4 convertible. As far as I know from old storied, none of the cars existed as R-3 or R-4 production models.



[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

53k
01-23-2007, 02:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by R2GTHAWK

I came across a December 1963 Car Life magazine with an article
about Studebakers at Bonneville and I was very surprised to learn
that a 1964 R-4 GT Hawk had set some records. To quote the magazine
article "Another 12 records, in American Class C Closed Car division,
were set by a Hawk powered by an unsupercharged R-4
engine which averaged the flying kilo at 147.77 mph."[:0]
My understanding was that Studebaker never made any R-3 or R-4
Hawks, so was this a Granatelli special made just for Bonneville?
I think it would be interesting to build a "clone" or "recreation",
as Barrett-Jackson might say, of this car.:D
Does anybody know if this car still exists? What color was it and
whether or not it was a 4 speed car?
I only have one key piece, a NOS R-4 intake manifold, but with
enough information from the knowledgeable folks on this forum,
I think such a project might be possible.
What do you think?[?][?][?]


I think Granatellis switched engines from car to car depending on which model they wanted to set a new record. It sticks in my mind that they also ran a R-4 convertible. As far as I know from old storied, none of the cars existed as R-3 or R-4 production models.



[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

stuvw2mny
02-01-2007, 10:48 PM
Yes, the Granatellis built several special Studebaker engines while trying to garner some speed records for Studebaker Corp. They had some kind of contractal arrangement with Studebaker. They were owners of the STP company, I believe, and Studebaker marketed their products. I think they were also connected with Paxton, but that may have just been a distributorship.

stuvw2mny
02-01-2007, 10:48 PM
Yes, the Granatellis built several special Studebaker engines while trying to garner some speed records for Studebaker Corp. They had some kind of contractal arrangement with Studebaker. They were owners of the STP company, I believe, and Studebaker marketed their products. I think they were also connected with Paxton, but that may have just been a distributorship.

stuvw2mny
02-14-2007, 12:15 PM
More info re R-4 and other special engines surfaced in the local club newsletter. I don't know their original source. A few items from the newsletter are added here to "complete" this thread.

The R-4 Specifications included: 289 non-supercharged, 280HP, 12.0:1 compression, two 4bbl Carter AFB carbs, same cam as R-3 (288 degree duration), forged pistons (vs. cast aluminum for R-1 and R-2). There was an optional camshaft part number 1558819 with 276 degree duration for the R-3 and R-4. The supercharged R-3 was spec'd at 335 hp. The supercharged R-2 was spec'd at 289 hp. One of the popular auto topics of the early-mid 1960's was getting one hp per cubic inch on "street" engines.

There was an experimental R-5 engine which was a standard block with 304.5 ci displacement, Paxton specification camshaft, dual Paxton superchargers, Bendix fuel injection. Red-lined at 7000 rpm it put out 638 horsepower on the Paxton dynamometer.

Paxton Superchargers and STP were Studebaker subsidiaries, as was Gravely Tractors. Do you suppose they might have put the R-5 in a Gravely? If not it would be a good rumor to start.

stuvw2mny
02-14-2007, 12:15 PM
More info re R-4 and other special engines surfaced in the local club newsletter. I don't know their original source. A few items from the newsletter are added here to "complete" this thread.

The R-4 Specifications included: 289 non-supercharged, 280HP, 12.0:1 compression, two 4bbl Carter AFB carbs, same cam as R-3 (288 degree duration), forged pistons (vs. cast aluminum for R-1 and R-2). There was an optional camshaft part number 1558819 with 276 degree duration for the R-3 and R-4. The supercharged R-3 was spec'd at 335 hp. The supercharged R-2 was spec'd at 289 hp. One of the popular auto topics of the early-mid 1960's was getting one hp per cubic inch on "street" engines.

There was an experimental R-5 engine which was a standard block with 304.5 ci displacement, Paxton specification camshaft, dual Paxton superchargers, Bendix fuel injection. Red-lined at 7000 rpm it put out 638 horsepower on the Paxton dynamometer.

Paxton Superchargers and STP were Studebaker subsidiaries, as was Gravely Tractors. Do you suppose they might have put the R-5 in a Gravely? If not it would be a good rumor to start.

StudeRich
02-14-2007, 12:54 PM
I've seen that spec before reprinted in a Northwest area SDC newsletter. I could not believe that the author got all that tech. stuff about the cams, and other specs. looking very detailed and correct, but HOW could he miss that fact that all R3 and R4's except the first couple of engineering test prototypes (299 cu.in.) were all 304.5 cu. in. !!!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
02-14-2007, 12:54 PM
I've seen that spec before reprinted in a Northwest area SDC newsletter. I could not believe that the author got all that tech. stuff about the cams, and other specs. looking very detailed and correct, but HOW could he miss that fact that all R3 and R4's except the first couple of engineering test prototypes (299 cu.in.) were all 304.5 cu. in. !!!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

64V-K7
02-14-2007, 01:59 PM
I maintain and update an archive of Stude data. I've had copies of the original spec sheets, on my website, for over 10 years. As I find stuff, it gets added...
http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx3.html#R3R4

64V-K7
02-14-2007, 01:59 PM
I maintain and update an archive of Stude data. I've had copies of the original spec sheets, on my website, for over 10 years. As I find stuff, it gets added...
http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx3.html#R3R4

r1lark
02-14-2007, 02:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by 55Prez


I maintain and update an archive of Stude data. I've had copies of the original spec sheets, on my website, for over 10 years. As I find stuff, it gets added...
http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx3.html#R3R4


Wow Bob, I haven't been to your site in quite a while, that is a great page on the R3/R4 stuff!!

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

r1lark
02-14-2007, 02:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by 55Prez


I maintain and update an archive of Stude data. I've had copies of the original spec sheets, on my website, for over 10 years. As I find stuff, it gets added...
http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx3.html#R3R4


Wow Bob, I haven't been to your site in quite a while, that is a great page on the R3/R4 stuff!!

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

64V-K7
02-14-2007, 02:29 PM
Thanks, it's been kind of dormant for a couple years. Recently, however, I contracted a large site and am reloading all the stuff (thanx to the cold weather) . Last count, it all totalled somewhere around 7 Gb...
[:p]

64V-K7
02-14-2007, 02:29 PM
Thanks, it's been kind of dormant for a couple years. Recently, however, I contracted a large site and am reloading all the stuff (thanx to the cold weather) . Last count, it all totalled somewhere around 7 Gb...
[:p]