Grill and Hood Alignment Problem - 54 Coupe

[Ora Ashley]

This one is for the pros.

I am now facing a real booger bear of a problem, I just spent the weekend replacing the chrome, script and other trim on my 54 Stude Commander Coupe. Thanks to much advice on the forum, all peices went on - without a hitch. Other than where, I need to eventually, upgrade some pieces with new NOS or have them redone. I was almost there, got it running and looking good!

That said, I experience a major set back when attempting to install the grill assembly. Long story short, I had all new inner and outer fenders installed, and for whatever reason, when I went to align the grill, the bolt holes (one inch oval) were showing from the top. Plus the cross over sheet metal did not align. I spent over four hours fooling with everything, trying to get everything to align up. It has also become apparent that my hood may be off as well. It is a real puzzle for me because the fenders and doors match up so perfectly!

I really feel that I have run into a brick wall and need professional help. Both technical and anger management counseling!

Someone tell me it ain't so?

Oran

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[warrlaw1]

Oran, could you be mixing C/K sheet metal with sedan stuff? That will make a difference. Also, I read the factory had alignment issues when the V8 was installed before the sheet metal. Seemed it fit with the 6, but the 8 was heavier and the frame bowed a little. Hence, the cross memeber for the V8's. I'd love to be there to help. I will be doing my 55 commander, soon. Good luck.

[Ora Ashley]

Thanks for the quick reply.

In regards to mixing the sheet metal. I can probably rule that out. The only replacement sheet metal was the fenders, which were NOS and they came as three individual pieces. The original owner gave me the replacement fenders, which I "eye balled" them next to the old ones after removing them.

My gut tells me that something happened with the inner fender weld to the outer and or when attaching the smaller section of the fender which the radiator rests on. I do recall when I removed the old fender, that section had several shims installed. I do recall reading something in Turning Wheels which spoke to some alignment issues with 1953s - when replacing fender assembly.

Oran

quote:Originally posted by warrlaw1

Oran, could you be mixing C/K sheet metal with sedan stuff? That will make a difference. Also, I read the factory had alignment issues when the V8 was installed before the sheet metal. Seemed it fit with the 6, but the 8 was heavier and the frame bowed a little. Hence, the cross memeber for the V8's. I'd love to be there to help. I will be doing my 55 commander, soon. Good luck.

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[sweetolbob]

Oran

I went to your photobucket site but either I'm blind or I can't find a good pix of the issue.

Why don't you post a shot or two on the forum.

This is probably the most prevelent problem with 53/54 reinstallations. A lot of us have had the same problem.

The bad news is that even Studebaker said close was good enough on a lot of cars. I would have had to do extreme metal work to make my 54 perfect.

Bob

[Ora Ashley]

Bob,

Will do on the photos.

Oran

quote:Originally posted by sweetolbob

Oran

I went to your photobucket site but either I'm blind or I can't find a good pix of the issue.

Why don't you post a shot or two on the forum.

This is probably the most prevelent problem with 53/54 reinstallations. A lot of us have had the same problem.

The bad news is that even Studebaker said close was good enough on a lot of cars. I would have had to do extreme metal work to make my 54 perfect.

Bob

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[Jeff_H]

I had my grills out earlier this year to improve the fit. I got the hood to grill gap much tighter, but not perfect. Most bad fitting grills I see are the hood gap too large. In my case, I had the thin sheet metal part below the grills too low since the air scoop under the bumper has some warpage and the brace that goes between that and the under-grill panel would not fit. I got a floor jack and long 2x4 block on that scoop and raised it a little (it wouldn't go much) and just added some washers to make up the difference. I figure having the grills fit better was more important than that scoope be a hair low.

The normal alignment procedure is to get the hood fitted to the cowl first, then the fenders to the hood. If the inner/outer (aka aprons) fenders are misaligned, I think that could cause a lot of troubles, but it would seem to me more of a case of the fender to hood gap rather than the grill. I pieced together one of my front fenders from parts from 3 cars. Outer fender, apron, and the air deflector (under the headlight and where grill inserts into). When I did that, I assembled the pcs with a couple of screws and then put the front clip on the car. This allowed me to unscrew the parts and adjust them before I welded it up.

I agree some pics of the problem you are having would help a lot to aid in troubleshooting this.

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

[S2DSteve]

Bolt holes on the front of the fenders showing above the grill surround is fairly common on these. It's an odd alignment we've discussed before that suggests they expected the grill would completely cover that flat area. I've had to go back and fill the holes and re-paint on two of my '53-54's.


Steve Hudson
The Dalles, Oregon
1949 "GMOBaker" 1-T Dually (workhorse)
1953 Commander Convertible (show & go)
1953 Champion Starliner (custom/rod project)
1954 Champion Coupe (daily driver)
1960 Hawk (future project?)

[Dick Steinkamp]

Fitting body panels on an early C/K is one of the toughest jobs on restoring a Stude. Fitting grill surrounds are the toughest of the tough.

Here's a few threads on the subject.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21268&SearchTerms=grill+surrounds

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23960&SearchTerms=ute+grill

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[Ora Ashley]

Dick and everyone else,

The link was a lot of help! At least I feel better that my problem is not unique and not a result of me getting into too big of a hurry. Actually, I got the exposed hole down on the right fender to less than a sliver for the upper outside hole, and the other holes covered up pretty much. I did so by reaming out the upper holes slightly with a grinding cone, less than a 1/16th and elevating the lower panel under the grill. But it was getting late in the day and I started questing myself, that here I have a classic car with absolutely no bondo or lead, all 100% OEM NOS for any replacement sheet metal, namely the fender assemby - and now I am beginning to half-ass my efforts? I took it all apart, and removed all the panels up to the radiator, cleaned up my tools and work area - and said to myself, I will take this to the Stude experts tomorrow!

My paint and body guy owes me a return touch up job after I get it in driving condition - sounds like I could sand down and use a filler to get this down to a perfect look - dry fit, have it repainted and then reasseble. But first, got to make sure the hood is fitting right.

Thanks again,

Oran

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Fitting body panels on an early C/K is one of the toughest jobs on restoring a Stude. Fitting grill surrounds are the toughest of the tough.

Here's a few threads on the subject.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21268&SearchTerms=grill+surrounds

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23960&SearchTerms=ute+grill

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[studegary]

As others have said, this is a difficult and time consuming task.
It is important to assemble the nose in the correct order. Also, attach everything loosely and then do final tightening after everything is to your satisfaction.
Install the hood first. Get the hood to line up with the cowl.
Install the front fenders next. Get them to line up with the doors. You will probably need to bring the front end of the fenders up or down or in or out to get them correct with the hood and the front panels/grilles. I never do a final attachment of the outer fenders to the inner fenders until everything is aligned.
I am just thinking of all the time spent on getting the hood to fron panel space small on Bob Bourke's Starliner. On my own car, it just seemed to go together correctly right off the bat.
Take your time and good luck.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[Dick Steinkamp]

Another tip (although I believe too late), is that ALL body panels need to be fitted BEFORE final paint. This allows you to make holes smaller, or holes in different places, or change the shape of panels so that things fit correctly. THEN the car is blown apart for painting and reassembled after the new paint is cut and buffed.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[Ora Ashley]

Thanks to all for their insights and personal experience. Given I have discovered this problem after all the sheet metal and painting work has been completed, I will more than likely seek a solution, short of taking everything apart. Since the hood fits pretty good, and the fender and doors align well.

I will keep everyone informed of my progress or lack of!

Oran

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Another tip (although I believe too late), is that ALL body panels need to be fitted BEFORE final paint. This allows you to make holes smaller, or holes in different places, or change the shape of panels so that things fit correctly. THEN the car is blown apart for painting and reassembled after the new paint is cut and buffed.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[studegary]

Oran - I hope that you are doing this final alignment with all of the weight (engine/transmission/interior/etc.) in place.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[Ora Ashley]

Gary,

Yes, engine and trans in place. After reviewing all the suggestions, links and photos provided by Dick and everyone else, I believe I can work throuough the issues. I need to get the rubber hood bumpers in place and work to get grill surrounds, hood and sheet metal in alignment. I feel far more optimistic now than the other day! I will need to recruit me a set of helping hands to keep me focused!

I may end up with a little bondo as part of the solution, but again, I feel more optimistic than before.

Oran

quote:Originally posted by studegary

Oran - I hope that you are doing this final alignment with all of the weight (engine/transmission/interior/etc.) in place.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

Oran Ashley

http://photobucket.com/54stude

[studegary]

I am glad that you are more upbeat!
Those hood bumpers used to come in different sizes. I think that they only sell one size now. I used to get the biggest ones and trim them to fit with a razor blade. (I am referring to the bumpers between the hood and the fenders.)

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer